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Post by Tony W on Sept 29, 2008 0:45:32 GMT -5
Lori and Dennis, and others, have wanted to see what I see when I work opals so I took some pics of the process.... this one came out badly, however. Still you are seeing it as I saw it Here is a chunk of hard mud over some rock.. nothing much showing. I ground a flat in the back and glued a roofing nail to the mud. After some grinding at 220 it has a mud slurry on top... and... to me, the best part is next... getting to look as I wash the mud off to see what there is to see. Sometimes it's like that first look into King Tut's tomb. And.... there is some color showing on the roughed out bezel and over on the top. And unhappily, it looks like a crack. So after some judicious grinding at 220 then 600 I worked down to try to bring up more color. And there is more color... and the bane of the opal worker... there are pits and big cracks. Won't be able to word around those cracks... that baby is coming apart. And as I grind it with 600 and 1200 it does come apart... and the big chunk, between quarter and half dollar size, still has 3 big cracks through it. I hate it because you can see the pin fire and I love that glittery fire. I'll end up with dime size or smaller pieces, maybe 4, if I'm lucky. But they will likely split at the good parts.... opal always seems to do that I shaped the bigger piece a bit more at 1200 to see if I could stabilize it with glue , but it is all the way through with cracks so I don't have much hope. I'm going to put it aside to try with opticon when I get my vacuum chamber set up. Well, it's sad but that is the way it goes sometimes, especially with the lower grade rough..... but I'll keep working it to see what I get. And I'll photograph another rock through the process and hope for better results. So... that all of the latest episode of "Like You were there" Tony
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Post by sitnwrap on Sept 29, 2008 1:15:47 GMT -5
Big, Big thank you Tony. When you stated "it's like that first look in King Tut's tomb" I was thinking "no, way better" Then when you said "there are pits and big cracks" I was hollerin (in my mind) "Opticon it! opticon it!" lol Got a little caught up in the process of this and though it fell apart, I really enjoyed watching you work that BO. Lori
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MidNight~Rocksi3
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2008
Posts: 1,716
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Post by MidNight~Rocksi3 on Sept 29, 2008 3:07:19 GMT -5
Well gotta be honest with ya.. I'm one of them dopperless cabbers ... never even thought of trying it that way until now... Cuz I always thought it being there's pressure on such a small area would be what causes the cracks..or was always afraid it won't hold and I'll send it through my wall at warp 10... especially on a soft rock... But guess it's just the rock? So thinking I might try the Nail thing.. Oh and . what is Opticon? and will it work on any rock with a crack in it? and where can I get some? Or will I end up in the ER by some freakish accident with it? Anyways.. I'm thinking you might have just saved a few little rock lives by your thread .... Since I don't get to look over someone's shoulder and watch how they work their magic... And when I was lucky enough to be able to watch someone .. I had no idea what I was suppose to be watching for... which makes me one of them clueless wonders behind the wheel, that's just happy to still have all my digits when I'm done mutalating a rock.... So.. gotta take a Hallmark Moment to tell you that not only does this Rock.!! But have to thank you for letting me tag along as well ... and If anything.. I just now realized.... that slurry is our friend.. and not the Monster... ;D
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nansaidh
spending too much on rocks
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Post by nansaidh on Sept 29, 2008 19:15:57 GMT -5
Wow - that is really incredible, Tony! How on earth did you determine there was opal beneath the mud? What is your vacuum set up like? I made one for stabilizing soft & friable wood (for turning pens) that I call my "Pickle Pump" because it's a lidded 5 gallon (glass) pickle jar with a peanut butter jar inside (holds the stabilizing liquid and the wood). A gauge & valve on top of the lid allow me to get the vacuum up to a certain point and turn off the pump to let the wood sit in the vacuum overnight. I just finished some really soft 45,000 year old New Zealand Kauri wood that I'll probably turn sometime this week. Anyway - loved your account and it would be great to see more, if you have the patience. Thanks! Nancy
