|
Post by jasoninsd on Jan 6, 2021 9:13:58 GMT -5
I searched Google last night for photos of Blue Forest petrified wood...holy smokes that's some amazingly gorgeous material! I also "mapped" it and heck, it's only an eight hour drive from my house to Blue Forest! LOL Only 30 hours for me... road trip?!? I'll start packing the PB&J if you'll pick me up on the way! LOL
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Jan 6, 2021 9:29:35 GMT -5
I searched Google last night for photos of Blue Forest petrified wood...holy smokes that's some amazingly gorgeous material! I also "mapped" it and heck, it's only an eight hour drive from my house to Blue Forest! LOL Only 30 hours for me... road trip?!? Oh yeh, and we can go looking for Fairburns on the way back! LOL
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 6, 2021 10:11:57 GMT -5
brian I believe the condition of the poo upon burial does affect the final result. Many of these specimens have prominent agate veins running through them and I hypothesize that after the turd got buried voids were created within by shrinkage, rotting, desiccation, etc. and were subsequently filled with silica which created the agate veins. This phenomenon is well known with petrified wood and I've found a goodly number of limb casts in the Blue Forest of Wyoming that nicely illustrate it. There is often a gap between the wood and the algae that was surrounding the wood. The gap could have been caused by shrinkage from drying or rotting and was later filled with silica. I believe coloration of coprolites is derived mostly from the chemistry of the material surrounding the specimen during petrification. Thanks, [mention]rwa3006 [/mention]! Would it be safe to say that some drying out or hardening of the exterior would have been necessary for the coprolite to begin forming? A crust or rind that provides some structure and strength for the petrification to occur? brian I believe there was significant drying of the turds sufficiently to retain it's original shape throughout whatever burial events occurred. I base this opinion upon the fact that most of the specimens I encounter have their exterior shape nicely preserved and it's obvious they have not been squashed or altered.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Jan 6, 2021 10:45:50 GMT -5
As long as we are talking casts, here are three from Hampton Butte! every wood collector needs this book! Amazon.com - from $70 - 135 From ABE Books $90 and up
|
|
Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,512
|
Post by Brian on Jan 6, 2021 11:40:09 GMT -5
Only 30 hours for me... road trip?!? Oh yeh, and we can go looking for Fairburns on the way back! LOL Even better! If I leave now, we might get there by Friday! 👍
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 9, 2021 22:52:38 GMT -5
Ok, it's Saturday night and if you find yourself on the coprolite thread you probably, like me, need to get a life. Let's study crap external morphology on this specimen. There are clues to be discovered...
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 9, 2021 22:54:23 GMT -5
PHOTO 2
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 9, 2021 22:55:21 GMT -5
PHOTO 3
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 9, 2021 22:56:39 GMT -5
PHOTO 4
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 9, 2021 22:57:58 GMT -5
PHOTO 5
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 9, 2021 23:22:05 GMT -5
I was recently reading a paper written by some paleontologist from some? university (sorry, can't remember the reference) about hadrosaur turd textures. It caught my eye because I think it helps explain many of the patterns we see on the cut surfaces of a specimen, and also the texture we see on the outside. Wish I had a link to share.
Anyway, being that my background has experience with almost every farm/ranch livestock and big game species to be found in Wyoming it's safe to say I know critter turds. Can't say that I'm fascinated with them, but the ancient agatized ones do get my attention. If it weren't for the agate content I wouldn't be too enthused.
The before mentioned scientist gave his opinion that the texture of some hadrosaur poo is a mass of pellets stuck together in large blobs. I've often observed coprolites that give me that same impression. Look at the first photo in todays series and you'll be able to make out distinct pellets that are fairly uniform in size and are agatized into one solid unit.
The second, fourth, and fifth photos show a rough surface that would seem to hint at a mass of pellets that stuck together after impact with the ground. The third photo is the bottom of the turd and you can see the surface is flattened somewhat. I believe that's where it struck the ground and thus flattened the texture.
What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Jan 10, 2021 1:20:39 GMT -5
So, you're saying it's similar to some big buck turds where it's seemingly a lot of smaller "pellet" like pieces compressed into a larger mass?
For those who don't know their deer poop, a lot of times it's in a pellet-like form (similar to rabbit poop). However, with larger deer those pellets can get formed into a larger "conglomerate".
