peacemaker
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2012
Posts: 4
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Post by peacemaker on Feb 9, 2012 3:20:22 GMT -5
Hello All, Can't believe this Board Exists! I have a feeling I'll be spending MANY 'Hours' reading and learning!
Ok, so I have the two 3lb barrel 40B Lortone Tumbler and bought it as a KIT (3lbs or Rocks, SS and plastic tumble media, soap, Grinding/Polishing media, etc...). I bought this over two years ago and am finally using it!
Question 1: Does it really take 7-10 days to do the first grind? The reason I ask is because when I opened mine up after 26 hours (to let out any gasses and check stones) and couldn't BELIEVE how 'smooth' the stones were! I washed off a number of stones and check them all out and was very impressed... I added back a half-tea spoon of 60-90 Silicon Carbide media.
Question 2: If I DO have to keep this thing running for 7-10 days straight and Since this step requires such a LONG time to finish, would I be better off to use my stand up Sand-Blasting Cabinet for the 'next batch' and blast each individual stone? (they are big enough to hold fairly comfortably). I have 40lb bags of the 60 grit abrasive (same stuff as in the kit) that I use for my steel and glass projects that I would be using as 'blast media' I also have finer grits, but not of the Silicon Carbide type...
I really can't tell what type of ROCKS I am tumbling as BOTH bags are of the 'Mixed Variety'. One is called 'Mixed Slices' (looks like agate) and the other is called 'Pot Luck' and they are all (stone-like Gems).
Finally, Is it POSSIBLE to tumble Fluorite or is it too soft? I backpacked about 80 pounds off a Mountain 5 years ago and haven't done Anything with it yet! Most of the Fluorite is Green with about 10 pounds of Purple. (Not that it matters, but I also found a few dark Barites as well!)
Any help is MUCH appreciated!
Cheers,
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Post by johnjsgems on Feb 9, 2012 8:34:35 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. The first step takes as long as necessary to round the stones and remove any pits and cracks. If you have a grinder you can grind out any flaws before using the tumbler. Rushing the first step usually gives you at best an end product of shiny flawed rocks.
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Post by paulshiroma on Feb 9, 2012 9:44:15 GMT -5
Welcome aboard! That other part that you'll have to mix in is patience. That was a great piece of advice from John and several others . I think my first stages have been taking somewhere between four to six weeks. I let them run, add rocks and grit to make up for losses and just let them tumble until the pits/cracks are gone. Sometimes, the rocks get moved back if pits/cracks show up in later stages. You might search the posts for fluorite. I'm limiting myself to agates and jaspers until I can get this right. Good to meet you! Paul
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Post by connrock on Feb 9, 2012 11:09:01 GMT -5
The 1st stage or "rough" stage can take up to several months with a complete grit change every 7-10 days using 60/90 or even rougher grit. The actual length of time it takes to complete a rough stage depends on the type of rocks you're doing,their hardness and what you personally consider a polished rock to be. A very high percentage of people on this board who tumble rocks shoot for perfection and to achieve perfection you MUST rough the rocks until they are free of any flaws such as pits,cracks and any concave areas. Another point about not roughing rocks enough to get rid of these flaws is that they (the flaws) will tend to keep grit in them which causes "cross contamination". Cross contamination is when grit from a previous stage gets into the following stage(s). A piece of rough grit can stay "seated" in a flaw throughout the entire process and free itself in the polish stage which ends up scratching the rocks.
If the rocks you are now tumbling are smooth in only 26 hours they are either very soft or are "river bed" rocks that were water worn and semi rounded already.
I don't know if sand blasting the rocks will help and have never heard of it being tried.
Something that's important is to only do rocks of the same hardness in any given load.Hard rocks scratch softer rocks.
Fluorite can be tumbled but it's VERY difficult as it's very soft and better left to do until after you've been tumbling for a while.
Good luck,,,
connrock
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Feb 9, 2012 12:49:36 GMT -5
peacemaker - welcome! Another newer member here to hopefully help you get your bearings. I started with a Lortone set of rock too, and was very bewildered when I heard "months" after reading the packaged instructions with the Lortone tumber. Please allow me to help you understand. This board is comprised of some amazing, kind, generous people that want to help new folks and each other as much as they can. I am constantly amazed at the lengths to which folks go to help each other, share and collaborate. I almost said "forget it" when I heard "months" after having my expectations set to "days" by the Lortone paperwork. Here is where the conflict exists: You are now, with your exact setup, capable of producing museum-quality tumbled stone - perfect or near perfect in quality. However doing this comes at a price of "months" - which appears very daunting and can be grounds for exasperation. I think what Lortone and others are trying to do is make the barrier to entry low enough that they can actually sell tumblers to new folks - which is OK - as long as your expectations are in line with that. You can follow the directions, have some pretty rocks, and be on about your life. OR you can see the stones on here, and be completely floored and decide that this merits the time and attention necessary to achieve that level of perfection. I did this, and have been tumbling my first batches of stones for a month now, and from what I am seeing much of what is in my tumbler will take at least another month to be ready to leave the rough stage. It would be good for you to have a look around and decide how serious you want to be. This will save you frustration and help you decide when you hear particular advice whether or not this helps you get to "perfect" or if you are willing to settle for something less. I don't sense that folks judge harshly for the latter, but most everyone I've encountered here has seen what these amazing stones can become and feel it is worth the time, effort and expense to get to the best they can. I hope this helps set some level of understanding and expectations for you. I am thoroughly enjoying the process even though waiting is still frustrating at times. I DO find that seeing what others is doing really helps me stay motivated. This is a thread I keep pointing people to because the photography is good, and there are dozens of examples in one place. Start on page 2 and go on from there if you want to see a lot of really fantastic examples: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=trtphoto&action=display&thread=22055&page=2Good luck!
