Mavic Mini drone shot

[HankRocks]

Reminded of the Quote;

"If you design something to be idiot-proof, the universe will design a better idiot" 

[jamesp]

Aug 26, 2020 14:22:18 GMT -5 HankRocks said:

Reminded of the Quote;

"If you design something to be idiot-proof, the universe will design a better idiot" 

Spoken by a genius HankRocks.

[pizzano]

LOL........I've seen that quote applied to software engineering programmers.........."You can't out-idiot an idiot".......I guess. On the same platform as "laws/rules were/are made to be broken"..........!

[jamesp]

I guess I run my life by staying clear of these concerns by doing doing what I do on my own property or where I have permission or people just don't care pizzano. And of course not putting others or their property in danger.
No doubt a device like this introduces another giant bag of peace and security issues.
It is surprising to see the freedoms drone operators have.
It angers me that a neighbor was complaining about you flying with permission on private property. What is with that ?

My neighbor has a 400 acre cattle farm, runs about 150 cows along with pet horses and donkeys.
I am excited to introduce the drone to him for observing the herd from his back porch.
He is elderly and very old school but may jump on it.

I removed the training wheels last night on flight #6. The prop guard. This allowed a 330 foot high flight. Check it out.
I took photos of my 2 neighbors each a 1/2 mile away(from my air space !). A simple software change will allow me to 1650 foot elev. !

neighbors:




home and old work area:

[pizzano]

Those are very nice pic's.........that camera resolution is worth the money of the quad alone.

You mention a 1650' elevation possibility with a software mod.........I'm assuming 1650' measured from the ground you're standing on, up to 1650' vertically......? That's more than a quarter mile.....which is the rule of thumb we use in our industry..........there are other commercial applications, in other industries, that use the 2500' ceiling standard for UAV........the exception rather than the rule.

I'm going to throw this out there, just for clarification and by no means meant to be authoritative.........:

The current "law" regulated by the FAA for all (commercial and hobby grade UAV craft) is 400'........unless applied to certified and licensed commercial application. Then, the limits are based on application, location, proximity to established flight zones within urban and metropolitan environments. Rural locations outside of Govt. regulated lands have a few compromises but 400' is still the limit. And of course, public lands (City, County, State, Federal maintained environments) each have their own set of airspace/flight zone limitations and restrictions.

There are a couple of good reasons the 400' vertical restriction has been applied, particularly intended for the hobby, recreation flyers. Technically, no UAV craft should be operated without two sets of eyes onboard. One set monitoring the remote viewing (FPV) device and one set monitoring the craft and flight surroundings........at all times. A physical clear line of sight, once in the air, should be available at all times. This goes for fixed wing, helicopters and "drones".

The restriction is based on the physical ability to clearly maintain visible contact with the craft (a shit load of studies have been done on this.....so it's Gospel and not debated by serious users). The size, speed and altitude of the craft will dictate orientation and recovery (reaction) time spans. Obviously, the smaller the craft is and the speed at which it travels, can/will leave a line of sight quickly, giving one less time to react to surprises. Regardless of all of the bells and whistles the craft may provide, the pilot is responsible for and should have, the ability to override everything manually and take over complete command of the craft, if it is physically able to stay in the air and be controlled/directed to a safe zone of decent. All UAV have a tendency to develop glitches........it's the nature of the beast.

One of the flight certificates I must renew occasionally, due to age and not being a licensed scale private pilot, requires an hour of completely manual flight. No remote viewing (FPV), only a spotter and pattern plan dictated by the flight agent......take-offs and decent are prioritized. I get to use the craft (the one I use in the industry), I'm most familiar with and my own controllers. The craft and controller are inspected prior to testing.

The other reason for vertical restrictions is, it has been found that thermal (ground related temp changes) and other atmospheric conditions seldom change drastically below 500'.......unless storm type conditions exist......The AMA and FAA drew the line at 400' since most popular "drone" craft sizes appear to be in the class like a Mavic, and the fixed wing 500 class is still the park flyer preference.........both of which can be manually operated by an experienced pilot comfortably at 400'...!

