gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Apr 2, 2021 8:09:00 GMT -5
I'm currently ordering the darn belts for my rotary tumblers by the dozen. I'm running a couple of Thumbler Tumbler Mod B 15 lbs. units and with full loads have had to replace the belts at least every month. 15 lbs is a big rock load and the belts I've tried just don't hold up.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,094
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Post by stefan on Apr 2, 2021 8:28:47 GMT -5
There is a guy on Amazon that sells an aftermarket type belt. Supposed to be better than original. I'm going to give them a go as I used my last Thumlers belt. I usually get several years on a belt but my largest barrel is 12 lbs. Make sure to check your driven pulley (the plastic one) for burrs. ALL my Thumlers had mold ridges in the pulley groove that I very lightly sanded down. Also check the alignment (motor can be shimmed if necessary) and check the motor tension. The belt should be just tight enough to move the barrel with no slipping (very difficult to adjust but worth the effort). These belts are Not meant to stretch at all and any extra tension will weaken them very quickly. Last thing I do is to clean the pulleys as they tend to get funked up pretty quick (I clean mine every 6 months). Another thought is to not start the motor under load of possible. I plug in the motor then place the barrel on the rollers (no easy task!). Hope this helps
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Post by HankRocks on Apr 2, 2021 8:41:02 GMT -5
There is a guy on Amazon that sells an aftermarket type belt. Supposed to be better than original. I'm going to give them a go as I used my last Thumlers belt. I usually get several years on a belt but my largest barrel is 12 lbs. Make sure to check your driven pulley (the plastic one) for burrs. ALL my Thumlers had mold ridges in the pulley groove that I very lightly sanded down. Also check the alignment (motor can be shimmed if necessary) and check the motor tension. The belt should be just tight enough to move the barrel with no slipping (very difficult to adjust but worth the effort). These belts are Not meant to stretch at all and any extra tension will weaken them very quickly. Last thing I do is to clean the pulleys as they tend to get funked up pretty quick (I clean mine every 6 months). Another thought is to not start the motor under load of possible. I plug in the motor then place the barrel on the rollers (no easy task!). Hope this helps I have 3 model B's running and I do replace belts about every 5 or 6 months on 2 of the machines. For some reason on one of the machines the belt lasts over a year. I have checked them all and can not find the difference. Can you post the link the Amazon belts? Thanks Henry
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,094
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Post by stefan on Apr 2, 2021 9:38:56 GMT -5
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Post by manofglass on Apr 2, 2021 10:01:12 GMT -5
Maybe you can build a better tumbler that lasts
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Post by nowyo on Apr 2, 2021 11:41:07 GMT -5
Maybe you can build a better tumbler that lasts This is the real answer. The original belt on y Model B lasted quite a while. Bought two new "official" Thumler replacement belts just to have on hand. The first one lasted less than 24 hours before it broke, the second one lasted less than a week. Put the original belt back on. Since then I've been using O-rings that I bought a bag of a few years ago. Not ideal, they work and last longer. Russ
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Post by manofglass on Apr 2, 2021 11:50:18 GMT -5
My dad saved all the belts from cars he worked on When he died I took that stack of belts they been running all my tools Except the harbor freight saw I replaced the belts on my rotary tumbler Once sense 2009
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Post by Rockindad on Apr 2, 2021 15:35:12 GMT -5
The original belt on our first Model B lasted about 6 months. For replacements we were buying ones from The Rock Shed (the clear ones) and those did not last very long for whatever reason, maybe averaged 1-2 months. The link stefan provided is for belts that will also fit the Model B, I just checked our order history and these are the ones we ended up getting. We just put the second one from the pack on a couple of weeks ago, the first one lasted 13 months. Al
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Apr 2, 2021 20:35:57 GMT -5
Thanks for all the good info and suggestions. I don't overload the barrel so I'll try some other belts. Between batches I always clean my barrel and the rest of the tumbler including all the pulleys to keep the belts fronm slipping. I'll now carefully check them for any rough spots. I'll also verify the tension isn't more than it needs to be. I wish there was a tool to measure the tension. Thanks again.
