|
Post by liveoak on May 21, 2022 8:40:06 GMT -5
Seems to me you should get some panniers for the dogs to help haul rocks.
It would be an outing for them :-)
Patty
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 21, 2022 12:04:45 GMT -5
Thursday's trip solved a big mystery. IMO all this material silicified close by in situ. The loose material has simply been transported a short distance by on-site erosion and hill collapsing of higher elevations. This is big a game changer. Now the goal is to find the most favorable and undisturbed long term silicification conditions and collect at these conditions. The only way to know if the rock was and is in prime conditions is to harvest it(pry it out of)from the clay it has silicified in. Loose rocks are often transported from poor silicification conditions and often have fractures and pulpy sections. It is difficult to tell if rocks in a creek were transported from poor conditions or eroded out of favorable conditions. The big riddle is how much time did the silicification process take. 100-1,000-10,000 years ? For creation theory to be true less than 6000 years. The flood theory is becoming more legitimate with recent research and technological advances. Probably half of 6000 years since it took time for the trees to grow, then die, perhaps become waterlogged, go thru deposition and/or sedimentation processes and then silicify. I believe many answers of the flood theory can be answered by learning more about the rates and conditions of the silicification process. This is a medium sized (25 pounder) harvested from excellent and uninterrupted(wet) silica generating conditions: Prettiest view seems to be quarter sawn Flat sawn is streakier, inside of tree Flat sawn behind bark the least attractive, cross grain cut. where are the rings ?!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 21, 2022 12:17:32 GMT -5
Seems to me you should get some panniers for the dogs to help haul rocks.
It would be an outing for them :-) Patty
The Upahee Creek is the ultimate dog creek Patty. Either sand or small pebbles, 100 to 300 feet wide, very shallow and flat, clean brisk water. This would never go over in Florida but the soils are delicate there, the ATV and 4wd folks ride up and down the creek in Bama. One of those creeks can be driven on for 30 miles. All of them at low water though. I do drag old 12 foot poly kayaks full of rocks thru the forests on occasion. Often tying a long ski rope to the kayak and pulling it with the jeep. The dogs would tell me where to get off at, some lazy hounds lol.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 21, 2022 15:20:30 GMT -5
Driftwood broken into smaller pieces. Fungus also reduces wood into small pieces in peat bogs.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on May 21, 2022 22:04:34 GMT -5
Are these layers too flat and straight to be wood? Even if not wood they are still winners!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 22, 2022 2:19:27 GMT -5
Are these layers too flat and straight to be wood? Even if not wood they are still winners! The grey sections often appear to be layered sand deposits Dave. This material fossilized in sand, see Tallahatta Sandstone. Here is a great example, looks like(layered ?) sand on left, and wood or vascular plant tissue in red on right. Sharp observations Dave. Most of this material has no annual rings suggesting it is a vascular plant and not wood. I found 12 inch diameter fossilized horsetail 150 miles northwest of here at same ancient shore elevation. Horsetail is certainly a vascular plant ! This appears to be the same wood or plant from same location with a different silicification, note the banding is all the same thickness suggesting a vascular plant. Annual rings vary in thickness, vascular structure usually stays the same thickness throughout: closer in, note exactly equal spacing of vertical bands - got to be vascular and not wood. Giant wetland rush, solid bamboo, i.e. a hard, straight growing vascular plant. NO LIMB KNOTS = vascular plant this also from same site closer in I will start sawing other variations of silicified samples like the above two samples. The plant appears to be a monoculture of one species. However silicifications vary tremendously and repeatedly based on moisture levels of soil. This deposit is in various soils that vary from dry to permanently inundated and likely in silicification mode this moment. Cool site, may unlock some silicification mysteries, key to understanding our fossil record and rate of silicification...