Am I on the right track with the similarity on this Randy?
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 10, 2021 11:31:06 GMT -5
So, you're saying it's similar to some big buck turds where it's seemingly a lot of smaller "pellet" like pieces compressed into a larger mass? For those who don't know their deer poop, a lot of times it's in a pellet-like form (similar to rabbit poop). However, with larger deer those pellets can get formed into a larger "conglomerate". Am I on the right track with the similarity on this Randy? Jason, I think you're correct on this. Domestic sheep droppings seem to be even more so, especially the big old rams. I speculate that the last portion of the hadrosaur digestive tract must have been efficient at reclaiming water content from the digested material because many of the coprolites I find have retained their shape and texture very well. I don't find many that resemble the "splat" that we see today from things like milk cows. The consensus of the scientific community is the plant variety of hadrosaur times was limited to mostly pines, ferns, cycads, horsetails, ginkgos, with the conifers being the dominant species. I imagine that a diet of pine needles and twigs would contribute to coarse droppings. Here's a basic outline of the plants of the day: www.exploringlifesmysteries.com/jurassic-period-plants/
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Jan 10, 2021 11:46:28 GMT -5
So, you're saying it's similar to some big buck turds where it's seemingly a lot of smaller "pellet" like pieces compressed into a larger mass? For those who don't know their deer poop, a lot of times it's in a pellet-like form (similar to rabbit poop). However, with larger deer those pellets can get formed into a larger "conglomerate". Am I on the right track with the similarity on this Randy? Jason, I think you're correct on this. Domestic sheep droppings seem to be even more so, especially the big old rams. I speculate that the last portion of the hadrosaur digestive tract must have been efficient at reclaiming water content from the digested material because many of the coprolites I find have retained their shape and texture very well. I don't find many that resemble the "splat" that we see today from things like milk cows. The consensus of the scientific community is the plant variety of hadrosaur times was limited to mostly pines, ferns, cycads, horsetails, ginkgos, with the conifers being the dominant species. I imagine that a diet of pine needles and twigs would contribute to coarse droppings. Here's a basic outline of the plants of the day: www.exploringlifesmysteries.com/jurassic-period-plants/Jurassic Period Plants Were Responsible For Supporting Life Amy Brannan Updated: November 24, 2014 www.exploringlifesmysteries.com/jurassic-period-plants/When it comes to the Jurassic period most often people are concerned with the giant dinosaurs that roamed the Earth. If it weren’t for the Jurassic period plants however, the now extinct dinosaurs would never have survived as long as they did. In this article we will cover a number of well known Jurassic period plants including: conifers, ginkgophytes and cycads and cycadeoids. The Importance of the Jurassic Period Plants When it comes to the Jurassic period many people tend to focus on the larger carnivorous dinosaurs of this era. What many people don’t understand however is that without the Jurassic period plants these creatures would never have survived. Understanding why Jurassic period plants play a role in the life of carnivorous dinosaurs isn’t too complex; these creatures depended upon many of the herbivorous dinosaur species to feed. Without plant life to sustain herbivores the carnivorous dinosaurs would have been unable to survive. So while the mighty carnivores did not feed directly upon vegetation they depended greatly upon the creatures that did. A Timeline of Jurassic Plant Life What is interesting about Jurassic period plant life is that no new major groups of plant life evolved during this period. At the beginning of the Jurassic period the Earth saw the disappearance of seed-fern floras but the gymnosperms and true ferns were thriving. Of the plant life that really thrived during this period it was the gymnosperms or the naked seed plants that really dominated the land. The gymnosperms were first seen in the Paleozoic era and were divided in to cycads and cycadeoids, conifers and ginkgos. Cycads and Cycadeoids CycadsCycads are seeded plants that are physically recognized by the presence of a thick and wooded trunk and a crown of stiff evergreen leaves. Of these plants individuals of the species are all male or all female and both are known to have exceptionally long life spans. Cycad plants are found throughout the world even today but prefer to thrive in areas that have tropical or subtropical climates. Cycads are particularly hardy trees and can thrive in a number of different types of habitat including deserts, swampy bogs, shaded areas, sunny areas, salt rich areas and even on rocky surfaces. The diversity of these plants and their ability to grow in any number of habitats is believed to be what allowed them to thrive for such a considerable amount of time. These plants first made an appearance in the early Permian era and are still