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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 29, 2021 10:04:58 GMT -5
Bob Vince has an old broiler pan with a grate over it that he puts slabs on to drip overnight when he's slabbing. He also has a piece of the rubber part of a squeegee that he uses to get excess oil off the slab before he puts it on the grate. Then he'll throw them in the kitty litter.
You can recover a lot of that used oil by filtering it through some brown paper bags. Let the used oil sit for a few days so all the rock sludge sinks to the bottom and get the clear oil off the top to reuse. Then we (Vince) uses a couple of 5 gallon buckets. One has holes drilled all over the bottom and sits inside the other one. Put the sludge in a paper bag (like a grocery bag) and let it sit there. The rest of the oil will drain out of the sludge and end up in the bottom bucket for reuse.
You could have probably used that oil for a while yet before you needed to clean the saw. Vince is the keeper of the saws around here, and all I really know is when it starts to look like rock pudding on the bottom of the saw, that's when it gets cleaned.
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Post by Bob on Mar 29, 2021 10:08:39 GMT -5
Thanks humming. I never thought about how easy to just put the rocks directly from being cut onto a drain surface rather than directly into a pan of cat litter--duh. I have seen some videos of that filtering/draining dirty oil method and will probably set one of those up soon.
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Post by Bob on Mar 29, 2021 10:13:31 GMT -5
Sometimes I'll look at photos on eBay listings just to learn about details of certain products because of the closeups many people take. www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HIGHLAND-PARK-MANUFACTURING-CO-ROCK-SAW-WET-SAW-WORKS-GREAT-LAPIDARY/284230607049?hash=item422d76e0c9:g:NVAAAOSwuC5gC2geThat listing shows a rock saw a bit like mine and I was real interested in that thing that sticks out from the splash guard like a tongue. You can see it in several photos. My splash guard has nothing like that, it's just a piece of cast aluminum with a rounded end. When the saw is running, the oil comes of sort off the left side of it, and falls on the rock more to the left than right over the cutting line. I have wondered if this could be improved but putting something in the end of my splash guard to direct that drip line a bit better. I wonder if this tongue thing is something someone made, or if it came with the saw? I wonder if it is a piece of stiff leather? I wonder if the ideal arrangement is to have a point like that at the end of the splash guard for the oil to run off from?
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 29, 2021 10:37:23 GMT -5
Good question. None of our saws have that.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Mar 29, 2021 19:44:30 GMT -5
That one looks like strip of sheet metal - just to knock down some of the oil that's already been thrown off the blade at that point. I like an old piece of scotchbrite for that because it catches the spray but is flexible enough to allow a rock to push it out of the way if necessary.
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Post by Peruano on Mar 29, 2021 20:06:56 GMT -5
Two of my saws have a bit of an old tshirt hanging from the splash guard. Easy to trim to direct the drip. Slabs from my big saws drain on the trim saw before the oil dry; stuff from the trim saw ( also oil) go to drain on the slab saw. It would be easy to arrange a funnel for pieces to drain into. My dad worked in a garage during the depression and all of the oil he used in his car was the drips from oil that would have otherwise been thrown away as residue in cans bought by others.
