Emerald
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 417
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Post by Emerald on Sept 11, 2004 10:25:28 GMT -5
I have several stones of very clear pale amethyst that might work for faceting. I'm going to another dig tomorrow that is supposed to have gem or faceting grade (?) amethyst. I thought I'd start saving the better pieces to learn faceting. (Have about 4 cups of amethyst so far to experiment with. Some are parts of huge crystals that must be cut down to separate the clearest part of the stone. Some of these huge crystals are almost the size of my fist...but the clearest and best part is about the size of a quarter....)
When your life calms down a bit, I would love your advice on which machine to start out with. (problem is, I want to trim and slab as well...so need to make my money stretch.)
A few weeks ago, you mentioned a lap/lap? I saw several combination tools with polishers, trim saw combined. Is that what you use to trim down larger stones or something else?
Soooo many tools....never enough money....what's a girl to do?
I do like the idea of combination units instead of buying one piece of equipment at a time.. What do you think?
Take care! Helen
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Post by docone31 on Sept 11, 2004 12:18:26 GMT -5
Helen, the whole process is much more simplistic than the producers of lapidary equipment show in their ads. A bench grinder will work very well for grinding and sanding, a tile saw from HOme Depot for 88$ will cut, and cut, and cut. Prescision faceting, yeah, you get what you pay for. A trim and slab saw produces a very fine kerf for maximizing the stone. Made up wet grinders, sanders, polishers are a trade off for convience. The stone still needs to be addressed and the person doing the job determines the outcome. I spent years not being able to afford lapidary equipment. I did not even know what I would need so I couldn't fudge it. I met some people who had been in the same place and who had broken through. I will be glad to share what I have learned. I found old books in bookstores that showed how to make certain machines. Loretone has a great combination machine. Built in slab saw, grinding wheels and polisher. It is a complete station that I now use exclusively. I wore out the corundum wheel and replaced it with a diamond wheel. I replaed the finer corundum wheel with a rubber drum. I still use the original diamond saw. It was a good investment. I got an used Raytech-Shaw faceter. I suppose there are better ones, but I like this one. It is universal and aside from concave facetine and my impatience, I really like the job it performs. With the combination unit, I use a 5 gallon Home Depot bucket for the water with an aquarium pump. I return the water back to the bucket and it works great. In our new house, I will install a permanent water line from the water source. Common hardware tools work great with lapidary. All you are doing is cutting, grinding, sanding, and polishing a stone. It doesn't have to be complicated. You can do it. Same with silver soldering and jewelery making. You can do it.
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Post by krazydiamond on Sept 11, 2004 14:52:02 GMT -5
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Post by docone31 on Sept 13, 2004 0:22:40 GMT -5
Great find, it gives me another source for tools. Cool.
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Emerald
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 417
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Post by Emerald on Sept 13, 2004 9:06:11 GMT -5
Ahhh thank you both...looking forward to go on the search for the tools! (hmmm I remember seeing that tile saw at home depot....almost bought one to redo our master bathroom tile. LOL...back then I didn't know I could use that to cut slabs...wish I bought it...instead we rented!)
I went to the JXR amethyst site yesterday (I'm exhausted today) and did find more than enough amethyst to work with... (maybe 3 or 4 fist fulls of assorted sizes and colors.)
Not all of it is solid purple, some have streaks of the amethyst color running through them. All in all...I feel I have enough here to experiment with. Matt and I may go again in a month or so. I'll post a "report" on our last collecting trip soon. Still cleaning up stuff....all I can say is it's all beautiful!
By the way, I have a sister that's been in the jewelry business for 25+ years. She's a buyer and has a good eye for quality gems. Even though she's not a licensed gemologist, I know she can teach me a bit more about collecting better gem material. I spoke with her the other day and she said she'd look at what I have and help me sort through them. I might be able to figure it out myself, but it would be nice to have someone in the business to tell me what to set aside till I have more skill.
Doc, I would also be grateful for your sage advice. In return, if you'd like some Georgia amethyst that would be of interest to you...I'll pass it your way. :-) I may not have much, but I'm more than willing to share.
I can't begin to tell you how excited I am at the prospect of learning to facet stones. I'm confident I can do this...I've worked with my hands for years, taught myself to paint and learned to fire clay/ceramics and even did mold-making. I imagine, as with any creative endeavor it will require massive amounts of patience, plenty of desire, a good "eye" and the ability to accept that I will frequently make mistakes.