thriving today! A significant number of herbivorous dinosaurs fed on cycads because of their hardy nature, their bountiful presence and the fact that they grow both close to the ground and high from the ground. CycadeoidsCycadeoids are a group of plants otherwise known as bennettitales. This order of plants became apparent in the Triassic era and is believed to have become extinct in the Cretaceous period. The Cycadeoids were seed plants that generally look much like Cycads in terms of physical appearance. The Cycadeoids are separated in to two groups, Cycadeoidaceae and Williamsoniaceae. Each of these groups contains a number of individual plant species. The Cycadeoidaceae include: Cycadeoidea, Cycadekka and Monanthesia. These plants are all characterized by thick trunks and the presence of cones. The Williamsoniaceae include: Williamsonia, Wielandella, Williamsoniella and Ischnophyton. These species of plant had much more slender trunks that branch and cones that are used for reproduction. ConifersConifers are known by any number of names including: Pinophyta, Coniderophyta or Coniferae made their first appearance in the late Carboniferous period and remain a thriving plant family today. Like cycads and cycadeoids conifers are cone bearing. Only a few of the conifers known today are recognized as plants, most of this species are woody trees such as Douglas-firs, cypresses, junipers and firs. There are currently 68 genera and 630 living species of conifer; however, this variety of plant was certainly not as bountiful back in the Jurassic period. One thing that makes this plant variety particularly interesting is the fact that it seemed to thrive as a result of the Permian-Triassic extinction event that had such a devastating effect on many other living things. GinkgophytesGinkgophytes or simply ginkgo is known as a genus of plant that does not flower and is currently known only by a single living species: ginkgo biloba. Ginkgo biloba is seen by many as a living fossil and is taken in the modern day as a supplement. Is it believed that the ginkgo plant dates back as far as 199.6 million years ago to the beginning of the Jurassic era and it currently still thrives. The Jurassic period was a particularly beneficial era for the ginkgo plant not only because it saw its beginning but also because it was able to diversify. Throughout the middle of the Jurassic period the ginkgo plant diversified and came to spread throughout Laurasia and this diversification carried on through the beginning of the Cretaceous period. By the middle of the Cretaceous period however, this plant began to decline in diversity. Today there is only one single specimen of this plant life left living, this species of ginkgo was able to thrive in China where all other gingko plants died out in the rest of the world. All of today’s ginkgo supply was ago to survive as a result of the single remaining gingko species. Species of ginkgo that were once living include: ginkgo adiantoides, ginkgo apodes, ginkgo digtata, gingko dissecta, ginkgo gardneri, ginkgo ginkgoidea, ginkgo huttonii and ginkgo yimaensis. The Difference in Jurassic Period Plant LifeThere are a number of differences between the plant life found in the Jurassic period and the variety of plant life found today. Land plants were indeed plentiful during this historic era however, they were not the plants that you and I commonly recognize today, they were mostly non-flowering plants. If one word were to be used to describe the plants of the Jurassic era it would most commonly be the word “ferns” since many of the plants from this time were similar in appearance to the ferns of today. One of the reasons that plant life in the Jurassic era was all adapted to a particular type of environment is due to the overall higher latitudes and the humid and warm climates that they created. The tropical environment created during the Jurassic period was particularly conducive to this type of non-flowering plant. So hardy were a number of the plants that began life in the Jurassic period that they managed to thrive for millions of years and can still be found today. The Progression of Plant Life in the Jurassic PeriodDuring the Jurassic period the supercontinent known as Pangaea broke in to Laurasia and Gondwana. This breaking up of the mega continent of Pangea allowed for more diversification of plant species and as the continents continued to break apart plant life became even more diversified. The diversification that occurred among plant life is also evident among the superorder Dinosauria. As the continents shifted and moved from one area of the ocean to another the climates began to change drastically which allowed for plant and dinosaur species both to begin adapting to suit their new ecosystems. Discovering the Plants of the Jurassic Age Many people wonder just how it is that we can know anything about plant species that lived so very long ago particularly since plant life does not have any skeletal remains. Plants are not all that unlike the dinosaurs and other small mammals of history however in that they did get preserved. Fossils are any evidence of past life, this evidence does not have to contain skeletal remains and as such plants can be fossilized as well. While a number of plants and animals did not undergo the preservation that fossilized elements did, some were exposed to just the right conditions which enabled them to be preserved in some type of element. Fossils are commonly preserved in amber, animal or dinosaur feces and soil or sediment. In order to result in a fossil an item can be exposed to a number of different conditions such as:
