rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 29, 2021 0:00:19 GMT -5
I have some questions about your first batch. How hard were the rocks you tumbled? What sizes and what medium did you use? Why did you pick these particular rocks to tumble? How long did you tumble in each stage? Did you carefully check your rocks at the end of a stage to see if they were ready to move to the next stage? How did you clean the rocks and tumbler between stages? What kind and how much grit and polish did you use at each stage? What was the most important thing you learned when tumbling this batch? What do you think the reason was that caused some rocks to turn out smoothly rounded and shiny, and what caused the result for those that didn't pass your expectations?
The rocks I picked were various hardness. I did some testing using an agate, to get a feel for what would hold up ok and what probably wouldn't. I didn't even bother using anything brittle or "sparkly" in the tumbler. Having said that, I did include a lot of rocks that I doubted would withstand the 1st stage very well, but I wanted to see what would happen. I used 60-90 silicon carbide grit - about 1 cup per 2/3-3/4 barrel of rocks. The total weight including the barrel was 15lbs. Many of the rocks I chose because I was simply curious to see what would happen.
I have done only stage 1 completely so far - 5 loads, each time for 6-7 days each. I tried doing a 2nd stage in the vibe, but chose the wrong pieces to tumble. Too many had scratches and pitting which proved too deep to be removed from stage 2, but I also think it may have been a lack of smalls that contributed to the failure. I also have tried pre-polish stage with 500 aluminum oxide for 2 days and one with 3 days, both with a tbsp of Borax each time. Here I noticed a big improvement between the two batches by using about 1/3 small rounded ceramic media in the second one. The first was a mess after I tried using a fresh handful of rounded ceramic media with sharp ends - yikes!
Between stages, I just rinsed the rotary tumbler after stage 1 each time, this is the only type of grit I plan to use in this tumbler. I then have stored the rocks in water because I have not yet decided which to progress with and which to dump. I feel like I will need to run them through a quick cleaning stage with soap (have tried this once in the vibe after 120-220 silicon carbide stage 2) and maybe use a fine pick to remove grit from any pits before progressing to stage 2. BUT I am doubting if the pits should even be moved to the next stage! I am kinda stuck here and I am running out of storage for these.
In the vibe, I added a pump of liquid soap and several squirts of water to the end of the stage 2 (120-220 grit) batch, before rinsing and returning for another quick tumble with just soap and water then moving on to to pre-polish stage.
The most important lesson so far? Probably that I have so much more I need to learn, to be honest! I love it and don't mind losing rocks in the process. The biggest issue for me is getting stuck. I don't know what I don't know. And so, I don't know how to find out what I need to know, in order to move forward.
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 29, 2021 0:06:37 GMT -5
There seem to be to be very few agates in your photos for one thing. Mentioning that was triggered by now reading that you wrote "Probably the biggest lesson I've learned so far, that tumbling doesn't suit agates, at least for what I like about them, which is the very fine layers of patterns that make up the whole." Agates are one of the rock types that actually tumble the best because their fibrous micro/crypto crystalline structure is so tough. They are difficult to damage even with poor tumbling work. So you are probably worried about non-agates such as various jaspers, cherts, and misc. My message on this topic and your video, would be to relax, not over-analyze, and worry too much about losing mass on a rock you have fallen in love with. I say keep grinding that baby until it gets solid and worth keeping. This was hard for me at first, but now I am not bothered by it because if a rock never gets free of fractures, it gets discarded or cleaved, and once you have a lot in inventory waiting to be tumbled it just frees up barrel space for the next one. Thanks Bob,
Going to address this first as I'm more confident that I'm able to
I haven't included many agates because I guess I've been unlucky in that I have lost beautiful features on some stones. I've started with striking eye formations, highly contrasting banding, gorgeous colors and ended up with...mostly chalcedony rocks. It's been very disheartening in some cases. In a couple of other cases, I've had some others reveal stunning banding and coloring that only tumbling could have revealed. It really does seem to be a gamble at this stage in my development, so I'm happy to leave the majority of the agates for when I have more knowledge and experience at tumbling.
