Calling all rock tumblers! Tumbling 101 input is needed!

[pebblerock]

Using masking tape, on barrel, to keep track of material and what stage you are at.
Learned that from reading here somewhere.

[lordsorril]

Looking up tumbling recipes online can be a good way to figure out where to start with a particular type of stone...however, there can be many variables in individual technique that are not listed.  I would recommend experimenting with small amounts of material in a single barrel before scaling up (especially with more expensive rough).

[nursetumbler]

Paging ingawh. Please explain your gel tumbling method. O!M!G! RTH family it's been a life saver with my poor quality store bought rough. ingawh would be best to explain it though.

[dshanpnw]

Hello, I've been tumbling for about 1 1/4 years. Read about tumbling before you start. There are a few really helpful well written books just for tumbling. Choosing an easy to tumble recommended type rock for the best results on your first tumble is a great tip. Start with a jasper or agate like everyone says is best. What is jasper and what is an agate you might say? If you don't know, or you can't find them in your area then it might be best to search the online rock shops. Be prepared to pay a little more than what you had in mind for a good quality reputable tumbler, it will be worth it. Thanks

Doug

[JR8675309]

Create a note on your iPhone or other text and picture capable app on your phone. Indicate tumbler (mine have letters on them), date the stage started, grit/polish amount, description of content and picture of the rocks.

To open barrel, insert of edge of washing between bottom lip of lid and where it meets barrel. Turn the washer... this breaks the seal. Anytime you have opened the barrel, place the washer back on the inner lid post and screw on the nut, thus making them easy to find.

[electrocutus]

When you go out for a jog in a nice riverrside trail, it's hard to finish your run with rocks in your pockets :-) I learned that this weekend!
So, always bring a small bag to carry found treasures :-)

[electrocutus]

Apr 2, 2022 6:45:05 GMT -5 nursetumbler said:

Paging ingawh . Please explain your gel tumbling method. O!M!G! RTH family it's been a life saver with my poor quality store bought rough. ingawh would be best to explain it though.

I am very curious. I have never hear of gel tumbling.

[catskillrocks]

Here is a post from ingawh that I saved:



May 26, 2018 at 4:27am tkvancil, woodman, and 2 more like this
Quote

Post by ingawh on May 26, 2018 at 4:27am
Hi John,

Welcome to the joys of the Lot-O! I've polished hundreds of loads in my Lot-O, and started with some botched batches, but once I got the hang of it, I fell in love with the darn thing, and now I swear by it!

I agree with the folks that recommend adding water very sparingly. (Too much water can halt the rolling action and the stones just start chattering off each other. Been there, done that.)

My polish slurry is made by starting with damp stones (no standing water), then I add 5-6 pumps of liquid handsoap and 1/4 tsp each of 500 AO and psyllium fiber (Metamucil) as a thickener. I use very small, well-polished quartz and agate filler. I usually let a 7-mohs load run for 24 hours. I check it after about 20 minutes and adjust, as needed, with either a squirt or two of water to loosen things up, or a sprinkle of psyllium if it's too foamy and thin. (My slurry is more of a gel than a liquid.) I check it again in an hour or so, then let it run about 12 hours, and check it one more time, and may add another spray or two of water, but usually not much. I do not follow the instructions that come with it and wash the stones and recharge with barrel after 12 hours. I let it keep running, because the AO is breaking down and becoming it's own polish. Often 24 hours is enough, but with softer stones like obsidian, 48 hours usually does the trick. Still, I do NOT recharge the barrel. I also use the quartz and agate filler with obsidian, (often at 1:1 or more of the filler, especially if you're working with larger pieces).

I know my method is heresy to some folks, but the shine I get makes me really happy, and my method is so easy (once you get the feel of it) it's laughable! I have polished really finicky, chippy, stuff, like porcelanite, and my method is also super gentle and lets me coax a shine onto unusual stuff. I polished basalt recently that came out almost as shiny as my obsidian. (BTW, I make my polished filler out of aquarium gravel from Petco. It works better for me for bringing out a deep, liquid shine on obsidian than ceramic filler.)

To keep the lid from popping off: Chain together some rubber bands (I use just 2 great-big ones, but a number of smaller ones would also work) and run them under the barrel, looping one rubber band around the lid from each side so that they cross each other and hold the lid in place. I like to polish large stones in the Lot-O, and sometimes they push the lid up, the rubber bands will pull it back in place and keep the slurry from drying out.

Clean up is extra easy with my method, because the psyllium captures the grit and particles in the gel, which adheres to itself rather than the rock, so it pops out easily from any pits or cracks. In fact, when you get the recipe right, you'll find that at the end of the tumble, the lid is just damp, but doesn't even seem to have slurry on it. It's all down in the barrel and on the rocks, until you wash it off.

