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Post by captbob on Mar 3, 2008 14:04:43 GMT -5
NOT that it wasn't bad enough, and getting worse by the day, but this may be the final straw. eBay had been hiding bidder IDs on auctions when the amount went over $200. So, I quit bidding on auctions over $200... Bidding against the seller's shill ID isn't my idea of a fair playing field. NOW, eBay will hide bidder IDs on ALL auctions starting "sometime later this week" www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200803.shtml#2008-03-03092747The last paragraph is where this wonderful news is. This past year with eBay has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion
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Post by Titania on Mar 3, 2008 14:12:30 GMT -5
Wow, that's bad news. You know ebay could have just gotten rid of Second Chance Offers altogether. That would have been preferable to this...yuck.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Mar 3, 2008 22:18:52 GMT -5
I thought the seller could make it so bidder ID's were private. I bid on a few things for around $50 that the ID's were private. I think in the last year or so I must have gotten over a dozen fake second chance offers, even before the bidding was done. It could be a good thing to keep ID's private. Why does that bother you so much? Oh well I guess there will be one less bidder bidding against me then if it's your last straw....
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Mar 3, 2008 22:43:18 GMT -5
It's bad because if all the ID's are hidden, you can't tell if one of the 'bidders' you are bidding against is actually the seller under another ID, or one of the seller's friends or relatives. Bidding to push up the price, not to try to win. If you can see who you're bidding against, you can usually tell pretty easily whether they are a legit bidder or not. When you can't see who you're bidding against, there is no way to know - and eBay has historically not been too sharp about picking up on shilling activity. It's illegal as well as unethical, but eBay seems to turn a rather blind eye to it even when the bidding activity is clearly showing it. At least if you could see it for yourself, even if eBay did nothing you still knew who to avoid. Now, you just won't know.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Mar 3, 2008 22:50:54 GMT -5
Like that hasn't been going on? My BIL does that kind of crap when he has something on there that's not bringing a fair price. he has friends bidding on his stuff. I understand it's gonna open the door for more of that to go on but it already happens. You can't tell by a persons profile where they are at. I'd bet all of us have been bid against by that style before and we just didn't know it. If the bidding gets to high for you then you need to just quit bidding.
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Post by cpdad on Mar 3, 2008 23:02:12 GMT -5
just put in the highest amount you are willing to pay.....thats the end of that. ;D...kev.
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Mar 3, 2008 23:32:39 GMT -5
Yes, I said upfront that I knew it was already going on (been on eBay a long, long time - even from back when you could leave feedback for anyone else, whether you'd ever bought/sold from/to them or not). But it's still pretty easy to tell, when you can see the bidders. Has nothing to do with knowing where they are, it's looking at their bid history and feedback history.
From a bidder's history, you can see that a Bidder X usually bids on Harley parts, and DVD's. A look through his feedback shows lots of buys for Harley parts, and DVD's. Maybe here and there a random piece of jewelry for his wife, a pack of Pokemon cards for the kids. So far, nothing suspicious about that at all.
You're bidding on an antique coin from Seller Y. Bidder X shows up and bids against you. They outbid you, and then retract their bid and rebid just under your max. You are winning the auction - Bidder X is *not* trying to win it, so you don't have to bid any more.
A closer look through Bidder X's bid history shows that while he usually buys Harley parts and DVD's, he has a strange tendency to also bid on coins from Seller Y. Only from Seller Y, not from any other seller. And he rarely (if ever) wins them. This is not the only way to spot a shilling seller, but it's one of them - and it's one that hiding bidder identities will mask completely.
If a seller wants to guarantee a certain price for their item, that's what reserves are for. If the bidding doesn't meet the seller's reserve price, they don't have to sell it to the highest bidder. I don't mind being outbid, and I don't mind being bid up to my max. But I do mind having my bid artificially inflated for no other reason than just to squeeze a little more cash out of me, and I know how to spot (and avoid) sellers who make a habit of doing so. At least until this change goes into effect...
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Rockygibraltar
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,404
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Post by Rockygibraltar on Mar 3, 2008 23:32:59 GMT -5
I'm with Kevin. Set your price limit and take the time to look at the seller before you start bidding. A person doesn't need to be as tight as I am but I loose about 90% of the auctions, unless I REALY gotta have it. Then I put up the money. With this in mind the shill bidding generaly won't affect you.
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Mar 3, 2008 23:50:08 GMT -5
I think maybe shill bidding is being confused with sniping somehow? You aren't normally going to lose an auction to a shiller, that isn't the point of shilling. Shilling is when a seller, either themselves under another ID (or a friend or relative of same) bids just to raise the price on the auction - they aren't bidding to try to outbid you at all, in fact are hoping they won't outbid you. Bidding your max on an auction that is being shilled for the seller just means they're going to get the very most you were willing to pay...they don't want you to lose the auction, they just want you to pay more.
If the person bidding (shilling) for the seller wins, then the seller has to pay the final value fee on an item they did not actually sell to anyone - meaning, it's going to cost them money instead of making them money. Or they can make a second chance offer to the 'losing' bidder, but doing that too much is also a pretty good indicator of a shilling seller. They can only use the excuse that the 'winning' bidder didn't pay so many times before it makes you start to wonder why their winning bidders are always such deadbeats (and why, if they win but consistently don't pay, the seller keeps allowing them to bid on their auctions).