As for horizontal distance limitations for recreational craft, outside of what the craft and controller provides from the manufactures suggestions, line of sight is restricted to a 1/4 mile or until the pilot or spotter can no longer safely or clearly determine the crafts orientation.......there are a ton of exceptions for this related to FPV flight.......mostly related to the location of flight and the crafts real-life limitations........I dare not expand on this, because it's a whole different world with what I experience on the job, from what I practice for recreation..........one of the reasons I seldom fly recreationally..........limitations have become to problematic and restrictive.

Hope this helps to enlighten your experience..........lucky you to be able to do this without so many limitations and truly enjoy what this hobby used to be all about...I can only reminiscence (or get my fix on the job) unless I move or travel hours away to nowhere.......clubs are out of the question.....I don't think it's as much about how you live, but more about where you live and travel.

 

[jamesp]

Aug 27, 2020 14:10:39 GMT -5 pizzano said:

Those are very nice pic's.........that camera resolution is worth the money of the quad alone.

You mention a 1650' elevation possibility with a software mod.........I'm assuming 1650' measured from the ground you're standing on, up to 1650' vertically......? That's more than a quarter mile.....which is the rule of thumb we use in our industry..........there are other commercial applications, in other industries, that use the 2500' ceiling standard for UAV........the exception rather than the rule.

I'm going to throw this out there, just for clarification and by no means meant to be authoritative.........:

The current "law" regulated by the FAA for all (commercial and hobby grade UAV craft) is 400'........unless applied to certified and licensed commercial application. Then, the limits are based on application, location, proximity to established flight zones within urban and metropolitan environments. Rural locations outside of Govt. regulated lands have a few compromises but 400' is still the limit. And of course, public lands (City, County, State, Federal maintained environments) each have their own set of airspace/flight zone limitations and restrictions.

There are a couple of good reasons the 400' vertical restriction has been applied, particularly intended for the hobby, recreation flyers. Technically, no UAV craft should be operated without two sets of eyes onboard. One set monitoring the remote viewing (FPV) device and one set monitoring the craft and flight surroundings........at all times. A physical clear line of sight, once in the air, should be available at all times. This goes for fixed wing, helicopters and "drones".

The restriction is based on the physical ability to clearly maintain visible contact with the craft (a shit load of studies have been done on this.....so it's Gospel and not debated by serious users). The size, speed and altitude of the craft will dictate orientation and recovery (reaction) time spans. Obviously, the smaller the craft is and the speed at which it travels, can/will leave a line of sight quickly, giving one less time to react to surprises. Regardless of all of the bells and whistles the craft may provide, the pilot is responsible for and should have, the ability to override everything manually and take over complete command of the craft, if it is physically able to stay in the air and be controlled/directed to a safe zone of decent. All UAV have a tendency to develop glitches........it's the nature of the beast.

One of the flight certificates I must renew occasionally, due to age and not being a licensed scale private pilot, requires an hour of completely manual flight. No remote viewing (FPV), only a spotter and pattern plan dictated by the flight agent......take-offs and decent are prioritized. I get to use the craft (the one I use in the industry), I'm most familiar with and my own controllers. The craft and controller are inspected prior to testing.

The other reason for vertical restrictions is, it has been found that thermal (ground related temp changes) and other atmospheric conditions seldom change drastically below 500'.......unless storm type conditions exist......The AMA and FAA drew the line at 400' since most popular "drone" craft sizes appear to be in the class like a Mavic, and the fixed wing 500 class is still the park flyer preference.........both of which can be manually operated by an experienced pilot comfortably at 400'...!