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Post by Tony W on Sept 29, 2008 22:31:58 GMT -5
Hey, Lori! Glad my tale got you excited Sorry it was such a sad one. I'll keep track of those small pieces and if I get a good result I'll post it. I will do another one as I know now what a thrill it is for others as well as me. I've gotten several that were great lately but didn't photograph the process. So.... give me another chance to get it right Hey,Roxy! I've seen your work and your no clueless wonder But... the reason your digits are mutilated is no dop... believe me I had to go to dopping as my fingernails were ground down to paper thin throbbing pains, and I had to! I use roofing nails as they have a spiral around the shank that helps grip... and I drill a hole in a dowel, wrap blue tape around the nail and insert. That holds the nail without turning in the dowel and my dear fingers are way out of the way. I use a pretty good dollop of super glue gel and let it dry overnight. If I have ground out a good flat for the nail head they rarely let go, and even then it just falls off and doesn't go flying. And I never have felt the nail caused any cracking (I usually remove the rock by pushing up from the back and breaking the nail hold, and the rocks don't break)... and, anyway, I always end up with my fingers down on the stone .. but only on the back.. for helping apply pressure on points of the rock while grinding. Opticon is some kind of devil stuff that smells like something Zombies would huff. I mean awful stuff. I got mine at Kingsley North. It is an acrylic I think. You put some in a jar covering your stone and then put it under a light for some hours to heat it. It fills the voids and cracks. Then you coat it with hardener. I haven't had great luck with it but others have. Bobby1 did a nice tute on it a while back. He had great success hiding a crack in a cab. I'm going to give it a try again with my new soon to be vacuum chamber so I'll let you know how it works for me that way. Go to dopping, gal, and you'll be able to grind more rock and feel the pain a lot less By the way, that was a great garnet you sent Randy. You definitely deserve a nice squirrel massage Hey, Nancy! Lol, well since the rock came in a box of opal rough I hoped it might hide some wonders... but you never know.. sometimes it is just a mud chunk It is fascinating your stabilizing ancient wood to turn. I am always amazed at what creative people come up with to do. Good on you. I'm using a pice of pvc pipe with a sheet of acrylic sitting over it with a silicone seal I just tapped the side and set in the fitting the other day, so now I just have to connect the pump. I put it together to do wax injection into molds, and getting the air out of plaster casts, but I think it will do great for treating stones, and then, when I'm ready, casting silver. I haven't put a guage on it as I figured to just pull the air out until the plaster quit bubbling when doing lost wax molds, or just pull some air for a while when I pour hot wax in the silicone mould .. and the same for the silver when I pour it into the plaster mold. I just wanted to get the wax/metal/ whatever into the nooks and crannies and figured pulling a vacuum would do it. Hmmm ... maybe I need a guage. Post some of your pens, please. They sound great! Tony
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Post by catmandewe on Sept 29, 2008 23:12:48 GMT -5
Great Thread, really interesting. After beating my nails up the first week I got my cabbing machine set up, I had to go to the nail dop stick too. Harley told me a really slick way to get the nail off of the cab when you are finished. Just heat the nail up, about an inch above the cab, (I use a torch, works really fast!) don't heat the cab, just the nail. Hold the nail with a pair of pliers, when the glue heats up, the cab just falls off, (make sure the cab is over something cushioned, I use a folded towel)
Thanks for showing us this Tony....................Tony
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adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
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Post by adrian65 on Sept 30, 2008 11:06:45 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this thread, Tony. I found very difficult to cab Boulder Opal. Knowing hen to stop the grinding, avoiding the soft areas, not mentionning the mess! Your cab has a beautiful shape and it also seems you were able to build an even bezel on its edge.
Adrian
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Post by Tweetiepy on Sept 30, 2008 11:49:47 GMT -5
Cool Tony! I have some mud-like pieces of opal too and was wondering how to get anything out of it as well - I guess a dremel might work too huh? I never thought to look under the surface *hits head* doh!