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Post by Bob on Mar 30, 2021 13:54:11 GMT -5
I can easily put cut rocks in something to drain beside the saw to save the oil. I really like the idea of a bit of cloth hanging down, not only for the reason you mentioned but also it might cut down on the oil spray a little bit. Since I had to clean out the sludge anyway, I've taken my saw base apart and am modifying it further. I've thought of a few improvements. 1. I can see how having the belt go down, not back, from the driven shaft would have the advantage of the motor and it's electrical cord and most of the belt being tucked away out of sight and not exposed to oil spray too. To do this would require a special base high enough to contain the motor underneath the tank. I don't think the extra height would bother me because I've experimented with different heights and find that higher, where I don't have to bend over much to see what I'm doing, is better. Having it up higher has also enabled me to hide my chin and much of my face behind the spray shield and only have my eyes peering over the edge (in goggles of course). So my face is now not getting oily. This will also result in a rock saw that is very compact front to back. But I'm not going to tackle that modification yet. 2. I'm going to put a male/female plug connector in the motor cord to have a quick detach point when needing to get the motor off the base quickly rather than having it hard-wired. 3. I tested having a light on a stand pointing toward the cutting point, wow, that really helps. So I'm ordering this light www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016UIUEA6?pf_rd_r=PPDR7Q4FBHQXZQHDE1HF&pf_rd_p=5ae2c7f8-e0c6-4f35-9071-dc3240e894a8&pd_rd_r=19376092-81c2-4b6f-9b83-b9cb47a9422d&pd_rd_w=CcbZY&pd_rd_wg=ZW5Dj&ref_=pd_gw_unkand going to attach it onto the saw base. The 24" gooseneck part should enable maximum configurations. I'm getting 1, and depending on how it goes, will stay with 1 or might get another to have on the other side of the blade. When I get it, I'll decide after whether to hard wire it in via a hole for its cord into the base or make a outlet in the side of the base for it to plug into and remove easily. I'm pretty encouraged by my experience thus far. The blade cuts great, and I've already gone through a lot of rock and the trimmed rocks are working their way into my tumbling production. If I were to guess based on how it's going and the type of material I have in inventory and how I tumble, I would guess that after I catch up which will take a couple of months, I could keep up with material that needs trimming in one 1-2 hr session per weekend. The largest cuts I've made so far have been in cantaloupe size rocks and although it took coming at the rock from a couple of different directions to made do with the 10" blade, I think a 10" saw is just right for me. I've got quite a bit of Cerro Pedernal chalcedony in production now and to keep the solid portions has required quite a bit of trimming which this saw really did for me. So glad I got it and so appreciative of all of you who are helping me with it!
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Post by Bob on Apr 1, 2021 13:46:27 GMT -5
Before I got this 10" lapidary saw, I had a little tile saw from Lowe's that I used a bit. I got tired of it fast, but it did work some on some small rocks. Not long after doing it I read about pulling the rock through it from behind the blade so that the spray goes away from you. This sounded awkward, but I tried it and it was easy and worked.
Do people also do this with true lapidary saws such as a 10" or large saw like this when doing freehand work like I am doing? I've never seen it done at the few places I've been where lapidary saws were set up. And with the motor behind the saw table/tank, it would be too far to reach safely so I'm guessing the answer is no?
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Post by Peruano on Apr 1, 2021 15:17:21 GMT -5
In my shop yes, the answer is no. On an 8" saw, I occasionally feel an oil droplet on my face but the shield on the front catches 95% of the oil from the blade not actually confined to the saw table, and whatever goes laterally is trivial enough to not cause a mess (i.e. my attention). I do try to avoid wearing real glasses because oil mist and perhaps rock particles do hit my glasses and result in scratches if I don't rinse them carefully before wiping them, but its really trivial. I admit that I'm not doing major slabbing on that saw, but your experience should be the same with compensation for longer cutting times and perhaps rounded rock surfaces.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 1, 2021 21:30:08 GMT -5
Good point about the glasses Peruano. I ordered a few pairs of bifocal readers online and use those for sawing.
Most lapidary saws have the splash guard mounted near the back of the blade. Just have to "keep pushin' on...".
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Post by Bob on Apr 8, 2021 16:07:54 GMT -5
I have let the sludge sit in a 5 gal bucket now for 2 weeks. I tilted it against something at about a 45 degree angle. The last few days, I have pulled off clear oil with a turkey baster. I was surprised how easy this was and how the dirty stuff at the bottom isn't disturbed super easily like settling polish is.
More or less, I would say I've recovered 1/3 clear oil, by volume, from the beginning dirty oil, and so little is appearing on surface daily now that it's about done, plus I can see some of the sludge now drying out too.
Does this mean I waited too long, or cleaned too early, or is this--recovering about 1/3--about right?
