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Post by Mel on Dec 12, 2020 13:34:19 GMT -5
Couple questions about Genie wheels for those with more experience.
I got a 220 Galaxy wheel and ran it for a couple hours using rhodonite, chrysocolla and one piece of unknown jasper, maybe 2-3 hours worth. Hoping I didn't try to push it too hard (new to diamonds in anything other than saw blades...not even any diamonds in my jewelry). How smooth should I expect it to be?
I don't feel any surface bumps but I can still see diamonds on it.
2nd - Cerium wheels - Are these good for polishing? Is there something better? Will going multigrit and a leather buff with cerium paste accomplish the same thing?
C) - Are the competitions wheels any better? DP wheels are super expensive to find here so if I can save a few dollars, I'm OK with that. I don't mind replacing wheels more often if the price is right.
Thanks all.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Dec 12, 2020 15:22:20 GMT -5
To get your new 220 broken in you should cut a few agates first - before you cut softer stones. A slab of agate with a straight edge would let you work the whole surface of the 220 wheel uniformly. That will help you find, and hopefully smooth out, any random clumps of diamond or the occasional jagged piece that might be higher than the rest of the surface. This usually isn't a problem, but sometimes it happens.
There are a couple of small slabs of "junk" agate that have been by my Genie for years just for this purpose. Start by rounding the edge of a slab all the way across to create a consistent edge, then use just enough pressure to keep it from chattering against the wheel. If there are any really high spots you'll feel (and hear) them.
After you've done this you'll still want to cut 10-15 hard stones before letting the new 220 chew on your softer rough.
It might sound like you're trying to wear the wheel down prematurely, but a wheel that's well broken in and smooth will cut better and last longer.
I don't know anyone who's used Cerium wheels. The oxide polishes are friable, so it seems to me they'd cease to be effective fairly quickly. Probably best to stick to leather (or felt, or ...) that you can add more of you oxide slurry to as you need it.
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Post by rmf on Dec 12, 2020 23:20:44 GMT -5
I have never needed to break in my metal bonded wheels. I coarse grind with 80 grit diamond and then go to 220. The Nova wheels have diamond in a plastic and they require the break in time. the plastic which holds the diamonds has points that dig into soft stones even agates. I use a knife from good will and take the back edge and hold it perpendicular to the wheel and gently knock off the high points. Then I start with the agates as stated above. the finer the grit the longer it takes me to break in. I use 80 & 200 Galaxy wheels followed by 220, 280, 600, 1200, 3000, 8000 Nova Wheels. the 220 galaxy leaves hard scratches and the 220 Nova leaves a better finish and I have less to do on the 289 grit.
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 13, 2020 10:20:12 GMT -5
Do you mean you can still see diamonds on the stone or wheel? Maybe a stupid question, but just checking. You SHOULD see the diamonds on your wheel. That's a good thing.
I like to break in a new 80 or new 60 sintered. They can really chew up soft material. I break them in with a a day of agates, then I will start adding softer material. Of course, some softer material goes straight to the galaxy 220 or even the nova 220.
I have not used anything other than diamonds, but I may give tin oxide a try. I use diamond to 100k.
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Post by rmf on Dec 13, 2020 10:38:37 GMT -5
Mel something that rockjunquie said made me think to tell you the Nova wheels have a black under layer that is under the diamond layer. If you see that the diamond is gone. Galaxy wheels are the same way with metal under the diamond crust. I have been too cheap to try sintered wheels. I have tried a turbin wheel but it was suppose to be designed to expose more diamond as it wore. I found it slowed down after 100 agate cabs. The best performance in a galaxy wheel is 80 grit hex. rockjunquie Try taking agates and jasper to 3000 then go to Tin Oxide ( I use 1lb of Tin with 3table spoons of Linde A) both are about 100,000 grit. This is faster than Novas all the way. I have also found that 8000 finishes Lapis better than anything else I have tried.
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 13, 2020 10:52:16 GMT -5
Mel something that rockjunquie said made me think to tell you the Nova wheels have a black under layer that is under the diamond layer. If you see that the diamond is gone. Galaxy wheels are the same way with metal under the diamond crust. I have been too cheap to try sintered wheels. I have tried a turbin wheel but it was suppose to be designed to expose more diamond as it wore. I found it slowed down after 100 agate cabs. The best performance in a galaxy wheel is 80 grit hex. rockjunquie Try taking agates and jasper to 3000 then go to Tin Oxide ( I use 1lb of Tin with 3table spoons of Linde A) both are about 100,000 grit. This is faster than Novas all the way. I have also found that 8000 finishes Lapis better than anything else I have tried. Thank you!
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firehunter
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2020
Posts: 19
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Post by firehunter on Dec 13, 2020 11:22:24 GMT -5
C) - Are the competitions wheels any better? DP wheels are super expensive to find here so if I can save a few dollars, I'm OK with that. I don't mind replacing wheels more often if the price is right. Thanks all. I've been wondering this myself and finally decided to get a set of DP wheels instead of CK.
