mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 164
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Post by mgroothuis on Mar 16, 2023 7:31:52 GMT -5
I've been tumbling for about 5-6 months now. I've learned that I need both a grinder and a trim saw of some sort. But, occasionally, I want to polish rocks by hand.
I looked at the KN Cabber 6, but I don't do cabochons (but would LOVE to use it to polish rocks). I've looked at the All-U-Need flat lap for grinding, but sometimes I need a saw.
Combo units seem to be a solid choice, but I have no experience. Has anyone used the Kingsley North Cut-to-cab 6" CTC6? Covington has the 6" Diamond Combo too.
Looking for advice. This has probably been asked before, but most searches come up cabbing advice or old equipment.
Thanks!
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Mar 16, 2023 13:26:51 GMT -5
I've never heard of the machine you mention, but Hi-Tech offers a more affordable option for both slant cabber and trim saw. I got the 6" version of the slant cab and wish I could have done the 8" and then the trim saw is fine to do just that (mine is the 4/5" saw, they have a bigger), but it's really only good for trimming, not slabbing (unless you have a small rock then it works ok). There are far superior machines out there, but I didn't have thousands to drop on them. I would love a slab saw, but everywhere I look they are at least $600-800 and that's on a good day
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 164
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Post by mgroothuis on Mar 16, 2023 14:06:55 GMT -5
I've never heard of the machine you mention, but Hi-Tech offers a more affordable option for both slant cabber and trim saw. I got the 6" version of the slant cab and wish I could have done the 8" and then the trim saw is fine to do just that (mine is the 4/5" saw, they have a bigger), but it's really only good for trimming, not slabbing (unless you have a small rock then it works ok). There are far superior machines out there, but I didn't have thousands to drop on them. I would love a slab saw, but everywhere I look they are at least $600-800 and that's on a good day Thanks for the reply. It's tough when there are SO many choices out there, seemingly all of which aren't cheap. I've looked at the Hi-Tech options too. The one thing I don't like about them are the integrated motors. I'd love to be able to use any motor should something go bad. A 6" Hi-Tech trim saw shipped is about $600. The Flat Lap is about $650. For a couple hundred more, I can have a solid stainless, serviceable, combo unit. I'm not afraid to pay up a little if it's truly quality and will last. I've just never used anything like it, or know what to expect, since all I want to do is trim and grind. I have no interest in a slab saw. I ain't going that far down the lapidary rabbit hole quite yet! haha
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Mar 16, 2023 14:11:54 GMT -5
I've never heard of the machine you mention, but Hi-Tech offers a more affordable option for both slant cabber and trim saw. I got the 6" version of the slant cab and wish I could have done the 8" and then the trim saw is fine to do just that (mine is the 4/5" saw, they have a bigger), but it's really only good for trimming, not slabbing (unless you have a small rock then it works ok). There are far superior machines out there, but I didn't have thousands to drop on them. I would love a slab saw, but everywhere I look they are at least $600-800 and that's on a good day Thanks for the reply. It's tough when there are SO many choices out there, seemingly all of which aren't cheap. I've looked at the Hi-Tech options too. The one thing I don't like about them are the integrated motors. I'd love to be able to use any motor should something go bad. A 6" Hi-Tech trim saw shipped is about $600. The Flat Lap is about $650. For a couple hundred more, I can have a solid stainless, serviceable, combo unit. I'm not afraid to pay up a little if it's truly quality and will last. I've just never used anything like it, or know what to expect, since all I want to do is trim and grind. I have no interest in a slab saw. I ain't going that far down the lapidary rabbit hole quite yet! haha I agree about the motors. They are all stuck in a plastic box. I'm not mechanically handy, but my husband is so that's a definite draw back. The slant cabber I got for Christmas so I only sunk about $350 on the trim saw myself. Although I've said several times I wish I had of just saved up and got something I can slab with also - I'm trying cabbing, very new at it, so didn't feel I should spend a ton of money until I knew if I could do it, or even liked doing it. It's hard to know what to go with when there are a bunch of options. Sounds like a combo unit would be the way to go for what you want though. Hopefully someone with some experience will chime in soon for you.