As for horizontal distance limitations for recreational craft, outside of what the craft and controller provides from the manufactures suggestions, line of sight is restricted to a 1/4 mile or until the pilot or spotter can no longer safely or clearly determine the crafts orientation.......there are a ton of exceptions for this related to FPV flight.......mostly related to the location of flight and the crafts real-life limitations........I dare not expand on this, because it's a whole different world with what I experience on the job, from what I practice for recreation..........one of the reasons I seldom fly recreationally..........limitations have become to problematic and restrictive.

Hope this helps to enlighten your experience..........lucky you to be able to do this without so many limitations and truly enjoy what this hobby used to be all about...I can only reminiscence (or get my fix on the job) unless I move or travel hours away to nowhere.......clubs are out of the question.....I don't think it's as much about how you live, but more about where you live and travel.

 

The right to operate at 330 feet blows my mind pizzano. What an amazing experience and an over the top freedom.
Total satisfaction and leaves a world of photography and exploration opportunities. Higher than 300 feet should not be a need. The FLY app allows a reprogramming tweak for up to 1650 feet, if this is frowned upon then no need to to go there. But it is astonishing to have a small vehicle with a camera climb that high ! After further thought I appreciate the 400' freedom more and more.
On the other hand flying from the display at the controller alone and not having an eye physically on the drone seems restrictive if staying below say 400 feet.(did I interpret this accurately?). That rule would cramp my desired use a great deal. Why would they scrutinize a drone flying over legal property with permission below 400 feet altitude ? That seems over bearing. Our trees commonly reach 150 feet. I don't think I have ever observed any type of aircraft around here flying below 500 feet.
Lol, down here in these deep southern forests all kinds of crazy activities are being performed. The back woods folks are constantly burning stolen utility cable and blowing up bombs that are scary powerful. I think by law a magnum rifle can be fired as close as 100 yards from the property line on ag zoned property. It must be the thick cover the forests provide.
I hope basic parameters and simple easy to follow rules will be all that is required to avoid any trouble with any person or entity. I suppose not having people around for miles helps !

[pizzano]

James.......you'll be fine in your neck of the woods.......few structures, no people, no traffic and no law enforcement. Buddy flying in unfamiliar territory is always advised. In your case all you have to worry about is the craft dropping out of the air over 150' high tree lines without a clear line of sight to track recovery.....and trust me, the Mavic will have it's moments of signal loss and power outage..........they all do.

When trees or hills prevent visual, we find the highest base point above the tree line area we intend to scout, to launch from.....for all of the obvious reasons.

[jamesp]

Aug 27, 2020 22:39:20 GMT -5 pizzano said:

James.......you'll be fine in your neck of the woods.......few structures, no people, no traffic and no law enforcement. Buddy flying in unfamiliar territory is always advised. In your case all you have to worry about is the craft dropping out of the air over 150' high tree lines without a clear line of sight to track recovery.....and trust me, the Mavic will have it's moments of signal loss and power outage..........they all do.

When trees or hills prevent visual, we find the highest base point above the tree line area we intend to scout, to launch from.....for all of the obvious reasons.

Yes, the remote and rural environment would make it difficult to police my drone flights.

Check this out:

"Chattahoochee Hills policeman Mike Vogt was shot while he was in his cruiser on a dirt road."

My farm is located on Mike Vogt Memorial Parkway.
A new upbeat community moved in and annexed a large section of this rural area just next to my farm.
They hired a bunch of city police that apparently harassed the local crackers one too many times.
Mostly country boys partying in the woods, shooting guns and driving inebriated. An Atlanta Rhythm Section song theme.
One of the locals ambushed one of their policeman.
To this day the police will rarely issue much more than a warning ticket to the local folks.

