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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 13, 2021 10:55:30 GMT -5
UPDATE: FDA and CDC call for pause in use of J&J vaccine over blood clotting disorder Published: April 13, 2021 at 7:24 a.m. ET By Ciara Linnane "The two leading federal public health agencies called for an immediate pause in the use of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine on Tuesday, after six recipients in the U.S. developed a rare disorder involving blood clots within six to 13 days after being vaccinated. The news was first reported by the New York Times, citing officials briefed on the decision. " Read more at link. www.marketwatch.com/story/federal-health-agencies-to-call-for-pause-in-use-of-jj-vaccine-over-blood-clotting-disorder-new-york-times-2021-04-13I really wish they would quit calling it a vaccine, because it most definitely is not!
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 13, 2021 21:33:14 GMT -5
But wait, there's more to the story...
The "pause" on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was encouraged by the Biden administration.
The FDA said it recommended a pause of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine after receiving reports that six people experienced rare blood clots out of 6.8 million doses injected. One person died and another is in critical condition, the authorities said.
While any injuries or deaths are tragic, six incidences of clotting problems and one death, out of 6.8 MILLION doses administered is not cause to stop providing doses to people that want them. (How many deaths with the other "vaccines"?) The J & J vaccine, which is an actual vaccine by definition (inactivated or dead virus injected in order to cause an immune response) is a one dose vaccine). If I was going to run right out and get a vaccine, it would be this one, not the other two using mRNA. That's bad news.
Seems there's some political monkey business going on.
I have more information, but because it is political, I am going to put my next post IN THE CAVE. Click HERE
Unless you are a cave dweller, this post is not accessible to you. Sorry.
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tumblee
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2021
Posts: 154
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Post by tumblee on Apr 13, 2021 22:10:22 GMT -5
Cave dweller here can't access the cave. A one in 1M are much better odds than the one to 300M lottery. Everyone reacts different but It may be best to stop the spread. Limited but proven tools are all we have at this point. Name your poison, but keep the mask on please...
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Apr 14, 2021 18:12:31 GMT -5
The truth of the matter is we really don't know what the long term effects will be (shot or illness). The choice is a individual decision for sure. I just know too many people that "heard this" or "read about that on FB" who are suddenly "experts" That is why I love posting on this site, as the general population here is intelligent and can have a spirited, intelligent conversation without getting all butt hurt! Stay safe my friends!
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 14, 2021 18:48:27 GMT -5
With a lot of time on my hands these days (and nights!), I spend a lot of time online. I realize there is a lot of BS posted online as gospel truth, but I have a good BS meter, and think I do a pretty good job of filtering that out.
I present my findings for people that don't have the time or inclination to look for said information, and also to receive input from other members here.
I always try to be fair, and just throw it out there so others can make up their own minds.
It is a crying shame that the MSM won't report the news, and any little tidbit they do inform us of, is censored biggly by Big Tech. Sadly, informed decisions are a thing of the past.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 15, 2021 14:17:31 GMT -5
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Post by RickB on Apr 15, 2021 14:28:41 GMT -5
My shot card is filling up. I need a bigger card.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Apr 15, 2021 18:35:49 GMT -5
rockpickerforever Well said! And yes a 3rd (and possibly a yearly thing) dose is in the cards. Flu shot, Covid shot- gonna be a yearly thing I'm afraid.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 15, 2021 18:59:10 GMT -5
stefan , yes, annually, or for life. Whichever comes first..
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Shot 1
Apr 15, 2021 23:48:56 GMT -5
via mobile
1dave likes this
Post by stephan on Apr 15, 2021 23:48:56 GMT -5
I am not against vaccines either, but this is not a vaccine. Basically it is a flu shot. No one is even sure how long any protection from it will last.
And then there's this The Detroit News. It appears people are getting Covid even after they are suppose to be fully "vaccinated". 3 of them have died.
My sister's neighbor had the shot and was really sick from it. Her husband said she started not making any sense when she was talking. He took her to the ER. All her organs were shutting down. They opened her stomach up and it was full of blood clots. 3 surgeries later she is doing better and is expected to survive. They will be sending her to rehab when she gets out of the hospital. Can't remember if it was the Pfizer or Moderna that she got.
This morning there is a report the the J&J shot is causing blood clots.
Yeah, thanks, but no thanks until there is substantial information about the real effects of what it does and does not do to your body.
A flu shot IS a vaccine. The main reason it needs to be taken annually is there is a different strain every year
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 15, 2021 23:55:12 GMT -5
I am not against vaccines either, but this is not a vaccine. Basically it is a flu shot. No one is even sure how long any protection from it will last.
And then there's this The Detroit News. It appears people are getting Covid even after they are suppose to be fully "vaccinated". 3 of them have died.
My sister's neighbor had the shot and was really sick from it. Her husband said she started not making any sense when she was talking. He took her to the ER. All her organs were shutting down. They opened her stomach up and it was full of blood clots. 3 surgeries later she is doing better and is expected to survive. They will be sending her to rehab when she gets out of the hospital. Can't remember if it was the Pfizer or Moderna that she got.
