Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on Apr 16, 2021 7:02:50 GMT -5
Gotta love where the twists and turns of the conversation on this thread can lead. It's now getting more clear why I've found literally "rivers of coprolite" on some hill sides. All that was probably required was an area with a bunch of hadrosaurs that got a flash flood or an ash fall, or some other burial event, and bingo, there's a bunch of turds covered with dirt just waiting to petrify. This is by far my favorite thread here! I never know what to expect when I open it up. If only 1 in 80 million T. Rex fossilized, just imagine what that number would look like for poop even if the number of turds outnumbers actual dinosaurs by a factor of thousands. It’s no wonder you find clusters of coprolites given the low chances of poop petrifying in the first place. It probably would require a relatively unique event that would affect an entire area.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 16, 2021 9:20:32 GMT -5
Here's another average specimen that is probably destined for the tourist market.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 17, 2021 9:40:03 GMT -5
Here's a specimen where a gastrolith is well embedded, yet visible. I feel confident this stone was expelled along with the fecal matter instead of being smashed into it upon impact with the ground. What do you think, and why?
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Post by RickB on Apr 17, 2021 13:30:51 GMT -5
A defecated work of art with a hand used as a pallet.
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wpotterw
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2016
Posts: 421
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Post by wpotterw on Apr 17, 2021 16:04:01 GMT -5
Here's a specimen where a gastrolith is well embedded, yet visible. I feel confident this stone was expelled along with the fecal matter instead of being smashed into it upon impact with the ground. What do you think, and why? Concur because its not on the flattest side
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 17, 2021 17:08:57 GMT -5
Concur because its not on the flattest side [/quote] Makes sense to me. I've noticed many, but not all of these coprolites have a flat side and it seems reasonable to me that is where the mass impacted the ground.
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on Apr 17, 2021 19:58:12 GMT -5
That would have been my guess as well. It also looks like it is contained within a concavity, which means it would have had to hit a rock sitting on a little outcrop to become embedded like that.
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 17, 2021 19:58:13 GMT -5
Here's a specimen where a gastrolith is well embedded, yet visible. I feel confident this stone was expelled along with the fecal matter instead of being smashed into it upon impact with the ground. What do you think, and why? The deciding factor for me is the smooth exterior to the stone. If poop was known for being plopped down and picking up stones upon the plop, then I would think the vast majority of the stones would have jagged exteriors...but they don't. I don't think I've seen one example from you of one of these rocks within the coprolite that wasn't smooth. There's no way every dinosaur crapped on river rock...so there would HAVE to be jagged rocks in the coprolite if the plop theory was the real reason.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 17, 2021 23:04:51 GMT -5
Here's a specimen where a gastrolith is well embedded, yet visible. I feel confident this stone was expelled along with the fecal matter instead of being smashed into it upon impact with the ground. What do you think, and why? The deciding factor for me is the smooth exterior to the stone. If poop was known for being plopped down and picking up stones upon the plop, then I would think the vast majority of the stones would have jagged exteriors...but they don't. I don't think I've seen one example from you of one of these rocks within the coprolite that wasn't smooth. There's no way every dinosaur crapped on river rock...so there would HAVE to be jagged rocks in the coprolite if the plop theory was the real reason. You know, Jason, you are right about the texture. I can't ever recall seeing a very rough rock embedded in a coprolite, but maybe I haven't been looking. I'll go out and look through the hoard tomorrow in good daylight and try to find something. I'm certain I've noticed plenty of rocks stuck into the bottom of turds from getting dumped on them though. I remember so clearly the cows dumping on gravel back on the ranch and it's unmistakable when you see the mechanics of how that happens. Horses, not so much because of the firmer, dryer and coarser texture of their poo, not being ruminants. There are clearly things to be learned here.