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 22, 2022 2:21:57 GMT -5
Closely related 1dave - quick brief on Tallahatta Sandstone: www.geoarchaeology.southalabama.edu/tal-sand_sedimentology.htmlMuch of Tallahatta sandstone is made of sharper sub-angular sand and not rounded beach sand. Probably from the largest sand deposit in the world eroding from high speed cavitation induced erosion from the receding waters of the central continental ocean. Tallahatta sandstone deposit layer is no slouch at 40m/170 feet thick. That is a lot of silicified sandstone and a lot of liquid silica.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 22, 2022 2:59:49 GMT -5
Advanced pecky fungus thrives on cypress logs buried deep in peat bogs and can turn a single log into 100's of small pieces. Trees are not always divided into small pieces by violent forces, fungus and rot does a fine job. Such pockets in sunken logs become impacted with sand whe under water. Do not attempt to turn a bowl out of a sunken log if you respect your cutting chisels.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on May 22, 2022 11:44:57 GMT -5
This belongs here James! Ah, this inner continental sea as it relates to the(it's shoreline) Fall Line, the largest sand deposit in the world along the Gulf coast, and a massive oil deposit under the massive sand deposit. When this sea receded at great speeds toward the Gulf(just as the Mississippi River flows south into the Gulf) due to a rapid heating event it washed all living organisms and high speed flow induced cavitation sand production across central North America into the Gulf. And deposited massive amounts of volcanic ash forming thick caliche deposits in south Texas via the Rio Grande drainage along with billions of fine cobblized agates/woods/jaspers from Mexican, Colorado, New Mexican and Texan lava fields. This inner continental ocean drained in a southerly direction rapidly: That is why there is the world's largest high speed cavitation induced sand deposit in the world in the Gulf. That is why there is massive oil deposits due to massive depositions of living organisms under the sand along the Gulf Coast. That is why there is massive chert and fossil deposits at and below the Fall Line. That is why there is billions of rounded agates/woods/jaspers with known origins from the upstream states along the Rio drainage in south Texas. That is why there is massive caliche deposits from the lava fields of upstream states along the Rio drainage in south Texas. That is why there is large cobble hills along the Rio Grande in south Texas left by cobble deposits at the inside turns of the flood water drainage. It was a giant version of the Missoula flood(s). What caused it ? Ice dam(s) ? Cosmic impact(s) causing great worldwide heating ? The cause may be unknown or complex but the evidence of this catastrophic receding water event is overwhelming. Down south anyway. The high flows eroded the north, the deposits ended up in the south. There is two conclusions to a rapid drainage, erosion of higher elevations and sedimentation deposition on lower elevations. Which one is easier to analyze, the erosion or the deposition ? IMO it is the deposition.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 22, 2022 12:27:09 GMT -5
It is a good addition to this thread since it related to fossil deposition in Alabama due to receding waters 1dave. Just for the record it was posted to your group PM including Jean, Robin, Randy, gemfeller and me.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 22, 2022 19:43:20 GMT -5
From a 10 pounder found in prime permanently wet silicification strata type zone with different color patterns. Also has hints of palm ! Hints of palm tubes in edge. Silicification can distort or erase details. Prefer palm over wood. This may explain the missing annual rings. Palm would suggest a tropical climate. hmmm The fossil may have a strong story, they usually do if you look close enough.