I was having problems with a meth head living thru the woods a half mile behind me on an adjacent road last year.
As were his hard working neighbors. Many of them local crackers. I heard talk about dealing with this guy.
One of them wanted me to track his movements and where he partied in the forest when riding his ATV.
And 'process' him I suppose since the Chattahoochee Hills police would not dare pick him up on his numerous warrants.
Needless to say he and his band of outlaws are no longer to be found and their hangout house sits vacant.
This house has been raided on several occasions by the GBI over the past 15 years. Mostly copper scrappers, thieves and dealers way down on the end of a gravel road.
Looks like this saga is over thank God.

I did hear about one of the land owners flying his private airplane over Mr. Meth's house and seeing his stolen trailer on Mr Meth's property. I think this guy with the airplane had something to do with his disappearance lol.

Yes there is a lack of law enforcement.

There is a half dozen granite quarries near me. They average 500 feet deep dead vertical walls and maybe 200 acres in size.
Pretty sure I can get permission to fly one of them. Is the drone going to freak out going from 30 feet above the ground level to 500 feet above ground level instantaneously ?

[jamesp]

pizzano I watched about 4 Youtube's comparing Mavic Mini and Mavic 2.
The Mavic 2 has many more features but they are unnecessary for a high percentage of drone users IMO.
The Mavic Mini falls short of the 2 in almost every specification except one category and that would be ease of use.
Yet it does what the 2 will do darn near as well. Well enough that it takes a bit of scrutiny to tell the difference in quality.

My observation is that the mavic mini dji FLY software is so well designed that it allows most any average person fly this totally complicated high tech device straight out of the box with no experience. This is a great design target for software. It takes very complicated software to make it easy to use. Bring a sophisticated gadget into the picture like a drone and the challenge to make user friendly software increase a great amount. This might be one of the best examples of simplification ever even for devices much simpler than a drone.

I have a closet full of high tech gadgets that require too much study and brain refreshment to play with.
If you have to play with a toy every day to avoid forgetting how to play with it the toy becomes a headache.
It's complicated nature makes it a burden instead of a pleasure.

[pizzano]

"There is a half dozen granite quarries near me. They average 500 feet deep dead vertical walls and maybe 200 acres in size.

Pretty sure I can get permission to fly one of them. Is the drone going to freak out going from 30 feet above the ground level to 500 feet above ground level instantaneously ?"

Your best application here would be to locate your base somewhere in the middle of the quarry at it's ground level. Otherwise, if you are based above the quarry's lowest surface and take the Mavic down into the pit, there is a chance your controller signal to the craft will be compromised, but GPS should be ok until you get next to a vertical wall. Being Granite there may be magnetic interference in some locations. You really won't know until you try it. If you are not allowed to enter the pit, find a location at it's edge with clear visibility and scout at 10' vertical intervals..........you'll find out soon enough.

"I have a closet full of high tech gadgets that require too much study and brain refreshment to play with.
If you have to play with a toy every day to avoid forgetting how to play with it the toy becomes a headache.
It's complicated nature makes it a burden instead of a pleasure".

This technology has been around and in serious development for more than 50yrs.............one would have not survived the learning curves that accelerated in the 80's if one did not take seriously and practice the applications frequently, it was a required element of the "hobby". That is why RC helicopters to this day, have dramatically lost their popularity over the years, they are mechanically very sophisticated machines that take continuous maintenance and attention (that's what I started with in the hobby). Fixed wing still being the less complicated to operate manually and maintain mechanically. Quads like what I own, took many hours of practice to master flying and mechanically less complicated than helicopters.......if one mastered the heli aspects, the transition to quads was much easier than from planes. Today, nothing is as easy to fly than a newer quad. Maintenance is still problematic, but everything now is plug & play. You don't repair anything, just replace..........it's the programming and software where the complications still exist, but even that has become simplified with cell phone advancements.

These machines weren't really considered toys until they started becoming mass produced, costs dramatically lowered and available at your local grocery store.......lol.....now, and for the last 10yrs, even some of the advanced models are considered more of a throw-away due to various parts being almost equal to original purchase cost of the craft........that's were the catch still remains.........batteries and controllers have come down in cost some, but one should never go cheap or knock off with that aspect......they are the life blood of the system....!