To your point about the video and the over-analyzing - YES I agree! I put the anal in analyze and end up with - analysis paralysis. Which is where I'm at now, so I appreciate your post very much.
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 29, 2021 0:15:47 GMT -5
Bob I think I finally get it - it's the rock that looks like a barnacle or something? It looks a little different now after stage 2, but I'll get some pics.
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on Jan 29, 2021 8:21:37 GMT -5
The most important lesson so far? Probably that I have so much more I need to learn, to be honest! I love it and don't mind losing rocks in the process. The biggest issue for me is getting stuck. I don't know what I don't know. And so, I don't know how to find out what I need to know, in order to move forward.
This is how I feel all the time! I read this forum for about a year before we even started our first tumble just because there seemed like so much to learn! It was fun reading and learning, but so much of it seems to come down to experience and patience. Even “knowing” what you should be doing can lead to quite a bit of trial and error. Speaking from a complete lack of experience, I’d say you are doing great! You have amazing rocks to work with, you seem to have a good sense of what you should be doing and how things should look, and I am sure you will be getting the results you want sooner rather than later! Besides, you have a lot of experienced people here who can help out if you stray too far from the right path. (Still envious of all the incredible rocks you have lying around nearby!)
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Post by Starguy on Jan 29, 2021 14:12:40 GMT -5
After rewatching your video, I would say that those aren’t fractures, but healed fractures. I see that a lot in LSAs. Great looking rock! I worry more about pits that can transfer grit from one stage to the next. Healed fractures don’t seem to be an issue with grit transfer. An arbor with a coarse diamond wheel can correct a lot of concerns. I can’t wait to see that rock finished. My big tumbler is full of LSAs and Bots right now. I’ll post pictures when they are done.
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Post by Bob on Jan 29, 2021 18:19:31 GMT -5
If the true agates, especially the LS agates you are talking about have sizeable quartz areas in them, or are fractured to begin with, then I can relate to you lamenting the loss of material. Currently, I'm tumbling a lot of Yangtze River agates I brought back from China which are stunning. However, to get to my usual level of fracture-free perfection, I've had to suffer the loss of large amounts of material, and sometimes it just never seems to end.
I've reflected upon whether a few years of experience will alter the frustration you are experiencing with only this one narrow topic. Hmmm. Not sure that it will, except for one thing. You hold an agate in your hand that has problems: quartzy areas, fractures, dents, etc. You decide between:
Option 1 is you put that puppy in rough grind and it doesn't come out until that bad stuff is gone, no matter what. It might be a little smaller, or a whole lot smaller when done. Unfortunately, some never get done. Option 2 is you can tell that cleaving or sawing part of it off now, will have the end result be better than Option 1 because less material will have to be removed in rough grind. Or will result in 2 small, but nice rocks, that in total are more rock to have than just 1 small rock that had so much removed in rough grind. Option 2 is better at times, and I must admit that one only gets the experience of knowing when after tumbling a lot of rocks. So I guess some experience is going to help and if you save your favs but that have problems for a year or so, it might pay off.
I spent more or less the first 2+ year never wanting to fiddle with Option 2. Now I do that a lot and regret not doing it more in the beginning.
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 30, 2021 0:32:06 GMT -5
After rewatching your video, I would say that those aren’t fractures, but healed fractures. I see that a lot in LSAs. Great looking rock! I worry more about pits that can transfer grit from one stage to the next. Healed fractures don’t seem to be an issue with grit transfer. An arbor with a coarse diamond wheel can correct a lot of concerns. I can’t wait to see that rock finished. My big tumbler is full of LSAs and Bots right now. I’ll post pictures when they are done. Thank you, great points. I'm reluctant to move anything with pits to the next stage at all at the moment. My vid does have audio explaining that I'd like to keep the healed fractures, but its so quiet it might've easily been missed. Looking forward to seeing your results, I love Botswana agates.
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 30, 2021 0:33:46 GMT -5
Bob appreciate the insight. I'm gonna hold on to a few favs for a while and cut my teeth on some others that I don't mind messing with so much. Great idea about splitting the rock. You might have saved me some time and effort (and rock!) there.