This morning there is a report the the J&J shot is causing blood clots.
Yeah, thanks, but no thanks until there is substantial information about the real effects of what it does and does not do to your body.
A flu shot IS a vaccine. The main reason it needs to be taken annually is there is a different strain every year Then in my book, it's not a vaccine. It's a flu shot. Sometimes they don't even get their "predictions" right and it fails miserably. That is not a vaccine. It's a shot in the dark.
I have never gotten a flu shot in my life (and I just turned 62) and I have never had the flu in my life (yet - knock on wood).
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Shot 1
Apr 15, 2021 23:57:42 GMT -5
via mobile
1dave likes this
Post by stephan on Apr 15, 2021 23:57:42 GMT -5
Cave dweller here can't access the cave. A one in 1M are much better odds than the one to 300M lottery. Everyone reacts different but It may be best to stop the spread. Limited but proven tools are all we have at this point. Name your poison, but keep the mask on please... 1 in a million chance of serious side effects is also better than your odds with COVID and no vaccine. 564,399 dead with a population of 331M means that 0.17% of the US population has died, or 1705 in a million. That means the vaccine gives me 17,050-fold better odds. Glad I took the chance. My only side effects were a sore arm and weird dreams. Still biked to and from work the next day (16 miles each way).
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Shot 1
Apr 16, 2021 0:01:31 GMT -5
via mobile
1dave likes this
Post by stephan on Apr 16, 2021 0:01:31 GMT -5
A flu shot IS a vaccine. The main reason it needs to be taken annually is there is a different strain every year Then in my book, it's not a vaccine. It's a flu shot. Sometimes they don't even get their "predictions" right and it fails miserably. That is not a vaccine. It's a shot in the dark.
I have never gotten a flu shot in my life (and I just turned 62) and I have never had the flu in my life (yet - knock on wood).
You are arguing with me about my field of expertise. Spent many years in virology and immunology. The COVID vaccine is a vaccine. The flu shot is a vaccine. The best way to get a result for a particular virus varies. Sometimes it’s a subunit, sometimes it’s an attenuated analogue, sometimes it’s a killed virus. All are vaccines. The reason the flu is hard to predict is because it mutates rapidly, and has to be predicted months in advance because of the slow process for that particular vaccine.
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Shot 1
Apr 16, 2021 0:09:18 GMT -5
via mobile
1dave likes this
Post by stephan on Apr 16, 2021 0:09:18 GMT -5
rockpickerforever Well said! And yes a 3rd (and possibly a yearly thing) dose is in the cards. Flu shot, Covid shot- gonna be a yearly thing I'm afraid. In part, that depends on how many people get it. If fewer people are infected, the virus has fewer chances to mutate. In general, coronavirus s mutate more slowly than flu or HIV, but more quickly than, say measles or chickenpox.
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Post by stephan on Apr 16, 2021 0:35:02 GMT -5
My shot card is filling up. I need a bigger card. LOL. I guess if you need a bigger cards, it’s proof that we’re not being micro-chipped. HPV also was a three shot series. Because of working in a hospital, I got the hepatitis B in its early days. It was either three of four. Different surface antigens have different immunogenicity. We can be grateful we’re not dealing with a parvovirus — they create immune decoys (meaning we make antibodies that do not neutralize the virus).
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Post by stephan on Apr 16, 2021 0:44:11 GMT -5
With a lot of time on my hands these days (and nights!), I spend a lot of time online. I realize there is a lot of BS posted online as gospel truth, but I have a good BS meter, and think I do a pretty good job of filtering that out. I present my findings for people that don't have the time or inclination to look for said information, and also to receive input from other members here. I always try to be fair, and just throw it out there so others can make up their own minds. It is a crying shame that the MSM won't report the news, and any little tidbit they do inform us of, is censored biggly by Big Tech. Sadly, informed decisions are a thing of the past. Actually there is more info than ever, you just have to know where to look (hint: it’s not Fox or infowars). Info on COVID-19 is being shared far more freely than any research in the past. If you know how to read the papers, it’s there, and even in a less jargony form than usual. The “Big Tech censorship” is a myth. Too many blowhards are putting out opinions masquerading as “facts,” but because they are louder than those who speak the truth, they have a large audience
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 16, 2021 9:30:50 GMT -5
Then in my book, it's not a vaccine. It's a flu shot. Sometimes they don't even get their "predictions" right and it fails miserably. That is not a vaccine. It's a shot in the dark.
I have never gotten a flu shot in my life (and I just turned 62) and I have never had the flu in my life (yet - knock on wood).
You are arguing with me about my field of expertise. Spent many years in virology and immunology. The COVID vaccine is a vaccine. The flu shot is a vaccine. The best way to get a result for a particular virus varies. Sometimes it’s a subunit, sometimes it’s an attenuated analogue, sometimes it’s a killed virus. All are vaccines. The reason the flu is hard to predict is because it mutates rapidly, and has to be predicted months in advance because of the slow process for that particular vaccine. Not arguing with you stephan. Just stating my opinion. You may have a medical background, but you have no expertise with mRNA used as a vaccine. Nobody does. It's brand new and it's experimental. You and the rest of the folks who have offered themselves up to Big Pharma as guinea pigs will be the ones who, in the long run, determine whether this type of a treatment is even effective against this virus. The fact that people who are supposedly fully immunized are still getting Covid and dying does not give me the warm fuzzies.