Feel free to ask any other questions - lots of know-how in this group. And I love talking about this stuff!

Best wishes,

Inga

[Tommy]

The first round of general preparation tips went incredibly well and it also seems to have tapered off a bit so lets launch the next phase and see what you guys come up with.

This thread is open for information gathering from which a consolidated informational page and hopefully soon a peer-reviewed article will result.

Vol 2. subject is "Pro Tips" Please think deep about the big things and little things that you KNOW bring you rotary tumbling success and that you have incorporated into your normal routine and don't have to think about it anymore.


Guidelines - please feel free to dive deep now into "Pro Tips" level on subjects that involve the more technical stages of tumbling, recharging, burnishing, cleaning up, etc.

- Post any general instructions or advice, grits to have, soft or challenging material recipes, rock types advice, pre-grinding for success, tips, tricks, cautions, finishing strategies etc. Anything that you use or think about when you know you are working on a high quality rotary tumble run.

- For "Pro Tips" feel free to venture into more information specific to the type or size tumbler as it relates to having success with that type or style of tumbler.

- Don't worry about or debate what anyone else has posted - differences in opinion or redundancy is OK this will all be sorted out later. It doesn't matter if we get the same concept posted twenty times. Everyone will say it a bit differently that adds value to the process of sorting.

- Try to again structure your post(s) in short and concise one or two sentences resembling this guidelines list, that are easy to read and glean information from. Post as often as possible as new thoughts come to you.

- No questions in this thread please - lets try keep this thread clean and flowing and free from chit-chat as much as possible.

- If you know of an RTH Forum original post similar to this, or you know that you recently dropped some pure gold nuggets of information in a different thread, please post the link as part of your submission, or even better, copy and paste parts of the contents (even if it wasn't your post) and let us know what thread it came from.

- and finally, please no copying and pasting from website articles from other websites outside of the RTH Forum. I want this to be entirely organic from the minds of our community.

Thank you everyone!

[fernwood]

I usually use a 5 stage tumbling process for rotary.
60/80 SIC.
120/220 SIC.
600 SIC or AO depending on what is being tumbled.
1200 AO pre-polish.
Then either 10,000 or AO or TO or Tripoli for final polish.

A lot depends on the rocks/fossils and their hardness. I will add stage specific ceramic tumble media or stage specific tumbling plastic pellets.
Sometimes will reduce barrel size from 3 pound to 1 pound for the last two stages.
All depends on how mush the rocks/fossils reduced in size.

Will also use special rocks/fossil to media ratios for some things. Crystals (quartz/amethyst), Obsidian, and fossils may need more cushioning to prevent cracking or major volume loss.

[greig]

Novice tip - have patience
Pro tip - refer to novice tip.

[Tommy]

Apr 12, 2022 13:53:42 GMT -5 greig said:

Novice tip - have patience
Pro tip - refer to novice tip.

thats it in a nutshell, we'll stop there haha

[perkins17]

In going to start with grit sizes.
60/90 works great for coarse in smaller tumblers, such as a 4 lber or smaller.
I run this step for as long as necessary in order to get the rocks smooth and shaped.
120/220 is the second step I use, running for one week or more to remove 60/90 scratches.
500 or 600 aluminum oxide or silicon carbide is what I use for step three.
14,000 aluminum oxide from the rock shed is what I use for final polishing.
Some pro tips:
1. Wash everything carefully between stages. Collapsible sinks work great. I use one meant for cleaning fish that hooks up to the hose. Don't ever wash the rocks inside. It can ruin your plumbing.
2. Pick stones that will do well together in the barrel. Make sure they are around the same hardness. If you put a significantly softer stone in with extremely hard others, it will disappear pretty quick.
3. Filler is necessary to get the best results because when the level goes down, bruising can happen. I use ceramic media because it can be used in all stages.
4. Make sure to occasionally open the barrel because of gas buildup. If you don't open it, the tumbler might "explode" and spray rocks, grit, and water all over.
5. Supplies are cheaper in bulk. My favorite and most inexpensive vendors for grit, tumblers, and tumbling supplies is The Rock Shed for polish and grit and Kingsley North for the first few stages in bulk.
I hope this is a valuable contribution to this thread and is helpful to newer tumblers.
-Perkins17

[lordsorril]

Pro-Tip:  Soft stones can still have bits of hard matrix attached.  Run them at #500 AOx grit for a few days and then separate the 'problem' pieces before they ruin your batch.

[lordsorril]

Pro-Tips:  Check the size of your ceramics in the Polish stage.  If they are looking 'thin' then you should replace them--a single piece of cracked/broken ceramic can ruin a batch.