Will stay in touch...back to cleaning and sorting! Helen
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Post by docone31 on Sept 13, 2004 10:09:32 GMT -5
Helen, like anything else, lapidary is simple. Slabbing is just cutting a stone. A tile saw accomplishes the same thing as a trim saw except for the thickness of the kerf and the other bells and whistles on the saw. Making a cabachon is shaping. In the case of lapidary it is shaping a stone. Instead of a tool designed for wood, it must be designed for glass or stone. If you go to glass tool sites, you might find some equipment there. Faceting is just putting a plane on a stone, with the potential of repeating it, and measuring it. The calculations are pretty involved but with the internet a lot of free designs are available as well as books full of grid points. Just like working ceramics. If it is broken down to small increments it goes together fast. With ceramics, a kiln could be made with a bellows, fire, and flat pieces of stone stacked to make a chamber. Now comes the gas or electric kiln and there is predictability. Atmosphere control, precise heat control. Glass powders can be purchased instead of crushed. Everything we do is possible for anyone who is willing to spend the time, stay focused and follow through. An half a million dollar laser diamond faceter is not the way to start, yet you could take a McDonalds cashier, sit him/her down, and a diamond could be cut by the end of the day. If you can do ceramics, I do not believe there is anything about lapidary you cannot do. With faceting all you need is a flat rotating plane, and adjustable platform or indes point, and a rotating protractor with variable index stations. Easier to purchase one but, they can be made also.
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Emerald
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 417
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Post by Emerald on Sept 13, 2004 10:26:36 GMT -5
Doc, I'm finding with any of the arts, it's your attention to detail that makes the difference between being so-so and good at what you do.
Question On some of the amethyst that I'd like to facet first... there are areas that are fractured that I assume must be removed. (I have alot of questionable pieces I bet I can get gem grade out of from this)
Should these areas be cut away with a tile/trim saw? Or slowly remove this fractured material through grinding?
(thinking outloud) My gut instinct is to study each piece I might like to facet and remove the excess fractures. So, when I actually go to the sanding process, I have a very clean...fracture free...stone to work with.
I'm going to try and photograph some of the pieces and show you a bit more of what I mean.
If it's a good idea to cut them first, then I'll probably pick up the trim saw within the next few weeks. At least I could then prep the material and have a quantity ready to go. (Plus, it would take a whole lot less room to store all these pieces!)
If grinding is the way to go to remove the fractures....then I may look at the Lantone comb unit first....which would mean wait a few months on.
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Post by docone31 on Sept 13, 2004 11:26:54 GMT -5
Real good question. If the stone is fractured, and I am using my faceter, and I feel there is stone that can be faceted, and it is not so much I am wasting a disc on a fractured mess, I preform. A grinding wheel produces shock/vibration. This can, in some cases add to the fractures. It can also produce chipping. If a saw is used, the stone can be cast in concrete, and the fracture cut away, leaving some fractured mass to be ground, sanded, or preformed away. Why cast in concrete? It makes the stone easier to hold and the concrete comes off easily. Either grinding or faceting, the concrete will be removed quickly. I believe in some cases the concrete helps stabilize the stone. A tile saw leaves a wide kerf. A trim saw leaves a finer kerf. Watch the blade wrap up. Too much pressure can distort the blade. Cracks and fractures, if they are really fine and cannot be ground off without messing up the size of the stone, can be "fixed" with Opticon, Canadian Balsam, Linseed oil. This process is called oiling. It helps make a marginal stone look great. It won't fool a competent jeweler for a minute, but if the person recieving the stone is aware, they usually do not care. Do not put an "oiled" stone in an ultrasonic cleaner. It will undo the oiling and might deeply fracture the existing cracks. Lot to learn but it sure is rewarding.
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Emerald
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 417
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Post by Emerald on Sept 13, 2004 11:46:21 GMT -5
When I did mold-making I poured alot of my molds with a material called "hydrocal" it's basically white cement. It's not coarse like concrete but has similar strength. I would think that material would be better to encase the stone in prior to cutting and removing the fractures. What do you think...have you used something like that before?
Either hydrocal or possibly potters plaster. Potters plaster is much harder than your typical plaster and doesn't break down when it cures...so for mold-making it holds it's shape pour after pour. Though, it's not as strong as the hydrocal.
Another thought is about the heat that is generated with curing concrete/plaster or hydrocal. Do you think there is additional risk of fracture because of the heat generated by the curing process? Interesting stuff...yep...I have a TON to learn.
*thinking out loud again* Sounds like a trim saw might be first item on my list....I'd probably go for the diamond blade. Just makes sense if I want to do this right. In this case...size doesn't matter. I don't plan on working with huge materials. Not yet anyway... *snickers*
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