[jamesp]

"There is a half dozen granite quarries near me. They average 500 feet deep dead vertical walls and maybe 200 acres in size.
Pretty sure I can get permission to fly one of them. Is the drone going to freak out going from 30 feet above the ground level to 500 feet above ground level instantaneously ?"

Your best application here would be to locate your base somewhere in the middle of the quarry at it's ground level. Otherwise, if you are based above the quarry's lowest surface and take the Mavic down into the pit, there is a chance your controller signal to the craft will be compromised, but GPS should be ok until you get next to a vertical wall. Being Granite there may be magnetic interference in some locations. You really won't know until you try it. If you are not allowed to enter the pit, find a location at it's edge with clear visibility and scout at 10' vertical intervals..........you'll find out soon enough."

pizzano, this was the flight from hell lol.

Almost got 4WD truck stuck right off the bat lol, not a drone issue but stomach was pre-tensed.

First the wind was about 15 mph. Several wind warnings. Not smart.
2nd the GE map would not show up. Had to fly by video recognition on cell phone screen. This was the worse problem.
3rd there was a signal freeze when it crossed over the 400 foot bluff.
The police went by twice during flight !
The return trip was much more difficult due to not being familiar with the area.
Tall trees and high electric lines close to landing spot.
The interstate was not 300 feet behind me, 2 lane road 40 feet in front.
I had little battery left by the time I found my truck in the video.
More signal delays than what I was used to. the granite you mentioned ?

Man I would love to fly up from the bottom of the quarry as you mentioned.
There is at least 7 of these 400 to 600 feet deep quarries within 15 miles of the house.
Only one of them might give me permission.

I am the black pick up about mid photo .25 miles away.



Guessing this to be my .25 mile flight path out, return route to west was overshot.



1st video taken in faster P mode, a 2nd video was done in C mode but failed to load.
Also had some issues transferring video to youtube at higher resolution.
Forgot to switch back to P mode on return trip, finally figured out why it was coming home at 1.5 m/sec instead of 8 m/sec.
It would have run out of batteries in C mode. Lots of learning experiences !!

[pizzano]

Panic mode........that's what the P can give ya sometimes when reaching range limits..........lol.........The S mode could be even worse.

Glad you made it back in one piece..............from the sounds of it, besides fighting wind, you may have:

Reached range limitations

High power line signal interference

Highway traffic static

Mining quarry elements causing distortion

Switching between power consumption levels P to C....C to P during flight in windy conditions

Remember, this type of craft relies on battery power for everything, as well as your controller, and you're dealing with at least three to four different signal variables:

Controller to craft operation signal

Camera to controller signal

GPS to craft and controller signal

Element sensor to/on craft to controller signal

Cell phone to controller

Camera to cell phone

GPS to cell phone

They each may share a bandwidth frequency, if one is effected, they all could be........they all talk to each other....!

Each requiring power and are consuming power. If power variables fluctuate to much or to often, signals get dropped or overloaded and confused.......and the pilot gets overloaded and confused too.......lol........panic..!

On recreation craft, all of this micro electric stuff gets crammed into a mixed bag of controlling devices, sharing many tasks, usually as few as possible to keep costs down and equipment parts at a minimum. Many of these are overloaded to begin with, causing heat transfer issues with ESC's and batteries, causing more issues you are not aware of unless you see smoke or smell something bad......lol.......also causing stress reducing life span output performance........these little craft and controllers have short life spans.......around 100hrs before something gives up somewhere.

As you probably figured, everything we use commercially operates on as many independent power sources, signal transfer and band width devices as possible. Each still talking to each other and having the ability to operate independently.........it's not only efficient but a required element of the industry certificates and licenses.......yes, more to manage, maintain and have command of.........but reliability, life span, predictability and fix-ability are priority.