               If you are using ceramics as cushioning:  make sure you knock the edges off with a bit of SiC in a rotary beforehand.

              Quartz gravel can work as a cheap alternative to ceramics, however, it has a greater tendency to crack as it thins--and some pieces will wear down faster than others: requiring frequent checks (time vs. money).

              Ceramics (like grit) can also be bought in bulk.   

              Ebay can have good deals on bulk lapidary grit (SiC and AOx): be wary of any seller without overwhelming positive feedback, and completely avoid any with 'poor communication'. 
              Before you commit to a large purchase on a questionable seller: ask (or buy) a 'sample'...the quality of all grits are not created equal.



              

[CLErocks]

Apr 4, 2022 10:05:34 GMT -5 electrocutus said:

Apr 2, 2022 6:45:05 GMT -5 nursetumbler said:

Paging ingawh . Please explain your gel tumbling method. O!M!G! RTH family it's been a life saver with my poor quality store bought rough. ingawh would be best to explain it though.

I am very curious. I have never hear of gel tumbling.

I found her post before my Lot-O arrived.
I’ve exclusively used her method and it’s excellent.
I do only the rough grit in my two Lortone 3bs and everything is finished in my Lot-O.

[RedWingTumbler]

A couple things off the top of my head:
1) Add water before you add grit. That way you can pour off the extra if you overfill without losing any grit.
2) For harder rocks, keep them in coarse until they are smooth.

[Benathema]

I fill with hot water then seal the barrel. When it cools that vapor/air in the headspace will lower in pressure. You see this as you barrel bottom sucked inward. I think it helps offset some gas buildup and keeps the lid on a bit better. Combine that with maybe screwing that nut on a little tighter than they say... I haven't had a blow out in 3 years at this point.

Related... Don't reuse slurry if it has been contaminated by sugar and has had time on air. Yeast set up shop and using that as a slurry additive just gave them a wet, dark, warm, anaerobic environment to ferment. Barrel go boom.

Speaking of slurry additives. They thicken. Increase the viscosity, if you will. Stage 1 it's about getting the grit suspended so the grinding happens quickly. Efficiency relating to most material removal in the shortest period of time. It's the longest stage and can be the limiting factor in your throughput. However, the later stages it's about slowing the rocks down to reduce bruising, chipping, or breaking (this is actually happening in stage 1 as well, btw). Get something between the rocks so they don't hit each other as hard. That concept takes many forms and where you find a lot of different answers. Plastic beads, ceramics, sugar, agar, metamucil, clay, newspaper, sawdust, and corncob are some that come to mind. They all, even in combination, try to provide that cushioning. Save for the ceramics, these additives don't really help polish much on their own. Maybe a little, since they help carry the polishing compound. You may have to extend the polish time to make up for the reduced action.

I think I'm wandering into the rhubarb from "pro tips" to "concept mapping."

[stefan]

My "perfect" recipe:
60/90 for 2 weeks then recharge. I run a 12 Lb barrel only so I just pull out the finished ones and recharge and reload.
120/220 2 to 3 weeks
500 Sic 2 weeks (with pellets)
Tripoli (or AO 1200) 2 weeks with pellets
AO Polish (or Tin Oxide if I have the money lol) 2 weeks with pellets
Borax 24 hours (with pellets)
I have separate barrels for every stage (except Borax- this uses the polish barrels)
I have seperate Pellets (including Borax) for all stages that use them.
I do save and dry out my slurry for every stage (except Borax).
I have separate cleaning buckets for every stage.

[Bob]

What's a pro? I was expecting someone to ask that. When I started tumbling would have had no idea on the answer. Now that am in my 8th year of it, would be tempted to say at least 5 years experience with a wide variety of materials. But that's not right because someone who only tumbles sodalite could certainly give some pro tips for it.

No way to summarize w/o writing a book so I will just try to add one thing. For the last 5 years or so, I've been

50-60 rough grind as long as it takes (weeks, months, sometimes many months) with weekly recharges to get rid of all defects
80 for a week
220 for a week
600 for a week
1,000 for a week
[1,200 for a week for those non-polishable rocks like granites/gabbro/etc. for which this must be the last step]
polish for week 1
polish for week 2
burnish for 3-12 hrs

The main nugget I want to impart is if rough grind is truly done as long as is needed, then any stage after that doesn't take longer than a week. UNLESS, some random defect is uncovered which isn't common.

My favorite two stages are these. I get real excited after first week in rough grind of field found rocks when the weather rind has come off. Wow--this is when one realizes you've really picked up something special, or that you picked up a piece of crap and wasted a week and money on it. The other one for me is after that week in 600. I used to think that after 220 I was seeing how pretty the rock would be in the end, but I've changed my mind and go with 600.