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Post by manofglass on Mar 16, 2023 14:55:00 GMT -5
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Mar 16, 2023 17:22:27 GMT -5
been there done that. Started with 1 tumbler, then a second, third, forth, fifth, now have 6. Started with a 7 inch tile saw, then added a cheap (HF drillmaster) 4inch thin blade tile saw, then a 2 wheel cabber, then went through a very difficult midlife crisis, and ended up with a 14" slab saw, and a CabKing 6" diamond wheel cab machine. Oh lets not mention the Dumore flex shaft tool, and the 3 dremel tools and a dremel drill press and flexshaft, Want to talk about the 800 lbs of rough rock? How about the 60plus pounds of course grit. Oh and I nearly forgot the recent addition of several flat lap for the ends of the cabber. Wish I had better advise, but no matter which way you go, you will want more, or different.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 164
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Post by mgroothuis on Mar 16, 2023 19:08:27 GMT -5
been there done that. Started with 1 tumbler, then a second, third, forth, fifth, now have 6. Started with a 7 inch tile saw, then added a cheap (HF drillmaster) 4inch thin blade tile saw, then a 2 wheel cabber, then went through a very difficult midlife crisis, and ended up with a 14" slab saw, and a CabKing 6" diamond wheel cab machine. Oh lets not mention the Dumore flex shaft tool, and the 3 dremel tools and a dremel drill press and flexshaft, Want to talk about the 800 lbs of rough rock? How about the 60plus pounds of course grit. Oh and I nearly forgot the recent addition of several flat lap for the ends of the cabber. Wish I had better advise, but no matter which way you go, you will want more, or different. MAN, I hear you. I already have 3 rotary tumblers, and a Lot-O. At this point, I have no interest in cabs, but the idea of polishing select rocks on a cabber is enticing. I'm seriously trying to keep this in check following the main direction that I want to go. I especially enjoy the golf ball to lemon-sized rocks. Obviously, in a tumbler, they're a serious commitment to get smooth. Slow and steady... I see that I'm not alone here.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 16, 2023 19:31:32 GMT -5
I have no experience with the KN machine, or any combo machine actually. I have a Genie and a lot of different sized trim saws and slab saws. BUT from the looks of it and for what you want to do, I believe it would be a good choice for you. You may want to do a search for reviews and see if you find any, but the folks who have the KN cabbing machine like it a lot. KN is a solid company and I believe if you had any difficulties with it, they would make it right.
If you are only wanting to saw small stones, the 6" saw should suffice.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Mar 16, 2023 19:37:22 GMT -5
The Rock Rascal Model "T" is a good companion tool for tumbling. It has a 6" trim saw and room for one 6" diameter x 1.5" wide wheel on the side. So with a coarse wheel mounted on it you can trim saw and rough grind rocks to prepare for tumbling.
And if you would like to occasionally cut cabochons you can do that too simply by changing wheels. Years ago a rock shop in western NC used to sell a kit they put together that consisted of the Rock Rascal Model "T", a 100 grit SC Wheel, a 220 grit SC wheel, a 6" x 1.5" rubber Expando sanding drum, 400 and 600 grit SC belts to use with the Expando drum, and a 6" hard felt wheel for polishing. An inexpensive way to get into cabbing. Anyone could put together a similar accessory package to use with a model "T" or even better yet one with diamond wheels and belts or soft wheels. While it is a little more time consuming having to change wheels or belts between stages, some of this time loss can be offset by processing multiple cabochons at each grit stage.
The Rock Rascal models "T" and model "J" have been in production for over four decades. Some years back Johnson Brothers Lapidary bought the rights to produce and sell the Rock Rascal machines. They sell the model "T" on their site as the "6 inch combination saw - grinder" for $530 with motor and $332 without motor. The one with the motor already mounted has the motor mounted on a steel plate underneath the machine and is mounted very close to the machine. Which causes more vibration to be transferred to the machine. So IMO it's better to get the model "T" basic which comes without the motor, and then acquire and mount a motor yourself on a piece of plywood or fiberboard with a longer belt to keep the motor farther away from the machine so less vibration is transferred to the machine. The Rock Rascal machines use a common 1/3hp 1725rpm general purpose continuous duty motor which is one of the most common fractional motors available.