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nansaidh
spending too much on rocks
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Member since August 2008
Posts: 311
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Post by nansaidh on Sept 30, 2008 12:28:26 GMT -5
Tony - your vacuum setup sounds a little like the one my S.O. uses to do veneering for making furniture, etc(a hobby). That picture linked there is a black walnut burl & rosewood table he made a few years ago, one of my favorite things he's made. My pens.... you asked for it, Tony! This is the Ancient Kauri I stabilized - it would never had made it through the turning if I hadn't. It is from ancient, huge trees (that grow nowhere else on earth) that fell thousands of years ago in a particular northern New Zealand peat bog, were completely covered with peat (thus sealing out the air) and left buried for, well, 45,000 years per radio carbon dating. They are usually discovered when an area is dug out for construction. Then lucky folks like me who (at the time) had a friend in NZ with a connection, bought a small hoard of cut wood from one of the excavated trees (you also can sometimes find it on eBay - lol). ;D Photos can't capture the depth - almost a chatoyance - of ancient Kauri - it's really an amazing wood. And a few more of different woods........ and a link to more pics if you want more (choose "sold gallery" on the left).... www.pens.nansaidh.usThanks fer lookin...... Nancy
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Wolfden
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2007
Posts: 1,368
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Post by Wolfden on Sept 30, 2008 12:55:01 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the tut Tony , I like everyone else , really enjoyed "seeing" you in action lol Is there a chance we could see your vacum chamber ?
Nancy !! Those are absolutely beautiful pens .... I bet they are really pricey huh? well worth the price I'm sure. Do you sell these on your site ? The pen set is just amazing !!! I did a little looking into making pens before I started with the rock hobby. I love working with wood , maybe some time down the line I will look into it again. Have you looked into getting any of the old logs they are getting out of the great lakes ? I saw a show about them. they look like something that would be great for pen making.
Thanks again to you both Dennis
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nansaidh
spending too much on rocks
Jewelry artist, graphic designer, dog lover, car nut (etc.)
Member since August 2008
Posts: 311
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Post by nansaidh on Sept 30, 2008 13:09:01 GMT -5
Dennis - Thank you so much! Yes, I sell them (I have a batch of 11 or so prepped to turn later this week to "stock up" my 'shop') right on the same site, www.pens.nansaidh.us and they're not too expensive, I don't think. The Kauri is more so because of the unique nature and story of the wood, but including all styles they run from $20 to $40 (Kauri is $75). I love working with wood - the smells of some of the exotic species are incredible (olive smells heavenly). The amboyna burl the set was made from is one of the rarest burls in the world - and one of the most beautiful, IMHO. I read about the recovery of the wood from the Great Lakes somewhere, and need to see if I can find a source for that; it sounds very cool. "Special" woods are so much fun to work with - the history and what those trees have witnessed... amazing. I have a few pieces of "Heritage Oak" left with this story (from my information card included with each pen): "The particular tree in San Antonio, Texas that this 4 foot burl grew on was estimated to be approximately 300 years old when it came down in a fierce storm in 2002. It’s age would have it standing during the fall of the Alamo and Texas' independence, so this beautiful pen is actually a poignant piece of American history." Nancy
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MidNight~Rocksi3
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2008
Posts: 1,716
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Post by MidNight~Rocksi3 on Sept 30, 2008 15:46:55 GMT -5
Hey Tony .. Thanks for the heads up on the devil Glue for zombies? ;D. ( I so liked the way you described it! ) LOL.. even tho I don't think I'd be able to use it.. just because it sounds a little complicated.. and I don't even remember a thing about science or even going to science class . . and my luck It would attract the zombies and I'd end up on the floor or glued to one.... so gonna wait on that.. but do have a stone glued to my first nail ;D just waiting .. that's the hard part.. But Then maybe I'll be to make me some pro looking cabs like That bikers cab.. which btw.. I guess it's not a Garnet. but some kind of Morph of pyrite? I dunno forgot already.. But I just sent him a slab.. He did the magic.. but trust me.. My cabs.. are scary.. lol.. but thanks for blowing some sunshine my way.. I guess I could always go through the garage door if my head gets too big to fit through the front door today! lol Oh Yeah! those Pens are Stunning! Not only Pro Looking But Look Like they belong in a mueseum or something.. very classy WTG Nancy! ;D
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nansaidh
spending too much on rocks
Jewelry artist, graphic designer, dog lover, car nut (etc.)