A lack of oxygen Submergence under ice or water or permafrost Extreme temperatures Extreme drought for an extended period of time Extreme pHThese elements can result in plant material being fossilized so that paleontologists and other researchers can discover a wealth of information about Jurassic period and other prehistoric plants! Some of the information that these researchers can find out about plant life from these fossilized remains are growth patterns, population density of specific plant species, reproductive patterns of particular plant species, the age of plant life and levels of moisture in the air at the time of the plant’s death. These fossils can also tell much about the environments in which the specific plant species grew and even what types of elements were rich in the soil and ecosystem where the plant grew. Fossils of Jurassic period plants can tell us so much about the planet in a snap shot of time. ########################### About The Author: Amy Brannan . . . Amy grew up in England and in the early 1990's moved to North Carolina where she completed a bachelors degree in Psychology in 2001. Amy's personal interest in writing was sparked by her love of reading fiction and her creative writing hobby. Amy is currently self employed as a freelance writer and web designer. When she is not working Amy can be found curled up with a good book and her black Labrador, Jet.
|
|
Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,512
|
Post by Brian on Jan 10, 2021 13:57:22 GMT -5
Here I am reading up on the morphology of turds on a Sunday afternoon... and really enjoying myself.
At first glance, I was thinking it looks like a bunch of cauliflower and I guess that wasn’t too far off considering that is a collection of little florets that are not much different than an agglomeration of pellets.
The theory about drying out the turds and pelletizing also seems to suggest why so many of those samples are still in such good condition and have a roughly spherical shape. Unless those hadrosaurs were squatters, those turds may have traveled more than a few feet before impact, meaning they would have to have some structural rigidity to them to survive the fall.
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 10, 2021 14:59:47 GMT -5
The theory about drying out the turds and pelletizing also seems to suggest why so many of those samples are still in such good condition and have a roughly spherical shape. Unless those hadrosaurs were squatters, those turds may have traveled more than a few feet before impact, meaning they would have to have some structural rigidity to them to survive the fall. I'm thinking this also.
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 10, 2021 22:42:15 GMT -5
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,578
|
Post by RWA3006 on Jan 10, 2021 22:44:49 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by RickB on Jan 11, 2021 6:58:46 GMT -5
RWA3006 Here's an interesting article on marine gastroliths. Stomach Stones for Feeding or Buoyancy? The Occurrence and Function of Gastroliths in Marine Tetrapods www.jstor.org/stable/55808?seq=1Gastroliths or `stomach stones' occur frequently in some, but not all, groups of fossil and living marine tetrapods. Comparative analysis of gastrolith distribution suggests a role in buoyancy control rather than food processing. Once accidental ingestion by bottom-feeding animals is excluded, gastroliths occur in most tetrapods which `fly' underwater with hydrofoil limbs, including plesiosaurs, penguins, and otariid pinnipeds, but not the marine chelonians. They do not usually occur in cetaceans, ichthyosaurs, mosasaurs, and odobenid and phocid pinnipeds, which swim with a caudal fin or the equivalent. Occurrence in amphibious forms is variable; crocodilians often have gastroliths, but nothosaurs and placodonts do not. The correlation of gastroliths and underwater flight is corroborated by a comparative analysis which takes phylogenetic factors into account. There is no correlation with diet. Consideration of function and occurrence in terrestrial forms suggests that the use of gastroliths in digestion would not be useful, and might even be harmful, to a carnivorous marine tetrapod. Gastroliths are more efficient than skeletal bone (as in pachyostosis) in terms of sinking force per unit of added mass or volume. As well as driftwood and ice, marine tetrapods should be considered as a potential source of erratic stones in freshwater and marine sediments. Gastroliths may have evolved by the accidental ingestion of stones, the retention into adulthood of stones used by juveniles to process insect or plant food, or as a compensatory replacement for dense bones habitually filling the stomach. Their presence or absence should be more carefully recorded and further studies should be carried out on their function.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Jan 11, 2021 7:30:30 GMT -5
|
|