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Post by Peruano on Nov 10, 2021 13:14:44 GMT -5
To prevent that thin slice sliding into the space between the blade and table, find a thin sheet of plastic (a cheapo cutting board will do if thin enough) and use your saw to create a slit an appropriate depth in the sheet so that it will position around your blade. Any contact with the blade will merely enlarge the slit a bit, but the gap causing the problem will be covered. Such jams may be causing your warped blade but not necessarily.
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Post by Bob on Nov 12, 2021 17:54:20 GMT -5
Good idea.
I've ordered the HP green Agate Eater blade to check it out. The blank isn't tensioned and there is a YouTube video on how because of that the blade can be straightened if bent.
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Post by Bob on Dec 27, 2021 15:18:16 GMT -5
Am learning that the wider the blade, the stiffer, and therefore works best for hand held trimming. Obviously more material is lost because cut is wider. Also, there is a little more breakout at end but I don't mind either of those downsides because I'm not cutting fancy, valuable material for cabs--I'm just trimming before tumbling.
But, something unexpected that I've certainly learned is another downside of a big stiff blade is oil doesn't last as long between changes and cleanings because it gets dirty much faster! Darn.
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 27, 2021 17:48:33 GMT -5
I'm very happy with my 10 inch new version of Highland Park saw. It is slow and does great with a .032 blade. Doesn't jam. I use a soup ladle to scoop out gunk and top off with added oil.
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Post by Bob on Dec 27, 2021 21:48:36 GMT -5
I'm very happy with my 10 inch new version of Highland Park saw. It is slow and does great with a .032 blade. Doesn't jam. I use a soup ladle to scoop out gunk and top off with added oil. Like me did you try tile saws first and quickly get frustrated?
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Dec 27, 2021 22:02:22 GMT -5
Bob - If you back off the pressure toward the end of your cut it will help minimize the breakout.
Use just enough pressure so that the blade isn't "chattering" against the rock. You'll be able to tell by the sound when you're there.
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 27, 2021 22:52:15 GMT -5
I'm very happy with my 10 inch new version of Highland Park saw. It is slow and does great with a .032 blade. Doesn't jam. I use a soup ladle to scoop out gunk and top off with added oil. Like me did you try tile saws first and quickly get frustrated? When I bought my Genie there was a special offer for the trim saw attachment for around $25. I used that for about 10 years. 8" with a mk303 .032 blade. About 5 years later my wife bought me a covington 16 combo saw. It sat in the box for 8 years until I retired. I used the Genie saw for trimming and small slabbing. The Covington caused a lot of grief from frequently jamming and having a large kerf. I bought the Highland Park a year ago and is only used for slabbing. I still trim using the Genie saw.
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Post by Bob on Dec 29, 2021 1:25:16 GMT -5
Bob - If you back off the pressure toward the end of your cut it will help minimize the breakout.
Use just enough pressure so that the blade isn't "chattering" against the rock. You'll be able to tell by the sound when you're there.
Indeed that does help and I do that reflexively on every cut. I'm going someday to set up a grinder jig to make blades perfectly round now and then which should help decrease the banging effect, even if slight, that I suspect causes some of that breakout. Rocks are brittle and I expect there will always be some in handheld sawing without backup blocking.
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Post by Bob on Jan 21, 2022 15:59:48 GMT -5
That agate cutter blade from Highland Park has really changed everything. It just keeps cutting and cutting everything I throw at it and shows no signs of slowing down. But, to deal with the oil that gets dirty quick, I've resigned myself to having to change the oil a lot. No longer can I go 5-6 sessions before the oil start getting sludgy. My idea now is to arrange a big drain container below the saw, on the floor, enough to hold maybe 3-4 saw tanks full of oil. My tank I think holds just under a gal. I have a plastic kitty litter container that is 3-4 gallons I think with a pour cap top.
I can run a large hose into that container, and at the top have a small funnel that hangs in just the right place below the tank plug. I can undo the plug after each evening cutting session when the oil is warm and solids are still suspended, let it drain out. Then put in new oil, or clean oil after settling, for the next round the next day. Currently the drain plug is a tapped pipe plug that requires a wrench to undo. If I could find something quick for the in and out, such as like a wine bottle sealer, then this whole process could go pretty quickly.
The front edge of the saw table is several inches in front of the front edge of the tank where the drain plug is. So I think I could leave this funnel/hose hanging below the drain plug all the time w/o getting in my way. By the time this kitty litter container is full of drained oil, which would take several days if I cutting a little each evening, probably the top half of more will be clear oil to pour off.
