morticiamonroe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 147
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Post by morticiamonroe on May 22, 2009 15:46:56 GMT -5
I've recieved some beautiful stones from MJ and banjo and have got everything sorted into those that will be tumbled, and those that will be slabbed.
I've used my WF saw a dozen times or so, and I really am enjoying it, but I'm hoping you seasoned "slabbers" can advise me....
How do you decide exactly where to cut a stone? I'm aware that a good bit of this will be common sense, but am also wondering what it is you look for,,,if the stone has a grain to it, do you cut WITH or AGAINST it? And how thick of a cut do you make? What, other than size, makes you decide whether a rock is best tumbled or slabbed?
I've gotten some pretty pieces from the saw so far, but to be fair I have absolutely SLAUGHTERED a few good stones, although I have saved what appear to be the best of them for later days when I'm a lot better at this.
I'd appreciate any advise you can give as to your own personal selection method.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,463
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Post by Sabre52 on May 22, 2009 16:07:07 GMT -5
Howdy, I usually wet a stone real well and study the pattern for best cut direction then dry the stone out well and check for fractures. Others may disagree but I prefer to cut perpendicular to fractures rather than parallel them because a parallel cut with often really shatter the stone when it strikes the fracture at a shallow angle. Always always start the cut with the blade edge perpendicular to the stone and with the Workforce just let the blade eat through the stone with the lightest pressure you can manage. If it starts sparking real heavy, you are either running to dry or pressing so hard you're ripping the metal from the diamond. With or against the grain kind of depends on the pattern you want and the nature of the stone. If the stone cleaves easily like serpentine, I'd cut across the grain. With well silicified agates and jaspers it doesn't matter much so let pattern and fractures be the determining factor. For cabs, I prefer my slabs to be a bit over 3/16" but lots of folks like high domes and go 1/4" or thicker. Slabs for tumbling, I cut pretty thin, about 3/16 max. Whether you use a rock for tumbling or slabbing is strictly a personal choice. Usually I tumble pieces I pick up which are nice but too small to slab for cabs and usually I tumble the less expensive materials. On the other hand, some folks who only tumble, put some darned expensive stuff in the old tumbler including things like tigereye and ocean jasper with great results. Also hardness is a deciding factor in choosing rocks for the tumbler barrel. Soft rocks, under Mohs 5, can be pretty tough to tumble so mostly are better slabbed and cabbed....Mel
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morticiamonroe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 147
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Post by morticiamonroe on May 22, 2009 18:31:44 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to reply, sabre, and I learned a great deal from your post. You answered a lot of my questions and I think I'm ready to get back on it.....I HAVE had a few stones shatter and now I know why, and how to avoid it. I am beholdin...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2009 18:46:58 GMT -5
Your thread title made me want to say "approach slowly and quietly while wielding a hefty weapon in case the stone decides to turn on you and attack !!!" Sorry, Im a smart a$$. I just wanted to add.........I will usually cut the material in two different directions because by cutting in just one direction, you may be missing out on a great pattern. Even something such as a moss agate that seems to have a similar pattern on all sides.......when you cut in a couple of different directions, you will get two totally different looking slabs. Mel is correct on using light pressure and "letting" the blade grind through the rock. However I, like many other members dont have that much patience LOL. Personally, I would rather push a bit harder, cut faster and go through blades more often. Shannon
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karock
has rocks in the head
Member since November 2007
Posts: 667
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Post by karock on May 22, 2009 19:15:38 GMT -5
Mel, Morticia, and Shannon have great comments. Some stones are just prone to disintegrating when being slabbed. I once slabbed one across grain and it was fine. When I went parallel it broke up. My 7" saw vibrates because the arbor bushing is worn or something and stones will crack there more than my 10". Sometimes you are forced to cut around pits and soft spots to get something good to freeform from what is left. Heck - only 12 slab sessions and a few fractures ? -After 120 slabbin sessions and you will be able to X-ray the rock with your intuition and WALA, You will be just as good as these other rock slabbin crazies Just go after it, try not to second guess your self too much. "Good Sailors" are made on a stormy sea and experience is knowing alot about what not to do (because you learn from the mistakes!)
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morticiamonroe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 147
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Post by morticiamonroe on May 23, 2009 8:18:13 GMT -5
Thanks so much for all the advice, everyone, and you've motivated me to get back out there today and get going.
Weeshan, I loved your comment and somehow knew you'd be able to see that angle as well, ,,,your photo shows an impish gleam in your eye and I aready had you pegged as a girl with a great sense of humor. I haven't met that Rambo rock yet, but when I do, I consider myself going pretty well armed with that tile saw and a streak of determination. They WILL succumb.
I usually do "Let the rock do the cutting", but some stones are so hard I feel like I HAVE to push them a bit...I guess I need to back off a little on those. Like people, maybe even rocks are easier led than pushed.
Karock, your comment made perfect sense, I am the ultimate "Old salt's" daughter. And you're right about practice as well. School let out for the summer here yesterday, so my time is finally a little more my own.
Now if I can just find a pair of safety goggles with windshield wipers....
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on May 23, 2009 11:33:51 GMT -5
I usually get the stone wet then look at it and take my best guess as to cutting. I look mostly for patterns. Then cut a couple slabs and if I don't like the result I reposition the rock. I'm mostly concerned with patterns and take my chances with fractures. I use cheap Chinese blades so if I bend one when a rock fractures it's not the end of the world. I can usually hammer them flat and they are good for another few months but generally start dishing after 6-12 months of daily cutting.
Once I've got good slabs coming out and get as much as I can until I'm down to the end piece. I glue the end piece on the flat side to a 2x4 or 2x2 with white wood glue then continue cutting. I let the saw cut through the wood on the last slice leaving a paper thin layer of wood then soak the slabs in water a hand dishwashing soap for 24-48 hours to get the oil and glue off.