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dustyfossil
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2021
Posts: 22
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Post by dustyfossil on Jun 16, 2021 18:05:44 GMT -5
What I did was take my belt into a hydraulic shop, and get the guys there to find an O ring for hydraulic equipment that fit my tumbler, VIOLA! tumbler belts at a fraction of the price like I have 50 belts for less than 10$
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 17, 2021 7:40:59 GMT -5
Thanks for all the good info and suggestions. I don't overload the barrel so I'll try some other belts. Between batches I always clean my barrel and the rest of the tumbler including all the pulleys to keep the belts fronm slipping. I'll now carefully check them for any rough spots. I'll also verify the tension isn't more than it needs to be. I wish there was a tool to measure the tension. Thanks again. It would be a restriction to my rotary tumbling style to not be able to load the barrel tp 65-70-80-85% gatorflash1. I would run the barrel 65 to 70% fill when doing step 1 for a more aggressive grind and add quartz pea gravel during 220/500/polish. The added pea gravel was used over and over for topping the barrel to about 80% fill during finish steps for a more gentle tumble. Resulting in quicker and better polishes. By the way a 100% fill will put less pressure on the belt since the barrel would be perfectly balanced. A 60% fill causes the motor to work harder to lift a barrel with more weight on one side in the barrel right ? I do know that thick slurry make my motors heat up more. And I have a current clamp and have measured both situations. I have a big tumbler that holds 5 to 6 barrels totaling about 150 to 180 pounds. I was running a 1/2hp motor that started rumbling due to a bad bearing. I bought a cheap current clamp to see how many amps it was drawing. Calculations showed a 1/3hp replacement motor would easily do the job and a 1/4hp would be a bit borderline so I replaced the 1/2hp with a 1/4hp and started tumbling 120 pounds or less which reduced the power use by 1/2. Thick slurries and 60-70% fills do draw more current than watery slurries and 80+%. Another test is to put a 100% filled barrel on an incline and watch how easily it rolls down it. Fill it to 60% and it will require a steeper incline to roll down it at same speed.
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Post by Bob on Jun 23, 2021 23:07:27 GMT -5
Another test is to put a 100% filled barrel on an incline and watch how easily it rolls down it. Fill it to 60% and it will require a steeper incline to roll down it at same speed. Very interesting way to think about it.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 24, 2021 8:49:30 GMT -5
Another test is to put a 100% filled barrel on an incline and watch how easily it rolls down it. Fill it to 60% and it will require a steeper incline to roll down it at same speed. Very interesting way to think about it. Another comparison would be a composter tumbler Bob. If the barrel is filled to 100% it is balanced and cranks easily but does little to no compost mixing albeit heavy. Crank it at the suggested 60-70% fill to get optimum mixing and be ready for a physical work out. Rock tumblers are basically mixing barrels and they too require power to mix solids. Liquids different, they apply little friction to a mixing barrel. 65 gallon compost tumbler lady driven
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jun 24, 2021 11:55:47 GMT -5
When I was a kid, living on what could be considered a small share-croppers farm, we started our compost in raised ground planters (4' wide x 8' long) 3-8" high stacked block wall cinder blocks. Once the material started to break down, we'd transfer the material to 4-50 gallon barrels (thick poly plastic), the kind used to store resins, my Dad could get free from the local US Chemicals plant..........we'd modify them much like the photo above.......It accelerated the material break down to a finer mulch way faster than turning the stuff on the ground with a shovel and rake. Once the material had "cooked" long enough, we'd transfer it from the barrels into the wheel barrels and feed the gardens. We had a friend who was a welder, build us and other farmer friends, a rolling rack that was a foot off the ground, much like a rock tumbler. using 2" steel pipes and axle bearings.
It was one of my early morning task (I had many), to rotate (mix) those barrels several times each morning. I can attest to the difficulty (workout) rotating them if not properly filled or left a few days without mixing.......one of many reasons us farm boys were so good at sports, we were always in shape.........lol
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Post by Bob on Jun 25, 2021 14:20:29 GMT -5
Makes me wonder if the best grinding in a tumbler occurs at the point of maximum rolling resistance--dynamic not static.
I think there would be some relationship here also with rock avalanches in nature and how far they propagate. I imagine the steepness of the terrain obviously affects that. But I suspect the mix of sizes of what is flowing down greatly affect it too. In a way, in that tumbler, we are creating a never ending sloping terrain in an attempt to get the avalanche to never end. Like an avalanche on a sloping treadmill belt.