Can anyone think of any reason not to drain/refill the oil often like this?
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Post by Bob on Feb 2, 2022 14:52:29 GMT -5
Boy, after doing this 4 times or so, it works very well. And the next time I do cutting, the oil is almost like new, because draining out oil used in only one session gets almost all of it out before adding new. One added bonus that I didn't see coming is this. Because the oil is drained right after a 1 or 1.5 hr trimming session, it is still warm and flows out quickly from the drain hole. Since there hasn't been days' worth of settling, it mostly just pulls out the rock bits with it as it drains out quickly, thus really getting most of what is in there out.
So pleased with this, I've decided to develop a strut or something that will enable me to quickly and safely tilt up the whole saw because the drain is on the front of the tank. I've noticed that if I tilt it, the oil comes out super easy and brings out even more rocks bits and dust with it too. Of course, if my saw was bigger than 10", tilting it would be difficult.
I've picked up a white semi-translucent corrugated RV drain hose for $9 at Lowe's that is perhaps 1.5" in diameter to use between the drain hole and fix with a clip to the top of the large container below. Next I've got to find just the right funnel to put below the drain and glue to this hose, perhaps a rectangular funnel if they make such. I want to have a way of hanging this funnel right below the drain while also leaving room to get a wrench on the drain plug.
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NDK
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Post by NDK on Feb 7, 2022 16:07:12 GMT -5
Bob have you considered using pipe to run a drain with a ball valve inline?
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Post by Bob on Feb 7, 2022 21:06:54 GMT -5
No, because pipe fittings decrease usable ID of an opening they thread into. They would change my drain hole ID to an OD, and probably half my drain flow and cause rock bits to hang up.
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Post by Bob on Feb 8, 2022 12:24:13 GMT -5
One thing that has been learned by this new arrangement of changing the oil after every cutting session, is just how much rock dust I've been making! Apparently 45 mins to 90 mins of free hand trimming with that thick blade really churns a lot of rock due to the wide kerf. Nonetheless, having that stiff, wide blade that cuts like crazy has allowed me to really make a lot of progress through all the rock that has backed up on me.
It's now a pattern. Get home from work, eat, put on the rubber apron, protective glasses, boonie hat. Put quite a few rocks on top of the saw table. Pull boonie hat down tight over glasses and get to sawing. Throw each keeper piece to the left into 1/2" of cheap clay cat litter in a large shallow pan to the left of the saw. Drop cruddy pieces of rock into a bucket to the right to discard. Cut cut cut, the oil getting a first a bit brownish and then one can see suspended solids and it gets thicker. I've got magic marker lines leading to where saw blade is at 90%, 45%, and 0% to help me keep that rock on course with my hands while struggling to see through the dirty splash shield, now dirty googles, and dirty oil running all over my hands and the line I marked on the rock. I have to redo those lines on the table a lot because they get worn off. When I get done, I've got oil up to my elbows.
Turn off saw. Take towel and wipe my arms and hands. Remove apron. Set pan with rocks on floor, pour cat litter over whole thing to cover all rocks. Wipe off mess from sides of saw and shield. Use putty knife on saw table to sweep good oil into tank and get cruddy rock bits into a pile. Put up as much of the bits as I can to discard. Lay a couple of paper towels on saw table so when tilted no oil will run off. Tilt saw toward drain hole at front using 2x6 board under back. Arrange funnel and drain and wrench out the drain plug.
Whoosh comes out warm and dirty oil and fine rock bits. Clean out drain hole and replug. Set saw back to level. Pour in clean oil with saw running until just enough to be ready for next time. Now go wash up my arms and glasses. After 1 hour or so, use wire mesh scoop to get all rocks out of kitty litter. Fill bucket 1/3 full with warm water and dish soap. Soak rocks, sometimes overnight. Get out of soapy water. Examine them all again for if more trimming needed or if go to rough grind. Sometimes another week in rough grind will reveal that a bit more trimming needed.
This is what I've probably done to several hundred lbs of rock in last few months, all hand held. Sometimes the rocks are so large that I can barely get them in front of the blade at all. But all this works. Does anyone else do a lot of messy freehand trimming like this?
I found that having the saw up on a stand where the table is probably a little bit higher than my belly button is a whole lot easier and less back strain than having it down low. And my line of sight to the cutting is almost as much horizontal as it is vertical over it.
