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Post by hermatite on Oct 28, 2003 17:20:18 GMT -5
I was just told that picking up rocks from state or park beaches is illegal. Can it be so? I understand why you shouldn't dig up plants or feed wildlife and, being a good citizen, I don't. But ROCKS? Has the world gone mad? Seriously, does anyone know anything about this?
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Pdwight
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 619
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Post by Pdwight on Oct 28, 2003 22:06:19 GMT -5
Well it is hard to say, here in the south east people went over board picking up artifacts..people were digging up burial sites and really ravenging the areas. it was always legal to pick up rocks and points at "pool level" untill about 8 years ago or so when they completly banned it..there is always someone who will ruin it for other people.
Dwight P
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Djinjuice
starting to shine!
Member since March 2003
Posts: 47
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Post by Djinjuice on Oct 28, 2003 23:35:18 GMT -5
If alot of us nice rocktumbling people each took 5 lbs. of rock apiece, their wouldn't be much of a beach or park left. You can check with the Bureau of Land Management in your area and they will supply you with information about where you can pick up rocks and the amount of rock you are limited to, usually a couple hundred pounds per year, depending on what it is.
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Post by hermatite on Oct 29, 2003 10:03:38 GMT -5
a couple hundred pounds? yikes! all I want is enough to fill my pockets. But of course the point on what happens when people go crazy wrecking stuff is well taken. I guess I just never thought of rocks from the beach as limited in supply. Guess I'll just stick to the nice (and legal) Rock Shed.
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SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
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Post by SirRoxalot on Oct 30, 2003 11:04:19 GMT -5
Simply call up the park authorities, or ask at the gate what the rules are. I don't see anybody handcuffing you for filling your pockets at the vast majority of beaches and parks, but there are areas where they are very strict; eg. the petrified forest in AZ, anywhere with vertebrate fossils, the famous Burgess Shale site in BC, etc. We're talking federal offense at these places. Some places will allow you to pick up loose stuff but not dig or hammer. Fairly idiotic rules as far as I'm concerned. Just picked up two big winter jacket pocketfulls of nice bright white quartz pebbles from a park on the north shore of Lake Superior. Beach stones rule, the rough grind is already done for you.
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Post by docone31 on Oct 30, 2003 23:21:30 GMT -5
I kinda understand the environmental impacts of depleting a special place for future generations. The petrified forest is an example, except, around the corner, and especially in southeast Oregon is a plethora of opalised wood, and petrified wood. I have come to believe it is social control, mixed with economics. On the other hand, I have lived where it was needed and not applied and all the joy was lost. Mostly to trampling, pilferage, and trash. There is a park, where it is a felony to pick up items, where a few chosen have the pick of the litter. I get my materials from mines, collectors I meet, and rock shops preferably way out of the way. I do feel an hesitancy to pick something special from a natural place. However I have returned and found the crystal, rock formation, stone, gone, defaced, chipped, and a lot to times just left lying. I could have chipped it out without damage, but someone smashed it out with something with other than surgical precision. This is a very good topic and I am certain folks will have some definate opinions. I believe nature should be preserved, with a balance. Even though my son doesn't care one whit about what I value, someone else's might. My profit margin is very slim as I very selectively cut and use every piece. That is me. I am very near to a lapidariast who uses a framing hammer to chisel stones for polishing an setting. He does well. He is the most mean, selfish person I have met in this field. He has taken people off my little stand and sold his stuff at a loss just to make the sale. I wonder what he would do if left alone in the petrified forest.
