sleuthgal
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Post by sleuthgal on Feb 2, 2011 23:53:17 GMT -5
:help: Hello everyone, "another" newbie. Calling all flat lappers out there. Need info and advice on flat lap equipment since equipment is costly I would like to make the right purchase the first time.
I am concidering the small portable units from Ameritool and Kingsley North, 90 day motor warranty, 1 year warranty on rest of equipment. I am also looking at the Covington Maxi lap, life time warranty on motor and unit less operator use and abuse of course.
My major concern on the smaller portable units is the motor burning out. I have researched the Inland All-In-Wonder and will keep clear of that equipment. Are the smaller units worth the money that they are asking (i.e. $400-$600) and do they do the job like the heavier duty Covington that is only a few hundred dollars more (i.e. $750-$1050).
I work with small pieces 1/2"- 3" and only need to polish out a window, or one side. I do have friends that will likely ask me to polish something a little larger probably up to 5" once I make my purchase.
Thanks everyone, your input is greatly appreciated.
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drjo
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Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
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Post by drjo on Feb 3, 2011 0:14:31 GMT -5
Welcome!!!
There have been great debates here on this very topic, try the search function, this comes up about every 3-4 months so there's a multitude of info...and my 2 Inlands are over 6yrs old and going fine.
Dr Joe
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Post by NatureNut on Feb 3, 2011 7:22:14 GMT -5
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Post by 150FromFundy on Feb 3, 2011 7:45:06 GMT -5
I have been using the Ameritool 8" Universal HG Grindr for a few months now and am really happy with its performance. It is expensive, and you will have to buy a few additional disks on top of the base price.
The base unit comes with a 180 mesh metal-bonded disk, three sanding pads, and a felt pad with 12,000 mesh diamond paste.
You will have to add one disk on each end. You will want an 80 or a 100 mesh metal-bonded disk for the initial removal of saw marks, or cutting the dome on a cab. The 180 mesh that comes with the unit doesn't have enough bite for the first round of grinding.
You will want a felt pad with 40,000 mesh diamond paste to give you the mirror like shine that you see on commercially sold slabs and end cuts.
Here is another problem that will require additional disks. The thee sanding pads that come with the unit are flexible. That makes them ideal for sanding the domed surface of a cab, but not so good for sanding flats of slabs and end cuts. I put an additional foam pad under my sanding disks to make them even more flexible for conforming to the domed surface of a cab.
I had to buy three additional metal-bonded disks to finsh flats on slabs and end cuts. The metal-bonded disks are rigid. The sanding pads are flexible.
At $70 for an 8" metal-bonded disk, the extra disks cost $280. The extra disk, felt pad, and diamond paste was about another $50. This is an expensive addiction, sorry I mean hobby.
JSGems had the best price on the base unit that I could find. Significantly less than what Ameritool charges from the factory.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Darryl.
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chromenut
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Member since December 2009
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Post by chromenut on Feb 3, 2011 10:12:49 GMT -5
I am having tons of fun with my Hi-Tech 8" flat lap. Took me one year to wear out my disks, and that was a LOT of cabs going over that. I love the thing. I bought mine lightly used for $230, new they sell for about $450, they include 4 discs plus a finish disc, each on a nice heavy-duty aluminum backing. I tried, for two weeks, a 6" flat lap and found that it was almost worthless to me. Remember that, for the size of the lap, your work surface is less than half the width of the disk. So you have less than 3" to work with on a 6" flat lap. I took mine back and bought the Hi-Tech because I couldn't stand the tiny work surface on the 6". I started with the Inland Swap Top 6", and not just a problem with the size of the work surface, but you can't work around the edges very well, and if I put any weight on the lap the motor almost stalled out. Wow, nothing like the Hi-Tech, you CAN'T stop that motor! I've done maybe 200 cabs or more on it since buying it over a year ago, definitely love the thing and you couldn't get it away from me unless you knocked me out...lol.... You can check out the factory link for Hi-Tech here, but don't pass out from their price, that's way more than you will find them for sale. Now I'm a big guy, 6'2" tall and 325 lbs, so I like some space to work on my cabs. I actually use this indoors in my game room, because as long as the splash shield (black piece around the top) is in place you don't make any mess at all with it. Amazing. Also the motor is dead quiet, so I can cab at 2 in the morning, when I'm not sleeping well (which is when I normally use it) and don't have to worry about waking up the house. Here's the kit I purchased: ![](http://www.cabbingmachines.com/images/all-u-need.jpg) And a very good summary of several flat laps, including the Hi-Tech unit you can find here. Really good, short and sweet. This is what convinced me to buy the Hi-Tech. Found the Ameritool 8" flat lap, looks to be very similar to the Hi-Tech and is cheaper, but don't know if it comes with all the disks or not, and I can't say anything about the motor on it.
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NDK
Cave Dweller
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Post by NDK on Feb 3, 2011 15:58:33 GMT -5
If you're handy, or are close to someone that is, build your own! A flat lap is basically a motor with an arbor on it. Check the home made equipment section. Several members have home built ones. I built an 8" and have 5 rigid diamond discs (100, 260, 400, 600, &1200 grit), and 5 leather pads charged with diamond paste (600, 1200, 3000, 14,000, & 60,000 grit) for mine, and have less than $150.00 into it.
Welcome aboard, and enjoy whatever you decide. It's great fun! Nate
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sleuthgal
starting to shine!