Member since August 2008
Posts: 311
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Post by nansaidh on Sept 30, 2008 15:51:29 GMT -5
Wow, thank you, Roxy! ;D
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 30, 2008 16:07:54 GMT -5
nansaidh: Beautiful pens. I loved working with wood when I was younger. The last thing I made was a table tennis bat (ping pong paddle) out of a piece of burled walnut. I had to reduce the dimensions and thickness to get the weight to a playable size. Incredibly hard wood with very fast playing characteristics. I made it 35 years ago and still have it. I also made some hanging cabinets out of solid black walnut in HS woodshop about 45 years ago. They were for my parents. I have them now and some day I will use the wood for something interesting. That kind of wood is very expensive and difficult to find now.
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Post by Tony W on Sept 30, 2008 16:27:23 GMT -5
Man, oh, man! That is beautiful work, Nancy! Very impressive. And the patterns in the wood are so reminiscent of rock patterns. I just have to ask if you have though about grinding and polishing rock into rolls to use in the pens? I would think it could be done pretty handily. I just watched a How its Done on the Science channel the other night about making pens by gluing different woods together then cutting them in diagonals to make pen parts with patterns so I have some idea of what your process is. I think the thing I like the best is using ancient woods. It is the kind of palio/archeo/creative o stuff that appeals to me on several levels. Can't believe you let them go so cheap!! Thanks for letting us see! Hey, Roxy! Didn't want to scare you off. Look for Bobby's tut. It was on this cab board maybe a couple of months back. You just want to seal the stuff in a jar with your stone (holding your nose so you won't get zombiefied, and put it under a clip on light for a few hours to heat it up and let it move into the stone. Then you pull it out, holding your breath for several minutes while you wipe off the access and rub on the hardener. YOu can hold your breath for 2 or 3 minutes can't you It works, but I was trying to fill big pits and I think it is better for smaller problems... though I didn't try just filling up the hole with it and adding a drop of hardener. Still, don't used it without a buddy close by... don't want you glued to the walking undead! Hmmm... wait, now... I'm walking... and undead... so, ok, I don't want you stuck to the walking dead. Dennis... I'll get you a pic of the mystery chamber soon T
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Post by Jurrasic Jonje on Sept 30, 2008 16:32:55 GMT -5
Very cool tony and those pens are awesome. Get thread all around.
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Post by Tony W on Sept 30, 2008 16:38:47 GMT -5
Hey, Adrian and Tweet.... just go at it slow with 600 then 1200 and wash it off a lot. The color parts... in Koroit, anyway... are pretty hard to destroy if you are careful. The big thing is 'cut a little, look a lot". If you aren't making much progress go to 220.. but you can destroy it pretty quick at that grit... so I only use it to pull off the mud and as soon as I get pattern or color, I jump to finer grits. Don't let it scare you. The best thing is to take a piece you aren't crazy with and try to grind off the pattern and color... you can learn a lot trying to destroy a piece of rock. Tony
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Post by Tony W on Sept 30, 2008 16:41:43 GMT -5
Thanks, all, for your kind comments. I had no idea how much interest there would be. I'll try to be better about taking pics as I go. And I think that goes for all you cutters that post. Its seems process is interesting to lots of us!! Tony
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Post by stoner on Sept 30, 2008 18:33:29 GMT -5
Ah man, I was hoping to see a diamond in the rough! Do another one, one that you know you will find a gem inside! Vacuum chambers suck! hahahahaha!!!!!
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nansaidh
spending too much on rocks
Jewelry artist, graphic designer, dog lover, car nut (etc.)
Member since August 2008
Posts: 311
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Post by nansaidh on Sept 30, 2008 18:34:45 GMT -5
Ah man, I was hoping to see a diamond in the rough! Do another one, one that you know you will find a gem inside! Vacuum chambers suck! hahahahaha!!!!! Calm down, Ed.... step away from the pain killers.... it will be okay....
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