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 17, 2021 23:27:39 GMT -5
The deciding factor for me is the smooth exterior to the stone. If poop was known for being plopped down and picking up stones upon the plop, then I would think the vast majority of the stones would have jagged exteriors...but they don't. I don't think I've seen one example from you of one of these rocks within the coprolite that wasn't smooth. There's no way every dinosaur crapped on river rock...so there would HAVE to be jagged rocks in the coprolite if the plop theory was the real reason. You know, Jason, you are right about the texture. I can't ever recall seeing a very rough rock embedded in a coprolite, but maybe I haven't been looking. I'll go out and look through the hoard tomorrow in good daylight and try to find something. I'm certain I've noticed plenty of rocks stuck into the bottom of turds from getting dumped on them though. I remember so clearly the cows dumping on gravel back on the ranch and it's unmistakable when you see the mechanics of how that happens. Horses, not so much because of the firmer, dryer and coarser texture of their poo, not being ruminants. There are clearly things to be learned here. You know, you may have just nailed it with the comparison to horses rather than cattle. You're 100% correct in the assessment of the two distinctly different forms of defecation. The coprolite that you find, isn't in a loose patty type formation like cow crap. I know we've touched on it before, that the coprolite is more similar to that of deer poop...or in this comparison, horse poop. It's a singular solid "ball" versus the "loose stool" of cattle. That being said, have you ever seen horse poop or deer poop get rocks embedded in them after being dropped? I haven't. Whatever is inside that ball of dung had to have been in there upon its egress from the animal and not "picked up" after the deposit.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 17, 2021 23:55:59 GMT -5
You know, Jason, you are right about the texture. I can't ever recall seeing a very rough rock embedded in a coprolite, but maybe I haven't been looking. I'll go out and look through the hoard tomorrow in good daylight and try to find something. I'm certain I've noticed plenty of rocks stuck into the bottom of turds from getting dumped on them though. I remember so clearly the cows dumping on gravel back on the ranch and it's unmistakable when you see the mechanics of how that happens. Horses, not so much because of the firmer, dryer and coarser texture of their poo, not being ruminants. There are clearly things to be learned here. You know, you may have just nailed it with the comparison to horses rather than cattle. You're 100% correct in the assessment of the two distinctly different forms of defecation. The coprolite that you find, isn't in a loose patty type formation like cow crap. I know we've touched on it before, that the coprolite is more similar to that of deer poop...or in this comparison, horse poop. It's a singular solid "ball" versus the "loose stool" of cattle. That being said, have you ever seen horse poop or deer poop get rocks embedded in them after being dropped? I haven't. Whatever is inside that ball of dung had to have been in there upon its egress from the animal and not "picked up" after the deposit. Yes, I've observed exactly what you are saying many times. Here's part of my thinking... (danger zone) a simplistic way of categorizing herbivores is there are grazers and browsers. Cows = grazers, moose = browsers. The dung of each is very different. Cow dung tends to splat quite a bit while many others drop dumplings that retain much of their "exit" morphology after hitting the ground by virtue of their coarser, dryer texture. I attribute much of that to diet. Now let's get into our time machine and go back to the Jurassic and Cretaceous so we can observe what menu options the hadrosaurs enjoyed. The variety was pretty sparse compared to what we have today. Coarse, woody plants were dominant such as pines, ferns, cycads, horsetails and a few others. I don't believe the succulent grasses and flowering plants had shown up in force just yet, so I have to conclude these dinos were browsing on chewy vittles. That goes a long way to explain these coprolites which often have a flat surface, yet retain a shape resembling horse or elephant dung much more than that of cows. It's kind of like climbing a ladder and dropping a water melon versus a cabbage. One is going to splat more than the other and thus will have different characteristics in how they pick up incidental pebbles upon impact. I'm also aware there are other variables that could enter this subject. Water reabsorption in the colon/cloaca, the amount of digestion from a rumen type of organ, or from gastroliths, etc. could steer our logic another direction. I've yet to find significant scientific literature addressing this in the critters that made the turds I collect.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 18, 2021 0:22:17 GMT -5
This specimen is to commemorate an awesome fundraiser auction won by brian and will be sent to him for the generous bid he gave. Congratulations!
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on Apr 18, 2021 7:08:30 GMT -5
This specimen is to commemorate an awesome fundraiser auction won by brian and will be sent to him for the generous bid he gave. Congratulations! That’s awesome, Randy! I love the shape in that one. The bottom reminds me of a manatee or tardigrade. I’m going to be polishing up some coprolites today to donate to my kids’ science classroom at school. My daughter has been studying rocks at school and is loving it!
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,439
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Post by NDK on Apr 19, 2021 17:21:16 GMT -5
I'm so far behind on this thread it's not funny, but I started cutting a hunk of the poop me and MsAli won from the benefit auction and she asked me to post a picture of it. This is the center of the nodule, I biscuit cut it so I'd get larger slabs. This chunk is now sitting on the sidelines waiting for us to decide what to do with it.