I think it's awesome that you are learning so much and actually enjoying the process...........it won't be long before you will graduate to something more sophisticated within the recreation limits...probably after the Mavic gives up or you become bored and frustrated.....DJI isn't the only good source for this......and a larger (within limits) craft will be easier to fly and maintain under more variable conditions........within the same learning curve you've gained, simplicity, and more quality results......of course at more cost........not a problem for you I'm sure.....!..........unfortunately, DIY, which I know you enjoy, may be less likely, since ready to fly is the better option today for recreation............more bang for the buck and less blood, sweat and tears.....if you get my drift...lol

[jamesp]

You are a wealth of information pizzano. I appreciate the real world education. Can't always get this from books or Youtubes.
I think a large part of my correct decisions at the quarry was instinctual tid bits from our conversations.
Thanks for the insights. I do listen.

You mention the cross communications between all the devices and sub-communications within. I watched a comparison between the Mini and Mavic 2 big brother and noticed the Mini is quite naked and has been minimized to save weight, cost, profile reduction etc. Maybe there is some merit to it's simplicity by clearing up the communication complications.

It still does not register that this thing will do what it is doing. Such an abstract and sophisticated function. It is a combination of technologies that have been under heavy research and development for many years now. Namely cameras, dc motors, ESC's, batteries, displays, mapping and short range communication methods. What an insane package sold cheap.

I can see a machine for hauling a really fine camera reliably for longer flights. A long flight machine like a large winged vehicle would be of great interest. I have a lot to learn about GPS too, and how to use mapping software in the field. I hardly know how to generate a wifi hot spot lol.About the first cell phone application I have ever been successful at.

It helps a lot to listen to the lingo from someone who has a lot of experience.

[jamesp]

I do want to mention pizzano that devices like this start out with great complexity. You were there during development stages and understand the workings in detail.
If such complex device becomes popular or useful to the public as with drones it is made simpler and more reliable. And often cheaper.

The separate technologies involved in a drone have already been perfected. By now they are interconnected well in drones.
The next step is complicated software that simplifies the operation for the average Joe as is the case with this unit.
The dji FLY app makes this Mini a no brainer to fly and use for photography. The app is touted for it's operation simplicity.
In my case I don't have the interest or energy to take on a highly complex project. I wanted an easy to use drone and waited till one was produced.

Drones are still vulnerable to the problems you have mentioned thru your experience though.
Valuable info you have shared.
My buddy has an earlier model Mavic Pro. He is a brilliant electrical and control system engineer. He figures stuff like this device out about 10 times faster than me. In this case I have mastered trickier flights much quicker than he because of this device being so user friendly.

[pizzano]

You hit it on the head James............

Software development, digital telecommunication and GPS satellite advancements changed the game most dramatically........craft and controller electronic hardware followed suit with PC and cell phone development, which had been the leader in micro electronic advancements much earlier. Virtual AI jumped in and made education, training seamless and mainstream..........as it applies now to almost all professional flying and driving applications.

I posted previously, a few pic's of my more serious UAV's (higher dollar and ability required).........here's a couple more less serious examples of toys that friends and family have bought me, over the years, to play with. They all still fly pretty well (batteries are always an issue with these little guys). In particularly, the DX-1 and Force machines are simply amassing for their size.........super stable, intelligent, outside and indoor capable (on calm days).....!

I've been training my 6yr old Grandson on all of them. When I can get him to calm down (panic), I think he'll have a knack for this, he's real good at video games and he flies on my SIM quite often........ya, I have a PC simulator (another required element of the industry), you didn't think I learned all of this by crashing and fixing all the time........did you......?.........LOL................We can discuss that aspect in more detail sometime, if you'd like........lol

It's not all fun and games anymore for me, but my Grandson keeps me grounded in that aspect.......otherwise, I would have sold all of this stuff by now. It's all his if and when he's ready........!