Member since February 2011
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Post by sleuthgal on Feb 3, 2011 16:40:14 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your input on the Ameritool flat lap and the Hi-Tech All-U-Need. Anyone out there use the 8" Covington maxi lap set up?
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chromenut
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Post by chromenut on Feb 4, 2011 1:03:35 GMT -5
I think that for what you'd spend on the Cov Maxi, you could get a pretty darned good vertical lap....
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sleuthgal
starting to shine!
Member since February 2011
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Post by sleuthgal on Feb 4, 2011 8:09:33 GMT -5
Thanks Chromenut, but I'm not a big fan of the verticals, for me there is something about sitting over a flat lap creating your work, kinda like slinging clay on a potters wheel. I know the verticals are much faster and I would get more for my money....... but, I likes what I likes.
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stefan
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Post by stefan on Feb 4, 2011 11:38:10 GMT -5
Give serious consideration to building your own! If you love the idea of the potter wheel thing-think of the satisfaction you will get from building your own! I'm a vertical person- bought my 2 drum Lortone from a member here that got it from another member- thing has to be 35 or 40 years old but I LOVE it to death. The only problem is I cant do large flats (t-eggs and geodes). I've been kicking around building my own flat lap for several years now. I keep my eyes open for the right electric motor every time my wife DRAGS me to a yard sale. When the motor comes along I'll know its time to Build!
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Post by rockmanken on Feb 4, 2011 12:34:58 GMT -5
I have had an Ameritool for over 7 years and several hundred cabs on it (well over 1000) and just used it this AM . Works fantastic for me. You do need a more agressive first hard disc(preferably 80 grit). I also have several vertical units. Ken
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 4, 2011 12:57:38 GMT -5
If you're thinking of building your own vertical machine, you might want to try using a vertical arbor with the motor mounted off to the side. Use 3 or 4 step pulleys on the arbor and motor, so you can adjust the wheel speed as needed. You don't need the full 1725 RPM's for most vertical work. Covington has the vertical arbors in their catalog. A bit expensive, but well worth it. Don
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Feb 4, 2011 16:13:42 GMT -5
I now have a 100 and 260 metal bonded discs along with fairly well worn original discs. I also have the original diamond paste. I think it is 14,000. I get a good shine on my cabs. Is doing end pieces and slabs that much different that I would need to go up in diamond paste mesh?
I also have more backing discs that my son made for me. If I want to use leather and cerium oxide, I was thinking about a chamois. Should it be foam backed? Would that be sufficient for slabs and end pieces?
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 4, 2011 18:06:28 GMT -5
For polishing flat surfaces, you'd be best with a solid backing. With a soft backing you may snag an edge and send your piece flying across the room. Chamois is much too thin and soft. Use something like elk hide.
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chromenut
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Post by chromenut on Feb 4, 2011 19:42:59 GMT -5
Thanks Chromenut, but I'm not a big fan of the verticals, for me there is something about sitting over a flat lap creating your work, kinda like slinging clay on a potters wheel. I know the verticals are much faster and I would get more for my money....... but, I likes what I likes. Well, birds of a feather, I'm the same way. I've spent enough on my flat lap by now to buy me a really mean vertical wheel lap. I find sitting at my flat lap one of the most relaxing things I've ever done. My wife doesn't get it, but then she doesn't get anything about any of my hobbies...lol...
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chromenut
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Post by chromenut on Feb 4, 2011 19:45:28 GMT -5
I have had an Ameritool for over 7 years and several hundred cabs on it (well over 1000) and just used it this AM . Works fantastic for me. You do need a more agressive first hard disc(preferably 80 grit). I also have several vertical units. Ken Gotta agree with you there Ken, that 180 just isn't cutting it, (pun intended) especially on the harder stones. Spend way too much time shaping on my Gryphon grinder so I can do less time on my first lap. Guess I need to hit up John at JS and see if he has a good 8" lap at 80, would be a time saver for sure.
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chromenut
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Post by chromenut on Feb 4, 2011 19:49:15 GMT -5
Thanks Chromenut, but I'm not a big fan of the verticals, for me there is something about sitting over a flat lap creating your work, kinda like slinging clay on a potters wheel. I know the verticals are much faster and I would get more for my money....... but, I likes what I likes. Okay, seeing as you want some comfort when working your machine, STAY AWAY FROM 6" FLAT LAPS. They are just too small and within a month you'll be wishing you'd gone up to the 8". As to geodes and larger flat, face polishing, well yes you can do them on the flat lap, but a better bet would be what I'm searching for now, a vibrating flat lap. What's so great about them is you drop your rocks in there, weighted if necessary, and turn it on and let it go. No real work. Me, I have hundreds of geodes and always looking for more, and just chomping at the bit to halve them and do a nice face polish.
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Feb 4, 2011 21:31:29 GMT -5
I kind of wish I would have bought an 80 as well but the 100 does pretty good. Still not easy doing completely flat pieces as far as polishing goes. No problem just getting rocks flat though, just not removing all the scratches. I suppose I will just have to keep working those pieces that I want polished well.
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sleuthgal
starting to shine!
Member since February 2011
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Post by sleuthgal on Feb 5, 2011 11:16:00 GMT -5
Yippeee, Thanks to everyones for your input, I will soon be the proud owner of a bran spankin new Hi-Tech All U Need. Chromenut you would be proud, and the price was much less then MSRP listed ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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chromenut
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Post by chromenut on Feb 5, 2011 19:57:53 GMT -5
You got a pretty good deal. I lucked into mine, it was an ebay auction from an estate sale and they didn't know the value. $250 complete kit.
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