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Post by Mel on Dec 13, 2020 11:43:44 GMT -5
C) - Are the competitions wheels any better? DP wheels are super expensive to find here so if I can save a few dollars, I'm OK with that. I don't mind replacing wheels more often if the price is right. Thanks all. I've been wondering this myself and finally decided to get a set of DP wheels instead of CK. This is exactly what prompted my question rmf , rockjunquie and hummingbirdstones - THANK YOU! Each of you have given me ridiculously valuable and useful advice! I can see diamonds on the wheel, but was worried I’d used to much pressure. Sounds like not! Phew! Now to find an agate slab...
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Post by mohs on Dec 13, 2020 12:45:39 GMT -5
I have a 15 year old Galaxy 80 and 220 done lots of grinding on those still lots of diamond embedded in what appears to be about 0.025 thickness of metal which my lousy photography skills doesn’t particularly show what I wanted to capture nonetheless its is really impressive and fairly indestructible obviously the wheel not as efficient as it once was but still as lot grit left to it good value! so unless DP radically changed the manufacturing process which I doubt I’d say in your in good shape --Mel
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Post by Mel on Dec 13, 2020 13:08:32 GMT -5
Thanks mohs . Now I can relax! I can't wait until Friday when I can finally sit down and use it for more than an hour or two. One step forward and 2 steps back!
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 13, 2020 13:19:17 GMT -5
If you're using a genie, the weight and balance of alternative wheels is a major consideration. You definitely don't want to use heavier wheels. The motor on a genie barely has the HP to turn the 6 wheels. Poorly balanced wheels are also not any fun.
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 13, 2020 14:10:19 GMT -5
6 inch galaxy alternative, Top (Lithuania), 8 inch jadecarver (6 inch are steel core 8 are available with plastic core). Nova wheel alternatives, johnsonbrothers. I bought a top but haven't mounted it.
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Post by mohs on Dec 13, 2020 14:17:38 GMT -5
That interesting Lee
I really don't know the difference of the wheels on the Genie assumed they were the same as the Galaxy ? which are quite heavy
I just purchased a new 220 hard wheel from a local jewelry supply
paid 120 bucks for it it to is quite heavy was told that it was less expensive than the DP Galaxy not sure where it was manufactured or by whom?
I can tell that the thickness of the metal that diamonds are embedded in is not as deep as the DP wheels
i suppose the type & consistency of metal that the diamonds the sintered into plays a critical role in longevity
so I expect it may not hold up quite as well as the Galaxy ...
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 13, 2020 15:20:37 GMT -5
I just bought a new Top 80. The third one. I made a mistake and bought a more expensive one that I might be better not that there was anything wrong with the other two. It was more expensive because it has a steel core and therefore heavier. I have a separate arbor for the 80's and will replace one with a soft wheel that weighs less. Jadecarver only offers the 6 inch wheels with a steel core because for some reason the 6 inch plastic are not true enough. The 8 inch plastic core don't have an issue. TOP said that the steel core 6 inch might also be truer and might perform better. They also offer a textured steel core 6 inch wheel that I might order next. I do most of the doming with the 80 grit and like to watch rock grind quickly because I am impatient. I'll sell one of the used top 80 here since they are in great shape with a lot of life left. I have a 6 inch crystallite 60 grit that is too chippy and gave up on it.
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Post by mohs on Dec 13, 2020 15:24:43 GMT -5
variety is the grit of life
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,773
Member is Online
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Post by gemfeller on Dec 13, 2020 18:41:37 GMT -5
If you're using a genie, the weight and balance of alternative wheels is a major consideration. You definitely don't want to use heavier wheels. The motor on a genie barely has the HP to turn the 6 wheels. Poorly balanced wheels are also not any fun. Maybe DP's manufacturing specs have changed since I bought my old Genie, vintage late 1980s. I know the new machines have upgraded to more powerful motors. I've been running 2 steel core sintered wheels on mine for several years with no problems. I do make sure they're balanced - a simple adjustment. I recently changed and am now running 1 steel core sintered 60 grit, a plastic core plated 150 grit and a plastic core plated 240 grit on the left side and the machine runs beautifully. I've had excellent luck with plated wheels from THK <https://www.thk.hk> I think I paid $59 per wheel plus about $10 shipping on my last order for two 6" wheels. My original plated wheel from them has lasted far longer than any other comparable brand I've used in over 30 years.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 13, 2020 19:10:28 GMT -5
gemfeller I have been very pleased with diamond drills and burrs from THK, good to hear that they make good wheels too. I got some adapters and spacers from Christopher and plan to run 4 wheels on the genie, less weight and more space to work. Getting a 2nd unit for the coarser grits, something that'll run fresh water, either a stainless lortone arbor or a sphere products unit if Rod is still making them.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 13, 2020 19:14:09 GMT -5
6 inch galaxy alternative, Top (Lithuania), 8 inch jadecarver (6 inch are steel core 8 are available with plastic core). Nova wheel alternatives, johnsonbrothers. I bought a top but haven't mounted it. A friend in the NW uses the Lithuanian wheels and says they at least equal DP wheels for how long they last. I may get a set when we get the shop up and running.
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Post by mohs on Dec 13, 2020 19:51:46 GMT -5
o.k. guys maybe I don't really know the difference
are the Galaxy wheels plated or sintered?
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 13, 2020 20:08:23 GMT -5
o.k. guys maybe I don't really know the difference are the Galaxy wheels plated or sintered? Plated. They are a lot better than most brand x and pricey for a plated wheel.
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