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Post by captbob on Mar 4, 2008 0:26:03 GMT -5
With around 1000 buying transactions on eBay, I have never bid on an auction where the bidder IDs were kept private. That's just asking for trouble not being able to see who you are bidding against.
It is impossible to shill my specific bid as I don't bid until there is one second (or less) left in the auction. But, once this ebay improvement goes into effect, I won't be able to check for any shilling activity that has taken place BEFORE I care to bid.
Shilling is illegal and also against eBay policy. I'd also say it is against the rules of common decency and good business practices. Just because so&so does it or because it happens all the time sure as hell doesn't make it right.
I can't spot a shill bid 100% of the time, but I'm pretty damn good at it, allowing myself some protection when bidding. What eBay is about to do will remove one of the few tools I have to protect myself when bidding and I don't appreciate it.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Mar 4, 2008 1:03:30 GMT -5
Even now it's almost impossible to tell if shilling is going on. Sure you can check a guys feedback but that doesn't always prove true. I bid and won a racing wheel for my xbox 360 where every bidder's ID was private, I won the thing, brand new for $32.. The wheel sells for $120 at BestBuy Anyway I don't give a fat rats ass if bidders are kept private. I bid what I want to bid and if I feel it's to much then I don't bid. If you have to worry that you can't see who's bidding or have to worry about getting shilled then maybe you shouldn't be on Ebay then.
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Post by sandsman1 on Mar 4, 2008 3:04:55 GMT -5
i quit buyin from ebay reguler a wile ago so it wont bother me too much but maybe if enough people stoped biding on items when it changes maybe they will get the message -- i would realy be watchin hard if i was still buying like i used too, too many changes are being made lately on both sides buying and selling there nervous for a reason -- sooner or later it will come out whats goin on, i only need one thing from them a new rv toilet and its a buyit now so i know what im payin and saving and ill be done buying for the year so ill just sit back and watch haha
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rollingstone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2009
Posts: 236
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Post by rollingstone on Mar 4, 2008 3:56:25 GMT -5
Check the seller's feedback, this should indicate whether people have been complaining about shill bids or not.
Don't bid more than you are willing to pay. This will prevent you from being suckered to overpay for an item.
Follow those two rules and you won't ever pay more than you are willing to pay for an item. You might or might not get shilled to pay the maximum you bid, but you won't overpay. And don't forget that you can turn down second-chance offers (I always turn them down, as a matter of prinicple).
And if you are still uncomfortable with that ebay format, stop bidding on auctions, and focus only on Buy-it-now items.
My gripe with ebay is how so many sellers list shipping charges at such vastly greater prices than it will actually cost them to ship the item. That factor alone has greatly curtailed my ebaying as of late. -Don
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Post by texaswoodie on Mar 5, 2008 9:08:00 GMT -5
Hmmmmm, perhaps if the guy hadn't shilled you, you could have gotten it for $15.
Curt
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Mar 5, 2008 10:14:13 GMT -5
I didn't get shilled....
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Post by captbob on Mar 6, 2008 1:36:48 GMT -5
Well, it's happened, SMI is in effect on all auctions now. All bidders names are hidden. You may now bid at your own risk...
eBay has done A LOT of stupid things in the past, but this change takes the cake. It's truly a sad day for anyone that has been on eBay long enough to remember how it used to be.
I just deleted 87 items from my watch list.
I'll not say I'll never bid again, (BINs are still safe!) but what LITTLE regard that I had left for that company is now gone.
eBay has just lost a damn good buyer (well over 50k spent there) a damn good seller (over 20k) and the BEST freakin' sniper on the site!
it was fun...
*sigh*
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Post by stonesthatrock on Mar 6, 2008 2:50:50 GMT -5
i hate ebay and have for over a yr. sooooooooo i don't buy, sell or even go there it saves me alot of frustration.
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Post by LCARS on Mar 8, 2008 13:15:21 GMT -5
I already hate Ebay enough that I closed my account and haven't been on it since 2001. This doesnt make me want to sign up again any time soon either.
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wm7734
spending too much on rocks
wheres my rockhammer ?
Member since January 2007
Posts: 252
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Post by wm7734 on Mar 9, 2008 17:32:40 GMT -5
question,if the user ids are going to be kept private,does that mean that buyers who have been "blocked" by sellers for what ever resons will now be able to bid on the sellers items ?
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turquoiselover
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2008
Posts: 115
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Post by turquoiselover on Mar 9, 2008 23:20:30 GMT -5
I agree with Don (Rollingstone) - it really ticks me off when sellers pad the shipping so obviously that it's clear that they are trying to make up for the low price they're listing their item for. It's come down to what I look at first when considering buying. I found a Thumler's 3 lb tumbler (I bought both of mine used on Ebay) that had a $30 shipping charge! What a joke. I only bid on items that at least come close to the actual shipping costs. I also agree with the author of this thread - I like to see who I'm bidding against, especially when it's something with a high number of bidders.
Turq
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