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Post by captbob on Feb 10, 2008 15:24:40 GMT -5
Well, this is a thread I don't want to be posting. Pretty big problem with my saw. Hey, I had it up and running 5 days before I broke it, so it was due... I asked here about how tight the rocks need to be in the vise before cutting and was told super duper tight. So I may have caused this by trying to make them as tight as I could, or it may just be that's it's an old saw and things break. It's not dead yet, but I'm not cutting anymore until I get it fixed. The problem is the vise is cracking. Pictures follow and then a few questions (of course!) closer in my worry is the piece between the cracks could break loose from the other side Okay... aside from the fact that this sucks (I've got tumblers to feed!) I see 2 options and I'd appreciate suggestions and/or help with both. 1st - I'm going to take this apart and see about getting it welded tomorrow. I'm not a welder, so what should I tell the guy? Any suggestions for the BEST way to fix this? 2nd - I've heard that there are still Highland Park parts to be found out there. Whoever bought HP still has parts available? Anyone know how to run these folks down and who to talk to? Other possibility - anyone have a spare vise for a HP 24 to sell? (fingers crossed) Remember, there are starving tumblers involved in this whole sad affair Please help save the tumblers before it's too late! added: This is part # 10619-5 slide-vise - if that helps anyone.
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 10, 2008 15:35:41 GMT -5
Looks like cast, hard stuff to weld. It can be done, but it takes someone who knows what they are doing. I would check with John at JSGems, he was saying he saw some parts at someplace he went to.
Tony
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 10, 2008 15:37:47 GMT -5
Upon looking at it farther, it just seems like you should be able to jump it up one notch and never even touch the back of that clamp section where it is cracked. Maybe that is why it is cracked, I don't think that back part should be touching.
Tony
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Post by captbob on Feb 10, 2008 16:03:25 GMT -5
Upon looking at it farther, it just seems like you should be able to jump it up one notch and never even touch the back of that clamp section where it is cracked. Maybe that is why it is cracked, I don't think that back part should be touching. Tony This is one of those times when I'm glad that I didn't breed. I'd hate to have passed on the Idiot Gene to another generation! Well, it's my first saw and there was bound to be a learning curve. I'm probably lucky I still have all my limbs attached. I would still like to get it fixed or get a new part to make it right, but I think Code Red can be cancelled. Now, how do you all tighten the vise to it's utmost? I'm using the box end of a wrench which is leaving marks on the vise handle. There were not marks there before, so the previous owners must have had a different method. THANK YOU Tony!
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Feb 10, 2008 16:04:45 GMT -5
I think Tony is right Bob, the force is supposed to be transfered from the notches in the bottom, through the foot thing and the screw into the clamp body, where its broken is just a web across the slot and "if used properly" shouldn't be subjected to any stress at all.
Pretty much every time I clamp a rock I start out by backing the screw all the way out so the foot is right up against the clamp body, then set the foot in the closest notch you possibly can for the rock in process, a few turns of the screw and you are off to the races.
You should never have the screw extending more than one "notch distance" from the foot, if you do, back it out and move up to the next notch.
Check it out, I really don't think you have a terribly significant problem there, although if you try running it the way it is shown- you are asking for trouble as tightening the screw isn't even making the rock tighter, its just stressing out that part of the clamp.
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Feb 10, 2008 16:54:13 GMT -5
Diamond Pacific has the Highland Park replacement parts. I went out and look at my HP 18" and I think I see what the problem is. The clamp should not even be touching the cast iron. You are missing the steel pin that goes through the leg of the screw clamp and into the vise. The vise has a slot on either side of the pin so when you take the vise apart the pin just drops out the bottom. As you can see from the pictures that part is completely broken off by a previous owner and until now I hadn't even noticed. Rick
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 10, 2008 17:00:44 GMT -5
Does your clamp have wood inside the jaws? The wood takes up alot of the pressure and helps hold the rock sturdily in place. I don't think you should be so tight you are leaving marks on the vise handle, but tight enough so the rock cannot move. I usually pull on the rock and tap it with a wrench or small hammer to see if it moves even slightly, you can feel or see if it moves. My clamp system is different than yours, but they all have the same objective.
Good luck with it.................Tony
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Post by captbob on Feb 10, 2008 17:15:29 GMT -5
Thank you all for the replies!