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Post by 1dave on Apr 20, 2021 5:29:16 GMT -5
I'm so far behind on this thread it's not funny, but I started cutting a hunk of the poop me and MsAli won from the benefit auction and she asked me to post a picture of it. This is the center of the nodule, I biscuit cut it so I'd get larger slabs. This chunk is now sitting on the sidelines waiting for us to decide what to do with it. NICE PIECE! Limb cross-section, limb chunks? lots to think, thank, thunk about.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,171
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 20, 2021 7:01:33 GMT -5
TURD TUESDAY
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Post by stephan on Apr 20, 2021 9:56:35 GMT -5
You know, you may have just nailed it with the comparison to horses rather than cattle. You're 100% correct in the assessment of the two distinctly different forms of defecation. The coprolite that you find, isn't in a loose patty type formation like cow crap. I know we've touched on it before, that the coprolite is more similar to that of deer poop...or in this comparison, horse poop. It's a singular solid "ball" versus the "loose stool" of cattle. That being said, have you ever seen horse poop or deer poop get rocks embedded in them after being dropped? I haven't. Whatever is inside that ball of dung had to have been in there upon its egress from the animal and not "picked up" after the deposit. Yes, I've observed exactly what you are saying many times. Here's part of my thinking... (danger zone) a simplistic way of categorizing herbivores is there are grazers and browsers. Cows = grazers, moose = browsers. The dung of each is very different. Cow dung tends to splat quite a bit while many others drop dumplings that retain much of their "exit" morphology after hitting the ground by virtue of their coarser, dryer texture. I attribute much of that to diet. Now let's get into our time machine and go back to the Jurassic and Cretaceous so we can observe what menu options the hadrosaurs enjoyed. The variety was pretty sparse compared to what we have today. Coarse, woody plants were dominant such as pines, ferns, cycads, horsetails and a few others. I don't believe the succulent grasses and flowering plants had shown up in force just yet, so I have to conclude these dinos were browsing on chewy vittles. That goes a long way to explain these coprolites which often have a flat surface, yet retain a shape resembling horse or elephant dung much more than that of cows. It's kind of like climbing a ladder and dropping a water melon versus a cabbage. One is going to splat more than the other and thus will have different characteristics in how they pick up incidental pebbles upon impact. I'm also aware there are other variables that could enter this subject. Water reabsorption in the colon/cloaca, the amount of digestion from a rumen type of organ, or from gastroliths, etc. could steer our logic another direction. I've yet to find significant scientific literature addressing this in the critters that made the turds I collect. jasoninsd RWA3006 You are both, hereby granted honorary PhDs (Pile it higher & Deeper) in Coprology from UPP (the University of Petrified Poop). Only here can one read a detailed analysis on the mechanics of embedded gastroliths vs. stray rocks and find oneself nodding in agreement.
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 20, 2021 10:00:06 GMT -5
Yes, I've observed exactly what you are saying many times. Here's part of my thinking... (danger zone) a simplistic way of categorizing herbivores is there are grazers and browsers. Cows = grazers, moose = browsers. The dung of each is very different. Cow dung tends to splat quite a bit while many others drop dumplings that retain much of their "exit" morphology after hitting the ground by virtue of their coarser, dryer texture. I attribute much of that to diet. Now let's get into our time machine and go back to the Jurassic and Cretaceous so we can observe what menu options the hadrosaurs enjoyed. The variety was pretty sparse compared to what we have today. Coarse, woody plants were dominant such as pines, ferns, cycads, horsetails and a few others. I don't believe the succulent grasses and flowering plants had shown up in force just yet, so I have to conclude these dinos were browsing on chewy vittles. That goes a long way to explain these coprolites which often have a flat surface, yet retain a shape resembling horse or elephant dung much more than that of cows. It's kind of like climbing a ladder and dropping a water melon versus a cabbage. One is going to splat more than the other and thus will have different characteristics in how they pick up incidental pebbles upon impact. I'm also aware there are other variables that could enter this subject. Water reabsorption in the colon/cloaca, the amount of digestion from a rumen type of organ, or from gastroliths, etc. could steer our logic another direction. I've yet to find significant scientific literature addressing this in the critters that made the turds I collect. jasoninsd RWA3006 You are both, hereby granted honorary PhDs (Pile it higher & Deeper) in Coprology from UPP (the University of Petrified Poop). Only here can one read a detailed analysis on the mechanics of embedded gastroliths vs. stray rocks and find oneself nodding in agreement. It's one of those degrees, that when you get your diploma, you don't wear a cap and gown...just really tall boots...'cause "it's" gettin' deep! LOL
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Post by stephan on Apr 20, 2021 10:00:55 GMT -5
TURD TUESDAY Boy, that resembles a thunderegg, doesn't it? The leavings of a thunder lizard.
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Post by amygdule on Apr 20, 2021 16:39:51 GMT -5
That is a Demon with an Intestinal Blockage
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