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Post by parfive on Feb 8, 2022 12:42:25 GMT -5
Does anyone else do a lot of messy freehand trimming like this? Certainly not with oil for tumbling rough.
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rockbrain
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Post by rockbrain on Feb 8, 2022 18:13:37 GMT -5
I'm working on a similar saw right now. I'm also going to try and use oil. How do you tell where your oil level is? I have to pull the top to see inside. I haven't figured out how to get the oil level right when I can't see it.
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Post by Bob on Feb 9, 2022 16:45:07 GMT -5
When I first got the saw, I would pour in the oil until by slightly hand-rotating the blade I would see about 1/8" on the blade. This is hard to see. And I measured the oz which I think was 92oz. But that only worked when clean and truly empty. After draining, given the varying amounts of left over sludge in the tank, it would take less oz that varied. fter I got enough experience to know about how much oil to sling for proper lubing, I no longer measure oz or look at the stationary blade. I turn on the saw, slowly pour in on the table, letting oil drop through drain holes in table, but not enough to run onto the blade where it goes through the table. I watch in front of the blade for the oil to appear slung from the blade. By listening closely as I pour, I can now actually hear the moment the oil comes up high enough to touch the blade and the slinging start a little. I keep going a bit more (probably a cup or two) until I see some oil dropping off the front of the blade guard and am good to go. If I go more than that, it just creates needless oil slinging around. As I'm cutting, if the oil goes down and I see that slinging decrease, I quickly pour a bit more oil in and am good to go longer.
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Post by Bob on Feb 14, 2022 14:52:52 GMT -5
I did a more hand trimming last weekend than I have ever done, and just can't believe how that HP agate cutter blade keeps it up. I tightened my drive belt and increased the feed rate expecting to dull the blade or notice a decrease in cutting efficiency in some way. It didn't happen! I also have tried dressing it a few times with a dresser that looks like a knife sharpening stone, not because I had noticed less efficiency, but just to see if it made any difference at all. It didn't.
I can really press a rock against this blade and cut like crazy and then let up toward the end to minimize breakout. Several rocks measuring about 4" on the side were cut. So I was wondering how this can be given that other blades I've used that are thinner can't do this. I gave the blade a real close look and think I have seen something.
From the depth of the blade rim, I think I have consumed about 40% of the rim in only two months of cutting. Compare this to the other blades and I could not even tell any difference after two months. This makes me think the slotted core at the rim, and/or the matrix that contains the diamonds is, on purpose, softer than many blades. Softer probably on purpose to wear aware faster and expose more new diamond bits to overall cut faster. Now, I've been doing far more trimming than would normally be the case because I'm working on a huge back log and will soon be caught up.
The blade cost $80. At the rate I'm consuming the rim it would probably only last 5-6 months, so would take 2 per year at a cost of about $13/mo for blades. But after I get caught up, I predict one would last almost twice that long--just under a year, so would cost a bit less than $7/mo. Well worth it given how fast it cuts. A Youtube video mentions that it isn't a tempered core and can therefore be straightened by hand and doing that is demoed. This made me think it might get out of flat now and then especially when pressing against the side of the rim with a rock. Oddly, it hasn't happened.
The blade has really impressed me.
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Post by Bob on Feb 16, 2022 11:00:29 GMT -5
Last night I tightened my belt more, and pressed harder on the blade than ever before, and could not believe how much trimming I got done in an hour! I also did a visual check on the blade rim before and after. It appears that one real hard hour like that going crazy took off 1/32" of an inch. I don't know whether that would be considered normal wear for the lineal feet I did of rock destruction or whether it was worse because of pressure or oil getter warmer quicker. The only difference I could tell in cutting itself was that in rocks I could see into due to translucency, I could see more sparks now and then inside the kerf.
There is a lot on the internet in documents and discussions and also Youtube videos about this Greenline Agate Eater blade that helps understand its development, its metals, and how it's designed to wear and expose fresh diamonds.
Being in love with this blade, and not wanting to run out of them in case HP gets in trouble, I decided to order 4-5 of them. My luck--currently out of stock in 10"!
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brybry
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Post by brybry on Feb 16, 2022 13:55:53 GMT -5
Check advance auto for the funnel. I popped into one for oil change stuff and noticed a stack of them for a couple bucks each.
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NDK
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Post by NDK on Feb 16, 2022 19:31:39 GMT -5
Be careful not to tighten the belt too much, it can put undue stress on the bearings and wear them quicker
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