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Post by Bob on Apr 12, 2021 10:37:55 GMT -5
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Post by Rockindad on Apr 12, 2021 16:00:34 GMT -5
The lights went better than expected. The flexible goosenecks are very well made and cutting while being able to really see what I'm doing has changed everything. Also, I can point a light to peer down into the tank beside the blade and see the oil and how it touches the blade which is very handy. Bob if you don't mind sharing, where did you find your lights? I have a similar setup and use some battery powered, magnetic base goosenecks that work well but they eat batteries very fast and become rather dim. All the corded ones I have found locally are flimsy. Al
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Post by Bob on Apr 12, 2021 18:06:50 GMT -5
Al, the link to them on Amazon is in this thread last week. I didn't like the quick disconnector on the DC wire at first, but they do allow quickly removing lights from my base if needed for cleaning or further modifications. I got the lower of the 2 wattages.
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Post by Rockindad on Apr 13, 2021 7:19:01 GMT -5
Al, the link to them on Amazon is in this thread last week. I didn't like the quick disconnector on the DC wire at first, but they do allow quickly removing lights from my base if needed for cleaning or further modifications. I got the lower of the 2 wattages. Thanks Bob, completely missed it. Al
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Post by Bob on Apr 13, 2021 10:04:31 GMT -5
Trimmed more last night. It seems about 45-60 mins of freehand cutting is enough at a time before I want to call it a session. I have only filled enough oil to come up about 1/8" onto the blade, which probably helps a lot with less spray. Also, that little terrycloth piece hanging from the splash guard is now fully soaked and hangs down loosely and that must be what has really cut down on what hits the plexiglass and also goes up my arms. Thanks especially to Peruano for that.
Last night, my arms were virtually oil free except for my hands, and nothing got up on my hair or hat, and the plexiglass shield remained transparent enough to do the whole session by looking through it rather than from above it. I don't think that could have worked very well though w/o these great lights. The lights are leds with a flat cover lenses so that oil doesn't get on the leds themselves. I've also learned that angling the one light just right so that it is in front of large rocks such that I can peer down there and see that blade bottom and help keep it centered in the table throat slot helps too.
I did test draining the oil from the rocks before putting them in the cat litter. So little came off even after 2 hours that it's just not worth bothering with. I had perhaps 2 teaspoons of oil come off of all the rocks I cut on Sunday in about 40 mins. So I'm now putting them directly in a pan of cat litter that I put up beside the saw on the left side.
Feel like I'm starting to get trimming going decently, but like everything else, probably have a lot to learn.
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Post by Bob on Apr 21, 2021 15:19:59 GMT -5
Had to change oil again already! This time I noticed how on one day how the oil wasn't all clear during the entire 45 min cutting session, but seemed to cut okay. But the next day, it didn't really even start clear and cutting degraded and I noticed thick brown oil accumulating on table. I guess that's time to do a cleanout, so I did. Used cleanout plug to scoot oil/sludge into an empty translucent 1 gal empty oil empty plastic bottle. This is 4th day after, and clear at top is still growing 1/8" per day though slowing down. Probably 3" clear at top now. This seems a lot easier than filtering through a paper sack. I could have several of these jugs sitting around slowly settling and no mess at all.
Cleaned tank thoroughly, which is real easy after lifting off arbor/table top combined. Having the new quick disconnect I can now remove motor in about 30 seconds and with that weight off can lift whole base including attached lamps and tank off to pour or clean easily.
As put back together have measured oil to cover blade by 1/8", and it was 88oz. So now I can refill quickly after future cleanouts.
One lesson learned. The first time, after each cutting session and during, I would use my figures to scoot rock debris around on table to fall into tank. But this caused oil/sludge to not drain out properly when removing the cleanout. All that crud got hung up in the hole. Now I used my hands to move that rock debris onto one corner of the table during cutting, and at end of day clear it off into a trash can with a putty knife. So this time tank drained out well on it's own, and only some had to be pushed toward the drain hole.
If anyone who had done this for years sees me on wrong track I welcome suggestions as still learning!