|
|
lparsons
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2020
Posts: 276
|
Post by lparsons on May 22, 2022 22:19:32 GMT -5
Advanced pecky fungus thrives on cypress logs buried deep in peat bogs and can turn a single log into 100's of small pieces. Trees are not always divided into small pieces by violent forces, fungus and rot does a fine job. Such pockets in sunken logs become impacted with sand whe under water. Do not attempt to turn a bowl out of a sunken log if you respect your cutting chisels. I have never seen anything like that before… it’s absolutely gorgeous!🤗
|
|
|
Post by RickB on May 23, 2022 5:20:06 GMT -5
jamesp - In Alabama right now, torrential rain from a depression coming in from the Gulf. That will wash the wood off.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 23, 2022 5:32:13 GMT -5
Advanced pecky fungus thrives on cypress logs buried deep in peat bogs and can turn a single log into 100's of small pieces. Trees are not always divided into small pieces by violent forces, fungus and rot does a fine job. Such pockets in sunken logs become impacted with sand whe under water. Do not attempt to turn a bowl out of a sunken log if you respect your cutting chisels. I have never seen anything like that before… it’s absolutely gorgeous!🤗 Pecky cypress is a big business in Florida lparsons. It is also an old Florida tradition to panel the inside of a home with it. It used to be hated by the timber industry in the 1800's when cypress lumber was used for practical lumber. It is not uncommon to find 100 to 200 year old floating logs with a 2 to 3 inch deep pyramidal shaped ax cut in the surface of the log to find out if the tree had been damaged by the pecky fungus. If attacked by fungus, the tree was useless for lumber. Sometime in the 1900's people saw the beauty in the pecky wood and started sawing it for decorative paneling, funky furniture and art. Lake Rodman is a large Florida lake that was made with a dam and a big failure due to flooding vast 40' deep peat floodplains that were ancient cypress log graveyards. 6' to 8' diameter cypress logs started floating up in mass. Locals started towing the logs to their shorelines and making millions of dollars sawing the ancient logs. Then the Corp of Engineers had to get involved because of the fighting over the valuable logs and the fortunes being made off of government property lol. It was a political mess. To this day the ancient forest bottom can be seen thru the clear lake water at certain locations. The lake bottom is riddled with 25 foot diameter rotted cypress stumps where the peat floated away. I owned property on that lake and counted the growth rings on some of those large log sections. Damn things kept floating up against my shoreline being on the downwind side.(no problem, the log poachers would haul them off at night lol). Interestingly the logs averaged 3000 to 6000 years old. Most of them averaged about 50 to 100 annual growth rings per inch, very slow growing. Must have been an impressive forest rivaling the sequoia forests. I never could figure out why scientists did not make age studies of these logs.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 23, 2022 5:49:43 GMT -5
jamesp - In Alabama right now, torrential rain from a depression coming in from the Gulf. That will wash the wood off. Thanks for the heads up Rick. My dogs just woke me up, it is hitting here now doing about 3 to 6 inches per hour in short bursts(I hope). The creek I collect at was at a 2 year low for the past 3 days which was perfect for collecting. Yes it will get a serious polishing but it will fill back with water. It would take me 10 trips to pick a 5' x 5' section of the creek bottom clean lol. Guess what, I am going to contact one of the land owners of the wood deposit(got to do some deposit research first). I am looking for a place to build a cabin because the mountain property did not work out due to builders having 2 year backlogs. I will make good profit on selling the well appreciated mountain lot and am looking for another less desirable cabin location. The land costs are cheap in this area. I would consider opening it up to collectors like the flint ridge farm. Any thoughts ?
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 23, 2022 6:05:46 GMT -5
RickB - I am located at the 'S' in South Fulton. This tiny storm just dumped 3 inches in 30 minutes and is still pommeling us and the bigger ones south of us are headed this way too or hopefully shift just east of us. Looking at radar it looked like it would have dumped a half inch. Weather gone wild, what's up.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 23, 2022 6:38:16 GMT -5