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sooner
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2023
Posts: 23
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Post by sooner on Mar 18, 2023 23:27:18 GMT -5
Someday I hope that I understand 1/2 of what you guy's are saying. I don't know everything that I don't know. ignorance is bliss (and cheaper)
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 164
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Post by mgroothuis on Mar 19, 2023 13:22:46 GMT -5
I have no experience with the KN machine, or any combo machine actually. I have a Genie and a lot of different sized trim saws and slab saws. BUT from the looks of it and for what you want to do, I believe it would be a good choice for you. You may want to do a search for reviews and see if you find any, but the folks who have the KN cabbing machine like it a lot. KN is a solid company and I believe if you had any difficulties with it, they would make it right. If you are only wanting to saw small stones, the 6" saw should suffice. I talked to KN about the CTC6 machine and it's a brand new machine for them. It's built the same way as the Cabber 6, but two wheels/water valves on the left rather than 3. It still fits the Diamond and Nova wheels, should anyone want to use them on the left side.
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Post by Peruano on Mar 20, 2023 16:23:41 GMT -5
I just reviewed the Kingsley North specs for the ctc6 machine and I'd endorse everything but the price. Having the flexibility to use an expando lets you use a variety of grits at a relatively modest cost (Silicon Carbide belts up to 600 at least) and potential aluminum oxide to get to higher grits. More importantly you can shape and knock rough spots off with the 180 or a coarser grit wheel prior to going into the tumbler or even better you can saw off the rough spots. Something that is seldom mentioned but seems to be a desirable possibility is to take a properly shined tumbler and using the trim saw option turning it into 1 or more cabachons -- many tumbled rocks have an adequately symetrical and rounded dome and once flattened on the backside can be more useful for many projects. Please understand I'm advocating any small saw and any arbor that will allow you to use a diamond wheel or wheels as a major extention of your range of options with the rocks that you love and want to see more of. Piecing together a set up from the used market should be possible. An inexpensive used or new tile saw with a lapidary blade, and a used 6" arbor of some sort should be at least half the cost of the rig you are looking at. The rock rascal in a used situation would be perfect. The cabmate new is equally costly, but if you could find a used one it would be ideal. Other small combos would also meet you needs. Let the wide world of Craigslist and FB Marketplace be your reading choice for awhile. And enjoy the search.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 164
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Post by mgroothuis on Mar 20, 2023 17:10:26 GMT -5
I just reviewed the Kingsley North specs for the ctc6 machine and I'd endorse everything but the price. Having the flexibility to use an expando lets you use a variety of grits at a relatively modest cost (Silicon Carbide belts up to 600 at least) and potential aluminum oxide to get to higher grits. More importantly you can shape and knock rough spots off with the 180 or a coarser grit wheel prior to going into the tumbler or even better you can saw off the rough spots. Something that is seldom mentioned but seems to be a desirable possibility is to take a properly shined tumbler and using the trim saw option turning it into 1 or more cabachons -- many tumbled rocks have an adequately symetrical and rounded dome and once flattened on the backside can be more useful for many projects. Please understand I'm advocating any small saw and any arbor that will allow you to use a diamond wheel or wheels as a major extention of your range of options with the rocks that you love and want to see more of. Piecing together a set up from the used market should be possible. An inexpensive used or new tile saw with a lapidary blade, and a used 6" arbor of some sort should be at least half the cost of the rig you are looking at. The rock rascal in a used situation would be perfect. The cabmate new is equally costly, but if you could find a used one it would be ideal. Other small combos would also meet you needs. Let the wide world of Craigslist and FB Marketplace be your reading choice for awhile. And enjoy the search. I appreciate the reply. The cost is (cough-cough) a factor, for sure. I've been scouring FB marketplace for months. For whatever reason, SW Michigan is not a hotspot for lapidary equipment. If I do find something, they don't ship. It's a struggle. Lots of pros and cons.
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