I am in love with those two gooseneck lights. They are working fantastic. Even when not doing cutting, using them on to help clean the saw or the tank even with top off is super handy.
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Post by Bob on Apr 21, 2021 15:24:38 GMT -5
Question about the MK-301 blade and something that has happened. When I got the blade, it was flat. Of course it flexed a bit if pushed from the side. But now, it's wobbly in the groove, and shifts some as I'm cutting. If the blade is rotated and touched while the saw is off, I can tell it's not longer flat. It's as if the edge of the blade is now a greater diameter such that it's no longer in one plane. You can "pop" or "flip" it in or out in position due to the metal "springing" if you know what I mean.
Have I done something to cause this? Is still cuts, but dealing with this is a bit of a pain. It takes a while to get blade started in right spot, and a few times while cutting larger rocks the bottom of the blade has rubbed against table throat slot and enlarge it a little, maybe .5mm on both sides.
I see this blade is .040" off the manufacturer's website.
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Post by Bob on Apr 26, 2021 15:19:51 GMT -5
...oil/sludge into an empty translucent 1 gal empty oil empty plastic bottle. This is 4th day after, and clear at top is still growing 1/8" per day though slowing down. Probably 3" clear at top now. This seems a lot easier than filtering through a paper sack. I could have several of these jugs sitting around slowly settling and no mess at all. saw or the tank even with top off is super handy. This worked very well and I was able to pour off the clear oil at top from this bottle quite easily. The first 2 days of settling produced 3" of clear oil, the next few days 1/8" each, going in to 2nd week was doing 1/16" per day, but now getting close to end of 2nd week and only by maybe 1/32" per day--barely visible change. So perhaps in 2 weeks most of sludge settling is done. I measured blade and depth of tank and found out that there is about 1-1.25" of oil beneath the blade. This next time cleaning is needed, I'm going to try to tilt the whole saw and see if it all runs out the drain hole on it's own w/o any need to remove saw top to get inside the tank. Perhaps this will be helped by not waiting so long when sludge is very thick. Now that I've got such as easy place to drain the oil into--those bottles--I would not mind several of them sitting around settling if need be. I measured oil when 1/8" up on blade and new and clean and it's 92 liquid oz, just shy of a full gallon. Am getting the oil on Amazon for $17 I think, locally in my tractor supply place (horse laxative) it costs a bit over $22.
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Post by HankRocks on Apr 26, 2021 16:03:08 GMT -5
...oil/sludge into an empty translucent 1 gal empty oil empty plastic bottle. This is 4th day after, and clear at top is still growing 1/8" per day though slowing down. Probably 3" clear at top now. This seems a lot easier than filtering through a paper sack. I could have several of these jugs sitting around slowly settling and no mess at all. saw or the tank even with top off is super handy. This worked very well and I was able to pour off the clear oil at top from this bottle quite easily. The first 2 days of settling produced 3" of clear oil, the next few days 1/8" each, going in to 2nd week was doing 1/16" per day, but now getting close to end of 2nd week and only by maybe 1/32" per day--barely visible change. So perhaps in 2 weeks most of sludge settling is done. I measured blade and depth of tank and found out that there is about 1-1.25" of oil beneath the blade. This next time cleaning is needed, I'm going to try to tilt the whole saw and see if it all runs out the drain hole on it's own w/o any need to remove saw top to get inside the tank. Perhaps this will be helped by not waiting so long when sludge is very thick. Now that I've got such as easy place to drain the oil into--those bottles--I would not mind several of them sitting around settling if need be. I measured oil when 1/8" up on blade and new and clean and it's 92 liquid oz, just shy of a full gallon. Am getting the oil on Amazon for $17 I think, locally in my tractor supply place (horse laxative) it costs a bit over $22. I buy from these folks, of course to get the shipping dropped you have to buy over $75 worth, or about 6 gallons. I have 3 saws so buying above that quantity and that price is worth it. Henry www.scahealth.com/p/ultracruz-mineral-oil-light
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