Rick, the pin is there, I was simply tightening the vise wrong! As Tony wrote, the vise dog shouldn't even be touching that back part. It's good to know that you run one without that part of the vise even there, I don't feel that I'm going to hurt the saw further by running it now. I will still try to find a replacement part, it's like driving around with a dent in your car. No good!
Tony, there is wood and I am learning quickly. I emailed the previous owner of this saw and he admonished me for using a wrench to tighten the vise. Okay, I won't be doing THAT again! It tightens much easier now that I have the dog in the right place.
Live and learn... now, I have a date with some rocks!
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Post by docone31 on Feb 10, 2008 18:14:52 GMT -5
One of the reasons us dummies use stucco, or mortar, or plaster of paris, is to distribute any load over a larger area. I will admit, misuse of a machine is an issue, especially with me. I trashed a very good rolling mill by misloading it. On those back blow outs, they can be welded. Preferably, a notch machined in front of the web where a piece of steel can be inserted. Mr. Murphy is closely related to me. I have had to learn some things people take for granted. That must have come as a real Oh, oh. I know the feeling well. Things that seemed to be obvious, just did not work that way. I hope it is a real simple fix for you. Good luck with it. There is a solution.
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Feb 10, 2008 19:30:34 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad you didn't have to go out and buy a pin for it. Also, while we are on the subject of proper clamping keep a selection of 2x4 blocks and wedges around. Use them to keep the vise even and wedge a rock in place if it wants to wobble.
Glad you figured it out!
Rick
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Post by johnjsgems on Feb 10, 2008 21:21:35 GMT -5
Captbob, what they said. That piece broke completely out of mine for the same reason. I've used it for years since it broke. Like someone said back the screw out and engage in the closest notch you can. It never touches that part of the vise clamped that way. And, if you ever need parts try Diamond Pacific. They were the inheritors of Highland park after several changes of ownership.
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Post by Woodyrock on Feb 11, 2008 2:35:25 GMT -5
Captbob: To make you feel better, you know, peace of mind, take the vise to a good welder. Welding of cast iron is NOT a difficult process today with inert gas welding technology. Having it welded will be much less expensive than getting a new one for Diamond Pacific, or at least, it should. Good welders today, can weld thin section castings like old wood planes with out warpage, and doing sections like the HP vise are a no sweat weld. Just make sure the weld shop can do cast welds. If you do take to be welded, degrease it first...really will not effect the weld, but it might the welder. The good thing here is you have broken about the only thing that actually breaks on a HP saw.
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Post by captbob on Feb 11, 2008 12:25:49 GMT -5
The good thing here is you have broken about the only thing that actually breaks on a HP saw. You obviously don't know me very well! While I'm here, I was emailing the previous owner of the saw about where to get parts and we touched on some other questions I had, my being a saw newbie and all. About the idler pulley... he told me to grease it every 2 to 3 hours of run time to protect the brass sleave in the pulley from wear. I was wondering how tight (or loose) do you all keep the idler arm? I'm talking about the bolt that holds the idler arm, located on the front leg on the picture below. I've got it tightened down pretty good, and would have to loosen it every time to grease that pulley. Is this proper or should that bolt be looser so the arm moves freely? Seems that wouldn't keep the belt tight then. Anything else I should grease regularly? Thanks for all the replies from those of you that have been there, done that!
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Post by stoner on Feb 11, 2008 12:33:28 GMT -5
I've bought and used welding rods made for cast items just using a propane torch with MAPP gas. I repaired the locking collar on my Bosch router and it's held up for over 10 years now. Getting the vise degreased will be the issue in your case.
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Feb 11, 2008 15:26:30 GMT -5
Capt. Bob,
You want to keep the bolt on the pivot of the arm that holds the idler pulley tight enough so you can move the arm up and down with your hand without any veins popping out in your neck. Keep the belt tight enough so it doesn't vibrate wildly while the saw is running but not too tight as to damage the bearings.
I've seen saws where they keep the pivot bolt loose and attach a small bucket (about the size of a coffee can) full of rocks hanging near the idler bearing.
Rick
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WarrenA
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2003
Posts: 1,530
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Post by WarrenA on Feb 14, 2008 0:44:33 GMT -5
take the broken piece and have it welded it shouldn't cost much just clean all the oil off of it before you take it in
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Post by captbob on Feb 14, 2008 23:07:35 GMT -5
I bought a new one. I'll have the broken one fixed for a spare or to sell after I replace it.
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