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WilliamC
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2003
Posts: 416
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Post by WilliamC on Nov 2, 2003 16:01:33 GMT -5
Greetings All,
The legal question of who owns rocks is pretty much at the heart of property rights, since "land" and "rocks" are largely synonomous. From a libertarian perspective (the only perspective that makes any sense when talking about indivuals interacting as groups, which is pretty much all human interaction) the rocks belong to whoever owns the property. Problem is, no one really owns public property, so the rules about who can take them are confused. Just recently I myself took advantage of this confusion (i.e. rationalized my actions) and went out and "found" about 100 fairly large "road rocks" (granite and dolomite rocks and boulders used in civil engineering projects) a'way out in the county but close enough to the road where I could tote them to my car and put them in my trunk. Oh nothing to do with tumbling mind you, I just have a sinkhole going on next to a sewer main on the back of my property, and the city is never going to solve the problem, so I took it upon myself to. After hauling 100 rocks (some as large as 200 lbs, none smaller than 50) I took care of the sinkhole, at least for the next 20 years or so, and now I can go ahead and buy those railroad crossties I've been meaning to get and build me a retaining wall between my property and the city easment. Any more ground sinkage will simply pull down the rocks behind my wall.
Getting back to the point, I appropriated those rocks without anyone elses but my own sayso, and maybe on some level it's wrong for me to go taking rocks out of a ditch, since if 100 people did it it would make a difference, but I don't see even one other person doing it, so it doesn't make a difference, except to the back of my property, and the fact I didn't spend ~$1,000 on a truckload of rocks to take care of a sinkhole on the city easment that's gradually eroding my backyard away.
Instead I'll spend $3,000 on two tons of lapidary rocks ;D
WilliamC
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Post by docone31 on Nov 2, 2003 21:37:07 GMT -5
William, well said. Who owns the rocks. As a mostly Native American, the Grandfather owns the rocks. We have them to use. I cringe when I see an adult casually cast aside an apparently useless piece, either scrap paper, a stone, a can. My wife is from LA. She thinks nothing of driving across the street to visit a friend. Literaly. She thinks I am crazy when I walk a mile to, and from a destination. She will discard a piece of turquoise from one of my cuts. I will retrieve it and add it to more pieces. I even save my slurry from the tumbles. When mixed with two hour epoxy it makes a good binder for making a base to fagile stones. There is a point however when Things get out of hand. If we preserve everything intact, we are observers. If we strip mine, we are vandals. Balance must come into play. The end never justifies the means. I have been in the arctic where a mere footstep terminates a plant species. Does that mean I do not move? In a federal wilderness, or park, the case starts with The People VS. Am I not one of the people? I avoid parks and other tourist traps. When I purchase rough I try to be selective on its origin. I also do not cut precious pieces unless I can finish it with the best quality. My head spins thinking about this topic. I hold it dear. I try to walk on rice paper without a track. No matter how well I do it, there is always some track. I once did kata Geiche sai dai on rice paper. It did not tear, but it came close. Great topic, good for the soul.
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Post by hermatite on Nov 3, 2003 11:50:06 GMT -5
I don't want anyone to think I'm traversing the ditches of NH digging up endangered wild orchids or chipping at rock formations. It was rocky beach...all rocks...for miles...very rocky. I picked up maybe seven stones...I don't even know what they were. Pretty round stones that caught my eye among the millions there. I don't have respect for the people out there desecrating sites, and the thought that I was unwittingly one of them is more than just food for thought, it's disturbing. I guess I just didn't think of those beach rocks in the same light as a flower or animal. Now I really have something to think about.
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Pdwight
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 619
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Post by Pdwight on Nov 3, 2003 11:54:54 GMT -5
You did nothing wrong, lots of people I know have a few rocks on their mantles and they say"I saw this neat rock...it remionds me of my trip and what was hapening to me at that point in my life" IF you were hauling off truckloads of rock it would be different. This of it this way........you preserved a little part of that day for the future.
Dwigth P
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Post by docone31 on Nov 3, 2003 13:18:50 GMT -5
I agree. There is nothing with picking up a few stones. In my opinion, there is something wrong in taking the stones, and deliberately preventing someone else the privilege and just trashing. I doubt anyone on this forum and few I know personally would consider such things. We are too tuned into a beauty few consider untill we produce it. I have seen some folks just trash things for the sake of trashing it. Those few make a mess for the rest.
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