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peacemaker
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2012
Posts: 4
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Post by peacemaker on Feb 9, 2012 15:38:38 GMT -5
Well Thanks Everyone!
Got some GREAT information here... Obviously I was a bit 'impatient' with the process, but that's easy enough to deal with now that I've been 'schooled somewhat' and I'll learn to deal with the 'Wait' for the stones... I think I'll use my Foredom Tool on the 'cracks and crevices' of some of the stones before and during 'initial grinds' in order to 'shape' and remove potential problems with said stones. I may even have a whack at some of the 'nasty ones' with my Blasting Cabinet and see how that goes..
Now that I have a better idea of the 'Hurry up and Wait' thing, I believe I'll have no choice but to pick up another tumbler or three! Maybe some other tools as well, perhaps a new Saw for cutting? (have a new radial tile saw, but imagine that is 'unusable'?)
Now having stated the above, should I post another thread in regards to what I should be looking at buying (I'll of course research suggested items first), or should I just continue here?
Thanks Again!
EDIT: Holy CRAP on a CRACKER! I finally got through a bunch of those Photo's and I am BLOWN AWAY!.. WOW.. That IS Impressive stuff! It's almost hard to believe how such 'rough rock' can be turned into those 'things'... I am shocked at how many people have SO MANY finished pieces! It must be hard to 'sell' or 'gift' them away! (I assume that's what one does with these?.. Or do we fill one of those kiddie ball pits with highly polished stones and 'crawl around' through them when we feel the need? :0) Cheers,
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Post by johnjsgems on Feb 9, 2012 16:01:24 GMT -5
Tile saws can be very useful, depending on size and blade used. My two "best" trim saws are my KM 4" and MK 10" tile saws. Both used with good lapidary blades. You should find many discussions on tile saws in the saw section.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Feb 9, 2012 18:41:20 GMT -5
If you are looking at cabs then a saw makes a lot of sense. Some folks say not to break rock with a hammer because it can cause additional cracks - but Don (the stones in the link I posted) just busts a lot of his stuff up with a chisel and hammer.
THe 2 best investments related to tumbling that I feel I have made are 1) the lortone Qt66 - it has 2x6# barrels. The other is a UV10 vibratory tumbler. Using a vibratory on the last 3 stages of the process saves a LOT of time. There is a friendly debate over what is a better option related to vibes - but clearly the Lot-O tumbler and UV10 are both quality machines.
therockshed.com is a good place to buy the above tumblers, grit and rough - their prices are hard to beat. If you want more industrial tumblers John at jsgems has all that stuff. John can also get you a lot of belts, pads, polishers etc. if you get into that stuff.
Another options is to build everything yourself. A lot of folks do that with cool outcomes, it just depends on your particular inclination.
If you get serious about pre-forming rocks (meaning you essentially do the equivalent of the stage one rotary tumble to round everything off) you could invest in a wet grinder. I've never used air blasters so I can't say how that compares, but you can do a pretty decent job of working rock so it is ready for the vibratory (meaning you have rounded it and removed all the pits and cracks) on a good wet wheel.
Other than that as I said it really is up to you. Good luck, take photos, ask questions and keep us all updated!
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Post by susand24224 on Feb 9, 2012 21:02:46 GMT -5
Peacemaker,
When you have gotten a few batches of the harder stones under your belt, pm me if you would like for instructions on the fluorite. I've screwed it up so many times that at this point I consider myself a walking encyclopedia on what not to do.
Susan
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peacemaker
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2012
Posts: 4
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Post by peacemaker on Feb 9, 2012 21:58:47 GMT -5
Again, Some Great information!
Thanks very much,
Susan, I'll definitely be asking you about the Fluorite! Got so much of it and I'm 'itchin' to do something with it!
Cheers,
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Post by krazydiamond on Feb 9, 2012 22:07:25 GMT -5
welcome to our shared addiction, Peacemaker. looks like you are getting some good advice. i've never tumbled flourite, but i'm assuming it's a lot like glass. tricky, at best. sounds like you need more tumblers!!!!!!!!!!! (then a saw, then a grinder, then you are on the slippery slope............)
KD
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morsefire
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2011
Posts: 83
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Post by morsefire on Feb 10, 2012 1:04:18 GMT -5
Hands down, one of the best OP posts and some of the best answers.
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Post by carefreechysocolla on Feb 14, 2012 15:20:01 GMT -5
Newbie: Lots of great post here. Can you tell me how to upload pics. I'm missing it. Just started my 2nd batch of chrysocolla and would love to have people looking over my shoulder.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Feb 14, 2012 16:55:56 GMT -5
carefreechysocolla, the images should be uploaded to a free service like photobucket ( photobucket.com/ ) and there is code that you enter into the text box that allows you to link/embed the image into the text.
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