Rick
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Post by Michael John on May 23, 2009 17:33:19 GMT -5
I went WAY back in the forum to remind myself of what you bought from me. VERY oddly, I remember much of that batch! It was a mix of some of the stuff that I collect and some stuff that I took in trade. It was quite a nice batch!
You're facing the same dilemma that everyone does with a lot of stones. Obviously, you've done enough cutting to learn that the way that you cut a stone makes all the difference, and that realization is very important.
I'm sure you already know that the first step with a rough stone is to get it wet and study it carefully, and you've obviously learned that this only works part of the time. One problem with that is that a stone's texture, patterning, coloring, fracturing, etc, all change throughout the stone. Another problem is that it's almost impossible, with some stones, to visualize what a flat, sawn surface will look like compared to the rough, bumpy surface you're looking-at. The first problem is out of your control, but the second problem isn't!
In this case, what I do is study the outside of the stone, and whatever areas look like they have good possibilities, I shave just a minimal flat "window", so that I can get a good idea of what slabs will look like if I start from there. It's not at all uncommon for me to shave 3 or 4 "windows" on a stone. This allows me to have a much better idea of what's throughout the stone, giving me a much better probability of choosing the best possible way to cut it.
Some stones aren't optimal to cut in one direction throughout the entire stone! Sometimes, for instance, half of the stone may look gorgeous cut in one direction, but then the pattern changes. So, rather than continue, you re-examine the rest of the stone to determine what the best way to cut will be. Although this may sound like a pain in the butt, the fact of the matter is that this is a GOOD thing! With these types of stones, when you're done cutting it, you have a handful of slabs that are all gorgeous, but all very different and unique! Sometimes it looks like they're not even cut from the same material! A lot of time, by using the "little windows" method I described, you can tell, before even beginning to slice, that you're going to slice "this part" in one direction, and "that part" in another direction.
Also, I'm sure you've learned that sometimes stones just don't cooperate. They chip, break, crack, fracture, crumble, etc. Your only hope with these stones is to vary the rate of speed/pressure that you cut them. Most of the time, you want to cut these slower, but some of these stones actually benefit from being cut faster! It's just a matter of experimentation and then experience.
If you're having stones shatter in your hands, you're definately doing something wrong. That problem is either speed, force, an unsteady hand, or lack of alignment ... or a combination of these...
Speed and Force) Get a feel for each stone. You'll learn that every stone will have an optimal speed/force ratio for being cut. Just because you CAN cut a stone faster by exerting more force doesn't always mean that you're going to have the best results by doing it. Cutting slabs 30 seconds faster each isn't a benefit if half of them break.
Steady hand) Are you still afraid of the blade? Fear and lack of confidence are your enemies. Don't worry. The blade WON'T hurt you! I've shoved my hand into the blade probably 100 times! A mosquito bite hurts more! Get both hands all up in your work! Hold that stone however you need to so that it remains steady and on course. That usually means having one hand holding the stone and the other hand holding the slab that's being cut, on the opposite side of the blade, with your fingers right next to the blade. That's fine!!! The very worse that could happen is that you might nick your nail polish LOL. When holding the stone this way, ensure that you're putting equal pressure on both sides, so that your blade cuts an even slice through the stone. If you let it drift even just a little, chances are that the slab will break before the slice is finished, the blade will bind in the stone and send the stone flying, or both.
Alignment!) Always stand behind the blade when cutting slabs. Period. Stand so that your eyes are looking right down the middle of the blade. ONLY from this angle can you see, without a doubt, that your cut remains straight and true. Although you could also get this perspective in front of the blade, you'd get soaked plus you'd get pelted when a rock decides to kick. From the side, you do not have the proper perspective to keep your cut consistent.
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morticiamonroe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2008
Posts: 147
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Post by morticiamonroe on May 24, 2009 9:10:54 GMT -5
Hi MJ, You're right about that box of stones,,, there's some sweeet ones there,,,hence my reluctance to cut too soon and all crazy-like. I spent yesterday (for the umpteenth time) wetting them down, identifying, organizing, separating, just loving them in general. Never happier than sitting indian-style amid a pile of stones with the hose running and a wet a** My old man thinks I'm a freak. One of the stones I got was kind of green with raspberry colored patches in it. Do you know what that is? It's exquisite. I think the hardest time I'm having now is making a uniform cut. But I suppose it all comes like everything else, with time and experience. Excellent advice from you, as always.
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Post by Michael John on May 24, 2009 10:54:54 GMT -5
One of the stones I got was kind of green with raspberry colored patches in it. Do you know what that is? It's exquisite. Probably one of the stones I took in trade. From what you've described, without seeing it, my first guess would be ruby in zoisite. But that's just a shot in the dark.
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Post by Bejewelme on May 24, 2009 19:03:39 GMT -5
Morticia! GF, I am glad you ask this question, because I am not a fan of cutting, and it is difficult to decide how to start!!! Randy is the slabbing king, perfect uniform cuts making the most of the material, most likely because he has been doing it a LONG time! One thing these rocks teach you is pateince in every area of dealing with them from cutting to tumbling to cabbing to wrapping!!! My advice is to start with rocks you have multiples of and get a feel for it, then if you ruin some you have back ups! As far as thickness and so on, I like slabs about 1/4 inch thick for cabbing, but you must decide what you are going to do with them and go from there! Now get good at this, then you can cut my rocks for me and I will cab for you, LOL!!! Amber
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Post by Tonyterner on May 26, 2009 12:31:29 GMT -5
Well you have to be very stealthy. Make sure its night and try to do it in a dark alley. Wear all black and sneakers. If you are lucky you should be able to get close. Oh wait, I think you were talking about something else. Sorry. ;D
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