karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on Mar 16, 2021 14:01:25 GMT -5
So this might be a dumb question, it might be blasphemy to some as well.
I don't know the physical\chemical process of polishing the stones, and what the Aluminum Oxide does. I just switched up the products I was using, so things may change, but I wasn't getting what I hoped for in the end. Getting discouraged I thought, why not run stage 1 (60/90) to round out the rocks and then just slap a Lacquer, Poly or clear coat on the the stone. It would save a lot of time and look about the same? But again not knowing the science behind the tumbling maybe a tumble polish holds up better? looks nicer?
Can anyone comment to this?
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Post by greig on Mar 16, 2021 14:35:04 GMT -5
To me, natural stone always looks better without any additives. That said, I have sometimes given rocks a squirt of automotive Armour All ... which can be washed off.
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USMC15
Cave Dweller
I feel like I just came out of the tumbler ...
Member since March 2021
Posts: 273
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Post by USMC15 on Mar 16, 2021 15:21:11 GMT -5
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,094
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Post by stefan on Mar 16, 2021 16:28:12 GMT -5
I have used CA to stabilize stone before tumbling and cabbing (especially Boulder opal). A lot of lacquers will yellow with time. Poly tends to have a slight yellow tint to it also. Clear epoxy may be the best bet but drying is difficult as the stone has to rest on something and will create a rougher area. I suppose you could clear coat with a couple coats with nice results. Something just goes against the nature of tumbling to have a false finish. But to your real question WHY the bad results? AO can be a difficult polish to get to work well. The harder the stone (quartz based or Moh's 7 or harder) the better it works. Also I have found AO needs to "break in". I usually save my AO between batches and reuse it. It seems to get better the more it runs! Also try a 3 or 4 week polish cycle. Are you using pellets to cushion the load?(or some kind of cushioning). Separate barrel for polish only (to avoid cross contamination). Burnish stage (I feel that AO leaves a slight residue so I run the load in borax and plastic poly pellets for 24 hours to burnish). Maybe bad AO (I have always use the Rock Shed for my AO needs but I have heard of some polishes being lower grade) At the end or the day they are your rocks and you can do what you want. If people have an issue with using an artificial finish well that's on them not you!
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 16, 2021 16:30:22 GMT -5
I think the allure of rocks to most tumblers and lapidaryists, in general, is that they are natural. Besides, no matter the coating, odds are good that it will wear off in one way or another at some point. A polish is a better solution for shiny rocks.
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karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on Mar 16, 2021 16:54:42 GMT -5
I’m going to keep this next batch going.
I wandered into a rock store while traveling in Florida. They sold it as art. I thought to myself, “there is no way I can ever get a stone to look like this”. It almost made the think maybe there is something fake about them, which lead me to question could I tell the difference between a well polished rock and one with a clear coat or sealer.
What should I use as polish if not AO?
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,094
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Post by stefan on Mar 16, 2021 17:24:21 GMT -5
I love Tin Oxide! Of course the price is pretty steep ($25/ lb compared to $4.75 for AO). Cerium Oxide is between the 2, but I have failed with it time and time again. You could also get Tripoli (a pre-polish) and run it for 9 months straight. I tried it and it works!
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Post by greig on Mar 16, 2021 17:57:59 GMT -5
I love Tin Oxide! Of course the price is pretty steep ($25/ lb compared to $4.75 for AO). Cerium Oxide is between the 2, but I have failed with it time and time again. You could also get Tripoli (a pre-polish) and run it for 9 months straight. I tried it and it works! I haven't noticed a difference with the results using AO vs CO. Never tried TO. I would have trouble waiting 9 months for a baby, let along Tripoli to finish. I respect those with more patience. My humble suggestion is run the AO for longer to see if you like the result. I notice a big difference with most rocks after 1-2 weeks. So probably 3 is a good target.
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USMC15
Cave Dweller
I feel like I just came out of the tumbler ...
Member since March 2021
Posts: 273
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Post by USMC15 on Mar 16, 2021 18:01:45 GMT -5
I love Tin Oxide! Of course the price is pretty steep ($25/ lb compared to $4.75 for AO). Cerium Oxide is between the 2, but I have failed with it time and time again. You could also get Tripoli (a pre-polish) and run it for 9 months straight. I tried it and it works! You will need mega patience to run Tripoli for 9 months straight. I barely made it the 9 months my ex-wife was pregnant, but as Jason said, I am an impatient person.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Mar 16, 2021 18:52:15 GMT -5
So you asked for an opinion so here you go.... BLASPHEMY The allure to rock tumbling for me is not just a shiny rocks at the end. If that is all I wanted I could buy bags of pre-polished rocks all day long for alot cheaper than what I am producing them for. Part of the hobby is learning the craft of the polish. Stones are as varied as people. Some will polish to a mirror shine while others won't polish at all. The varying hardness, polishes, tumbling recipes, fillers, etc ad nauseum add a wide variety to the hobby that always drives me to want to learn more and experiment. Yes I did get unsatisfactory results at first but learned and do a lot better now. I don't know how long you have been tumbling but if new I urge you to stick around and learn from the forum. It is filled with tips and tricks to get the natural shine. Yeah you might have to dig a bit but even in that you start to learn the people here and pickup things you hadn't even thought of. So to end my quick reply that turned into an essay.... Strive to get the natural polish and forgo the fake spray on shines. Otherwise, it's like going to the beach with your beautiful date but after swimming your realize the beauty you desired is now floating away in the ocean and you are left with an ugly.... ROCK! (I am sure I will catch it for that) Steven
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Post by Bob on Mar 29, 2021 10:04:53 GMT -5
A few years ago I spent some time researching this topic some for rocks that would not take a high shine. High shine rocks look the same wet or dry and the colors just pop. But other rocks look prettier when wet, such as the granite, basalts, and many other rocks for which I have to stop after 1,200 or 1,500 SC. They have a nice satiny finish, but I knew something would help.
I didn't want a coating on the rocks like lacquer or anything like that, because such coatings deteriorate over time especially as rocks bump into each other. I wanted something that would penetrate the surface. I didn't want anything that added to the shine at all, but just a color enhancer that made the colors like true like when wet.
My research led me to this product: Dupont Stonetech Enhancer Pro Sealer.
It really worked nicely and I still use it. After being done, there is no evidence that it was done which is exactly what I wanted. You can do a test by doing half of a rock. It's expensive, but a little goes a very long ways. It's a thin as water. It thankfully does not add any artificial shine to the satiny finish.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,334
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Post by quartz on Mar 29, 2021 21:46:00 GMT -5
I've polished with tripoli for lots of years, and get many compliments on the quality. Polish run is two weeks, and well padded with leather scraps.
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