Certainly I've learned the hard way to never ignore my instinct about "that tumbler just doesn't sound right....". Every single time I've ignored that I've come to regret it later.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 25, 2021 18:16:59 GMT -5
Makes me wonder if the best grinding in a tumbler occurs at the point of maximum rolling resistance--dynamic not static. I think there would be some relationship here also with rock avalanches in nature and how far they propagate. I imagine the steepness of the terrain obviously affects that. But I suspect the mix of sizes of what is flowing down greatly affect it too. In a way, in that tumbler, we are creating a never ending sloping terrain in an attempt to get the avalanche to never end. Like an avalanche on a sloping treadmill belt. Certainly I've learned the hard way to never ignore my instinct about "that tumbler just doesn't sound right....". Every single time I've ignored that I've come to regret it later. This is how I look at abrasion efficiency at the avalanche (and current draw at the motor) Bob. It is all about sticky slurry in my processing be it a vibe or a rotary: A note on rocks in a vibe bouncing and rattling - the time it takes for the rocks to hit is a short period of time compared to the time it takes for the rock to bounce away and come back to make contact again. Like a basketball being dribbled only spends a short time contacting the floor. Granted it is bouncing much further but if you add a the 'away' time on the short bounce distances it adds up to a lot of the tumbling time. The rocks are not abrading when they are not in contact. Same situation in a rotary, if the rocks are tumbling down the hill in the barrel there is not much abrasion time. If they are stuck together and sliding on each other due to a tacky slurry they are in constant contact as the move down the hill. 'an avalanche mixed with thick mud'
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Post by Rockindad on Jun 25, 2021 18:52:52 GMT -5
Wanted to get me one of them lady driven models but the wife said no. What a killjoy.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 26, 2021 7:50:46 GMT -5
Just making such an inquiry is a guaranteed long term trip to the dog house Rockindad.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 26, 2021 8:10:05 GMT -5
When I was a kid, living on what could be considered a small share-croppers farm, we started our compost in raised ground planters (4' wide x 8' long) 3-8" high stacked block wall cinder blocks. Once the material started to break down, we'd transfer the material to 4-50 gallon barrels (thick poly plastic), the kind used to store resins, my Dad could get free from the local US Chemicals plant..........we'd modify them much like the photo above.......It accelerated the material break down to a finer mulch way faster than turning the stuff on the ground with a shovel and rake. Once the material had "cooked" long enough, we'd transfer it from the barrels into the wheel barrels and feed the gardens. We had a friend who was a welder, build us and other farmer friends, a rolling rack that was a foot off the ground, much like a rock tumbler. using 2" steel pipes and axle bearings. It was one of my early morning task (I had many), to rotate (mix) those barrels several times each morning. I can attest to the difficulty (workout) rotating them if not properly filled or left a few days without mixing.......one of many reasons us farm boys were so good at sports, we were always in shape.........lol Valdosta High School in south Georgia was always the team to beat. All big farm boys. The city schools could beat them occasionally with their smaller players IF and only IF the team was loaded with fast players also on 2nd and 3rd string to replace the injured starters lol. One reason I built my tumbler with heavy duty 1.5 inch solid shafts with 40 inches of length was to also mix two or three 50 pound bags of fertilizer in a 35 gallon steel drum. Like 0-0-46 with 13-13-13 and 0-25-0. Me and the worker would load and unload the 150 pound barrel to/from tumbler. Being just over 1/2 full it would wear one of us out to roll it on flat ground. It takes power to run a barrel full of solids partially full. It has also been used to roll metal parts in a 3 gallon PVC pipe barrel to remove rust and remove saw burrs that must have weighed 100 pounds. The parts were 5 inch sections of 1.5 inch pipe and created a lot of friction. Ever seen the large motors on a big ball mill ? Many of them do not have baffles, just a simple barrel. Nothing but a giant rock tumbler at about 25% fill.
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beltslipsoff
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2023
Posts: 1
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Post by beltslipsoff on Jan 16, 2023 2:25:57 GMT -5
New user - hi everyone. Ready to throw my HF dual barrel tumbler off the bay bridge! The belt slips off the pulley after only 3 seconds or so. I have been trying to solve this issue for months. Rocks were in 3rd stage and many more rocks just collecting dust. I’ve adjusted the motor location but still the belt slides off. My question - is the belt worn out so that it angles off the pulley? Or is the pulley worn out causing the belt to slide ‘downhill’ and off the pulley-rod? I thank you in advance for any tips you have for dealing with this insufferable frustrating situation 🌉😱
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