[jamesp]

Aug 31, 2020 11:58:45 GMT -5 pizzano said:

You hit it on the head James............

Software development, digital telecommunication and GPS satellite advancements changed the game most dramatically........craft and controller electronic hardware followed suit with PC and cell phone development, which had been the leader in micro electronic advancements much earlier. Virtual AI jumped in and made education, training seamless and mainstream..........as it applies now to almost all professional flying and driving applications.

I posted previously, a few pic's of my more serious UAV's (higher dollar and ability required).........here's a couple more less serious examples of toys that friends and family have bought me, over the years, to play with. They all still fly pretty well (batteries are always an issue with these little guys). In particularly, the DX-1 and Force machines are simply amassing for their size.........super stable, intelligent, outside and indoor capable (on calm days).....!

I've been training my 6yr old Grandson on all of them. When I can get him to calm down (panic), I think he'll have a knack for this, he's real good at video games and he flies on my SIM quite often........ya, I have a PC simulator (another required element of the industry), you didn't think I learned all of this by crashing and fixing all the time........did you......?.........LOL................We can discuss that aspect in more detail sometime, if you'd like........lol

It's not all fun and games anymore for me, but my Grandson keeps me grounded in that aspect.......otherwise, I would have sold all of this stuff by now. It's all his if and when he's ready........!

My Dad flew RC way back. He would have flipped out if he could see what these drones are capable of. Your grandson and younger the younger gen won't get how much technology has increased in the past few years. Imagine what they will be playing with in 10 more years. Having tinkered with the drones just 5 years ago was another whole era. He sure could pick up some valuable technical knowledge from a drone being that it incorporates so many useful functions. Good luck drawing his interest. Bet you will succeed.

ESC control is new to me. I studied it briefly the other day and found it an insanely cool way to control a dc motor. It is like a form of miniature 3 phase, crazy. I am curious if the ESC causes heat generation because I had turned the Mini on and let it sit for 5 - 10 minutes and the controller gave an overheat warning in the drone. Turned it off 5 minutes and it was ready to go.

You mentioned the small toy drones. I bought a $20 Propel drone thinking it was a joke. No way, it flies impressively. Loaded to the hilt with incredible technology. The motors would fit in a thimble and scream like they are nuclear powered. This little drone sent me on a mission to see what a more costly drone was capable of. Man I got sucked in after flying a nice one. A winged vehicle will be next after seeing the efficiency of modern batteries and dc motors.

Truth be known it is the mapping and outdoor investigating that interests me the most. I would have tripped out if i could do topo and wetland mapping with a drone during my working years. I was going to ask you if you can make 1 to 2 foot accuracy topo maps with the software you are educated on. Lidar would be a dream. The color maps are fine.

[pizzano]

The accuracy of any aerial topography/photography depends on the level or order of work required. All of the most accurate applications require ground based control, which is what I specialize in.

Here's a PDF you'll find interesting and educational.....:

www.usbr.gov/tsc/techreferences/mands/mands-pdfs/SurveyingMappingAerialPhotography_09-2016_508.pdf

After you've thumbed through that (I'd suggest download & print hard copy).........feel free to pick my brain..........Now you're in my wheelhouse.....!

[jamesp]

Aug 31, 2020 18:21:40 GMT -5 pizzano said:

The accuracy of any aerial topography/photography depends on the level or order of work required. All of the most accurate applications require ground based control, which is what I specialize in.

Here's a PDF you'll find interesting and educational.....:

www.usbr.gov/tsc/techreferences/mands/mands-pdfs/SurveyingMappingAerialPhotography_09-2016_508.pdf

After you've thumbed through that (I'd suggest download & print hard copy).........feel free to pick my brain..........Now you're in my wheelhouse.....!

That is some highly sophisticated information in this pdf like an entire college degree's worth.
Now I see why you don't want to risk your flight privileges by getting into a spit with some jack ass land owner.
A full education is invested and too much to risk losing.