And what recourse do people have in the future if these supposed vaccines end up being responsible for all kinds of other medical issues that could cause early death? None.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Apr 16, 2021 10:51:34 GMT -5
I don't know, I got my shot and it seems there have been no significant side effects that I can tell.
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Post by stephan on Apr 16, 2021 11:50:44 GMT -5
You are arguing with me about my field of expertise. Spent many years in virology and immunology. The COVID vaccine is a vaccine. The flu shot is a vaccine. The best way to get a result for a particular virus varies. Sometimes it’s a subunit, sometimes it’s an attenuated analogue, sometimes it’s a killed virus. All are vaccines. The reason the flu is hard to predict is because it mutates rapidly, and has to be predicted months in advance because of the slow process for that particular vaccine. Not arguing with you stephan . Just stating my opinion. You may have a medical background, but you have no expertise with mRNA used as a vaccine. Nobody does. It's brand new and it's experimental. You and the rest of the folks who have offered themselves up to Big Pharma as guinea pigs will be the ones who, in the long run, determine whether this type of a treatment is even effective against this virus. The fact that people who are supposedly fully immunized are still getting Covid and dying does not give me the warm fuzzies.
And what recourse do people have in the future if these supposed vaccines end up being responsible for all kinds of other medical issues that could cause early death? None.
I actually have plenty of experience working with mRNA, and it's not a brand new technology. The first vaccines were created for the first SARS outbreak, but ended up not being needed, as other measures (distancing, surveillance and mask-wearing) stopped that outbreak. The shorter incubation period made that a lot easier, among other factors. As far as effectiveness -- yes, mRNA is effective. It is the blueprint for proteins, which in turn cause the immune reaction. Please don't take this as disrespectful, but I'm going to make an analogy here, and then talk about a few other things. Please take the time to read. Since geology seems to be one branch of science that people to accept on this forum, I will use it. The statement that, in your book, the flu shot is not a vaccine is kind of like saying that obsidian is not an igneous rock, because it is different than pumice and basalt. Science, however, is not based on opinion. It is based on evidence. The evidence can and does change, but we have to start somewhere. Similarly to the immense variation in igneous rocks, there is immense variation in viruses. To use another analogy (shooting), some viruses will be relatively easy, like target shooting. Others will be more like duck-hunting (a moving target). Predicting the flu would be more like hunting ducks on meth. For influenza A alone, the surface antigens can combine in many different ways: 18 H-sub-types and 11 N-subtypes can combine in 198 different ways. Every year, a prediction of which one(s) will be dominant must be made months in advance, because the process of producing, testing, packaging and distributing vaccines takes a while. This is where the beauty of mRNA comes in. If the virus mutates, we can pivot a lot faster than we could after millions (about 140 million each year). As far far as vaccine effectiveness and safety, there are a few things to remember: - No vaccine is ever 100% effective - 5800 people have caught COVID after being fully vaccinated (75M), 75 have died. This is a death rate of 1 in a million (0.0001%), as opposed to 0.17% of unvaccinated Americans. - Full immunity takes time to develop, as the body has to go through a process called isotype switching, where the predominant antibodies mature from IgA to IgG. - The adverse clotting events did NOT happen with the mRNA vaccines. They happened with a more traditional vaccine. The pause is due to and abundance of caution, as it is not even clear that the vaccine caused them. Literally 1 in 1,000,000 could be a coincidence, or due to rare underlying causes, we shall see. In any case, the pause shows that the safety systems are working. Like the COVID death rate for the vaccinated, the adverse event rate is more than 17,000-fold lower than your chances of dying from COVID, if you are not vaccinated. What I find interesting is that people rebel against every single tool that the government has at its disposal: distancing, masking, vaccination. And they fail to remember that this is not like failing to wear a seatbelt. If you do not wear a seatbelt, you endanger only yourself. With infectious diseases, you risk the lives of others as well. As for not having recourse if there is an adverse event from a vaccine, what recourse do you have from death by COVID? Or long-haul symptoms. I personally know at least three people who are long-haulers. They do not know if they will ever get better. Luckily, there is data that suggest that the vaccine may help some of these people by helping them fully clear the infection. Others may not be so lucky. I encourage people disregard the propaganda about scientists. Sure, the can be bad apples, like everywhere, but most of us are working long hours and making far less money than we could in other fields. When unfounded, untrue "information" is spread, often with astonishing gall and venom, it is quite hurtful, in addition to being dangerous. Just remember that often the people who initiate this information have no skin in the game when it comes to truth. They simply get paid more for more eyeballs.
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Post by stephan on Apr 16, 2021 11:51:18 GMT -5
I don't know, I got my shot and it seems there have been no significant side effects that I can tell.
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