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 30, 2021 0:39:17 GMT -5
brian thank you! I totally agree, at some point I just have to do something to get a feel for what I'm learning and put it into practice. This place has helped so much with getting the basics before I started, I'm sure its saved me a lot of frustration. Even the frustration I feel now is kinda fun, because its like a puzzle to be solved and all the info is there, I just need to put it together.
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Post by Starguy on Jan 30, 2021 2:06:11 GMT -5
rockhoundmnYoung lady, you’re doing everything right. First off you started tumbling rocks you like. Second, you question your results. Let your heart guide you. Going from coarse grind to stage two is the biggest challenge. You seem to know that already. It seems like you have an eye for perfection. I’ve tumbled rocks for 30+ years. I have very few that I would consider perfect. My greatest joy is to set a bucket of tumbled rocks in front of a kid and tell them to keep the one they like the most. I could make a lot of kids happy. I can’t wait to see your polished rocks. I’m a strictly rotary guy.
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 30, 2021 12:10:39 GMT -5
I definitely should use my heart more, its more enjoyable and the outcome seems better. Not much can go wrong really, when all is said and done.
Thanks for this invaluable reminder!
PS. My hope is to one day have the opportunity to let children enjoy the special thrill of discovering pretty rocks too.
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Jan 31, 2021 8:22:11 GMT -5
brian thank you! I totally agree, at some point I just have to do something to get a feel for what I'm learning and put it into practice. This place has helped so much with getting the basics before I started, I'm sure its saved me a lot of frustration. Even the frustration I feel now is kinda fun, because its like a puzzle to be solved and all the info is there, I just need to put it together. The rocks will tell you when they are ready to move to the next stage. You just have to learn how to speak "rock", and be very patient with the little buggers. Stage one is where 95% of the "talking" will occur. Once you get past this stage things really start to move to completion. You have the right tools to do the job. Did you get the Modern Rock Tumbling Book?
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rockhoundmn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 75
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Post by rockhoundmn on Jan 31, 2021 8:52:52 GMT -5
Yes, its been very helpful too!
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 31, 2021 10:48:25 GMT -5
Nice tumbles, fun isn't it....
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Post by Garage Rocker on Feb 11, 2021 22:03:32 GMT -5
If the true agates, especially the LS agates you are talking about have sizeable quartz areas in them, or are fractured to begin with, then I can relate to you lamenting the loss of material. Currently, I'm tumbling a lot of Yangtze River agates I brought back from China which are stunning. However, to get to my usual level of fracture-free perfection, I've had to suffer the loss of large amounts of material, and sometimes it just never seems to end. I've reflected upon whether a few years of experience will alter the frustration you are experiencing with only this one narrow topic. Hmmm. Not sure that it will, except for one thing. You hold an agate in your hand that has problems: quartzy areas, fractures, dents, etc. You decide between: Option 1 is you put that puppy in rough grind and it doesn't come out until that bad stuff is gone, no matter what. It might be a little smaller, or a whole lot smaller when done. Unfortunately, some never get done. Option 2 is you can tell that cleaving or sawing part of it off now, will have the end result be better than Option 1 because less material will have to be removed in rough grind. Or will result in 2 small, but nice rocks, that in total are more rock to have than just 1 small rock that had so much removed in rough grind. Option 2 is better at times, and I must admit that one only gets the experience of knowing when after tumbling a lot of rocks. So I guess some experience is going to help and if you save your favs but that have problems for a year or so, it might pay off. I spent more or less the first 2+ year never wanting to fiddle with Option 2. Now I do that a lot and regret not doing it more in the beginning. I even go with Option 3 sometimes. I'll leave the thing as is, because I know I can't improve it. These are rare, but there are some I just don't bother. Mostly, too small to have much left if I'm going to cut/tumble off imperfections.
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Post by Bob on Feb 12, 2021 13:32:25 GMT -5
Agreed on Option 3. For that reason, I have a small handful of field-found agates on my shelf that I've not tumbled at all. I'm also particularly found for some reason of that botryoidal chalcedony found in the low mountains in Colorado and Wyoming. It has almost no color, being just a translucent white silvery gray, but I just love the feel and look of pieces of it.
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