I have had to quote wetland mitigation plantings from maps generated by environmental engineering companies like CH2MHILL, Rochester Engineering etc years ago. I only did contract planting work for them. This is where I was made aware of such incredible land description maps. Most likely these maps were generated back before drones were being used for such. I believe specialized aerial photography was a large part of their data collection. But their maps were not as sexy(for lack of better word lol), accurate and detailed as the modern mapping generated by drone technology you are involved with.

I sure wish I had a drone generated topo/overhead maps for this project:

My wife and I were self employed thanks to an 8 acre piece of land here on the farm. Map below. The 3 white lines running north to south served as gravity fed pond/pipe routes fed from a 15 gallon spring piped from a 1/4 mile north. A spring that provided employment by passively feeding gravity flow water to growing ponds and greenhouses for almost 30 years now. Many of the small ponds are only 2-3 inches below the each other to induce water flow. Transit was used. Or a basic water-in-hose level. Then heavy equipment was hired to dig a reservoir at optimum location to dodge trees and allow access/mowing paths between them.

Knowing what I know now I would have hired you in a heart beat to do drone maps before that project ever got started !
Knowing what I know now I would have paid you a great deal of money to do the mapping.
I laughed at droughts, water costs, watering labor requirements, water quality issues for 25 years.
The ponds are attractive and full of fresh fish dinners too !

[pizzano]

I would have loved working on your project.............Today, it may not be as "expensive" as it may have been back when you started it. Less manpower requirements and the speed we now can collect data is 1/2 what is was back when airplanes and stereoscoptic photography were the standard in the industry.............lots of manhours required and more labor involved setting up many more ground based triangulation points than what's required today.

Today you're paying more for the access (privilege) and our ability/knowledge to use the technology........That's how we recoup the bulk of the cost of our investments. There's still quite a bit of initial research and leg work involved, but the actual critical information data collection aspect can be done quickly, and of course, the deliverables level of precision and accuracy required effects cost as well..........Personally, depending whether I was the Project Manager or Lead Tech for the project, the money I would make today would be about 15% to 20% of the bill. If I'm only the UAV pilot and/or field coordinator/data collector, catch-all assistant (we can wear several hats if required), I'd make about 8% to 10%........you need a pretty good backlog of work to sustain a comfortable living at this.

Don't let all that technical info I provided dissuade your enthusiasm or pursuit of knowledge..........That is a handbook of guidelines/requirements we use (it has been up-dated) when Federal or State monies come into play.........nobody I know on this planet has it all down-pat. There are hundreds and hundreds of specialized departments, agencies and resources that provide oversight for this industry. Even though the quality of "standards" are set by the Govt., private development has it's standards as well, that overlap or walk-in-step, but are much more flexible and expeditious. All of the equipment, software and data transfer applications we use today are calibrated and predetermined to function at 1st thru 4th level precision and accuracy.......... in basic terms, we just tell it what, how much and where we need it.....it's our responsibility and legal requirement to test, certify and guarantee our application of such work........the developers/distributors/manufactures and sellers of the technology are on the hook for everything we use.......they must provide up-dates, licenses, certificates, insurance and warranty as well. They provide the real technological foundations, we provide the end product/user results.......!

[pizzano]

We'll be out here today for a few hours refreshing targets and ground based control points for a private storm drain facility............Took 6 weeks to get the permit to fly approx. 8 acres......it's in the Crafton Hills vicinity (foreground).......The old Norton Air base is 7 miles north west and the Redlands Municipal air field is 3 miles north east..........both of which are active and some of their southern landing/approach patterns are only 800' above us. We have a 4hr window to work with Friday morning btw. sunrise (6:28am) and 10:30am........If no go, then, we have to wait another week to work........:

I'll be the Field Tech and advisor on this one.........meaning set-up/take-down prep, video monitor/coordinator, and eye's in the sky guy......!