Funny thing about fossils, small details can be very telling. If this is palmwood it was likely growing on site or near telling of a tropical climate. Looks like palm structure at edge. Silicified coral often reveals polyps/corralites only at the very edge. Judging from the strata at this site it is set up perfectly for silicification in situ; now origin and species may no longer be a question. South Louisiana, south Texas, south Mississippi and to a much lesser degree south Alabama is known for their silicified palm. "Petrified palm wood is the Louisiana state fossil and is characterized by prominent rod-like structures within the regular grain of the silicified wood. These rod-like structures are sclerenchyma bundles that give the palm tree its vertical strength. In Louisiana, petrified palm wood belongs to the genera Palmoxylon." "Petrified palmwood is more properly referred to as a fossil rather than a stone. Regardless, Petrified palmwood, (Palmoxylon sp.,) is the state stone of Texas. It was adopted on March 26, 1969 when Governor Preston Earnest Smith signed House Concurrent Resolution No. 12." Texas is king of fossilized/silicified palm with over 400 species preserved. Only 9 species are known to exist in N America today. Telling of the diversity back then. This wood found on site and appears to have palm like appearance. And I found a small river rock that looked 100% palm. An acquaintance south of this site reported finding palm. This one sawed at a 30 degree angle to grain which would cut the palm 'tubes' short. The white traces look like palm 'tubes'. I don't collect this black wood. It could be a different species. It obviously has annual rings UNLIKE a palm. And there are no 'tube' terminations as cross cut palm has. Yet it has no limb knots as a palm. This looks like mahogany without limb knots, and layered sand to left go figure. An enigma. Makes no sense. This is the most common type on site.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on May 23, 2022 9:46:03 GMT -5
jamesp - In Alabama right now, torrential rain from a depression coming in from the Gulf. That will wash the wood off. Thanks for the heads up Rick. My dogs just woke me up, it is hitting here now doing about 3 to 6 inches per hour in short bursts(I hope). The creek I collect at was at a 2 year low for the past 3 days which was perfect for collecting. Yes it will get a serious polishing but it will fill back with water. It would take me 10 trips to pick a 5' x 5' section of the creek bottom clean lol. Guess what, I am going to contact one of the land owners of the wood deposit(got to do some deposit research first). I am looking for a place to build a cabin because the mountain property did not work out due to builders having 2 year backlogs. I will make good profit on selling the well appreciated mountain lot and am looking for another less desirable cabin location. The land costs are cheap in this area. I would consider opening it up to collectors like the flint ridge farm. Any thoughts ?That is an excellent idea! What a great way to meet RTHers!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on May 23, 2022 9:56:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up Rick. My dogs just woke me up, it is hitting here now doing about 3 to 6 inches per hour in short bursts(I hope). The creek I collect at was at a 2 year low for the past 3 days which was perfect for collecting. Yes it will get a serious polishing but it will fill back with water. It would take me 10 trips to pick a 5' x 5' section of the creek bottom clean lol. Guess what, I am going to contact one of the land owners of the wood deposit(got to do some deposit research first). I am looking for a place to build a cabin because the mountain property did not work out due to builders having 2 year backlogs. I will make good profit on selling the well appreciated mountain lot and am looking for another less desirable cabin location. The land costs are cheap in this area. I would consider opening it up to collectors like the flint ridge farm. Any thoughts ?That is an excellent idea! what a great way to meet RTHers! The Facebook flint knappers are waiting in line. But I doubt this stuff will knap well which will turn their interest off. Won't know till it is heat treated. About the easiest rock to make tumbles out of since it breaks in rectangles/squares/slabs naturally. Beautiful lot with numerous 2-3 foot fall line waterfalls. 15-20 minutes from nice small town with full amenities. Looks like old family land, probably highly sentimental, may not want to sell. Taking electric scooter tomorrow to do a perimeter land appraisal and test more distant wood samples. It will take 20 miles of trail (and no trail) riding to get a thorough appraisal.
|
|
|
Post by RickB on May 23, 2022 10:09:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up Rick. My dogs just woke me up, it is hitting here now doing about 3 to 6 inches per hour in short bursts(I hope). The creek I collect at was at a 2 year low for the past 3 days which was perfect for collecting. Yes it will get a serious polishing but it will fill back with water. It would take me 10 trips to pick a 5' x 5' section of the creek bottom clean lol. Guess what, I am going to contact one of the land owners of the wood deposit(got to do some deposit research first). I am looking for a place to build a cabin because the mountain property did not work out due to builders having 2 year backlogs. I will make good profit on selling the well appreciated mountain lot and am looking for another less desirable cabin location. The land costs are cheap in this area. I would consider opening it up to collectors like the flint ridge farm. Any thoughts ?That is an excellent idea! What a great way to meet RTHers! jamesp "If you build it, they will come."
|
|