thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Jul 27, 2014 8:33:28 GMT -5
Recently new to the board, yesterday I started a new tumble going.
My previous tumbles had been with a farmer's mix of stones that either came from a seeded mine place I took the kids to or for some one pound here and there online orders. I enjoyed the initial runs of stuff, and quickly learned that rock tumbling is a front supported by the grit mafia to keep a flow of silicon carbide going, but i digress.... ( haha - please grit mafia don't put a hit on me )
Right now our ( 2 youngest sons and myself ) setup is simple - we have 2 Harbor Freight doubles running the coars, and another running the medium. ( Another aside - I seem to see where the HF tumblers of years past caught a lot of flack for belt issues and durability. i have to say all three of mine out of the box ran true, and with some 3 in 1 oil I see no drop off in performance of any of them - yet. With the July sale price of $55 each, AND a 25% coupon, getting these 3 for around $115 seems like a decent deal, if for nothing else i can use the drums down the line.)
ANYWAY - so we have not advanced to any polishing yet - i am on the fence about ordering a couple of vibes versus a few more still on sale rotary vs getting off of what the lord gave me the most of and just building the Tumblenatrix...
So - that gets us to yesterday - a little experience, a lot of reading, etc etc.
I had ordered a 10lb box of lake Superior agates from ebay. ( If the seller (74impers) is a member here - props to you. Nice bag o'rocks ) plenty of pretty out of the gate, from smalls to some stuff I can play with on my Harbor Freight ( see a theme here ?) 7 inch tile saw.
Whereas before i went with the "3 lbs total weight, water till you see it, 3 tbs of grit" school, yesterday I took what I seem to understand as the prevailing method here: Filled barrels 2/3-ish fill, added some smalls to get close to 3/4 - THEN weighed ( 3.3 lbs ) and added a tbsp per lb ( 3 and a dash). I only added 1/2 cup of water.
I have already seen one major difference: Before, when i "burped the barrels ( nice way to say I am nosy and HAVE to look every day ) I had LOTS of foaming - like almost crusty sea water foam if you catch my drift. Not today. Rocks well coated, and some i could pick out due to their singular looks had already experience a surprising amount of "cut down" and smoothing.
What does all this mean? it means already I want to say "THANK YOU" to the folks who have posted here in the past - the knowledge you share in the pursuit of an en devour you love has weight and significance - and I appreciate your willingness to spread your craft.
Enjoy your day - The HP
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zerocd
starting to shine!
Member since July 2014
Posts: 27
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Post by zerocd on Jul 27, 2014 10:51:53 GMT -5
Relevant to my interests. I can learn from the sidelines. Got my popcorn ready.
0CD
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Sandy
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 91
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Post by Sandy on Jul 28, 2014 6:07:38 GMT -5
Interesting recipe.=) I am finding lots of good instructions on these boards. I am so happy people are willing to share. I agree with you on the water. Just a tad stingy seems to help.
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Post by connrock on Jul 29, 2014 9:56:24 GMT -5
Finding the "right" recipe for tumbling is the same as finding the "right" recipe for apple pie. Tons and tons of recipes but finding the one that suits you is the key to success. One thing that's important is consistency.If you use different types of apples to bake pies you'll never got it down to what you really want and like. Same holds true for rock tumbling.You'll never get "your" recipe if you tumble different types of rocks all the time. If you like agates and jasper,,tumble them until you get the results you want by experimenting with different recipes.We all want to tumble every type of rock out there but we first have to learn the basics so we know how to adjust our recipe to suit the type of rocks we want to tumble. I don't think I've ever read any credible info on basic rock tumbling that didn't have the VERY important word "patience" in it. I for one am NOT a patient man and want everything done yesterday.I HAD to learn the hard way that this does not work with successful highly polished rock tumbling.Rock tumbling has taught me patience that has helped me go further into lapidary and even making simple sterling silver jewelery. Rock tumbling can be VERY frustrating but patience will help to overcome all of those frustrations and your goal for a highly polished rock will follow. I like to show these rocks to "newbies" to show them what patience and creating your own recipe can result in.These rocks were somewhat of an experiment I did a long time ago to see if I could actually get a high glossy shine on rocks without using a polish stage.Patience and adjusting my technique/recipe were key to my success after 9 months of tumbling the load of rocks that these 2 came from. The final stage was using Tripoli which is normally used a s a pre-polish. The one on the left is Montana Agate and the one on the right is Brazilian Agate,,,,, connrock
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zerocd
starting to shine!
Member since July 2014
Posts: 27
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Post by zerocd on Jul 29, 2014 10:17:55 GMT -5
Hello Connrock,
I've read that the grits break down during the tumble. Was your result that a medium or prepolish grit broke down to "polish" size?
Also, do reuse your "polish" by capturing the liquid after the polish tumble?
I just got a bag of rather expensive Cerium Oxide free from a DMS buddy (Delaware Mineralogical Society). A few pounds anyway.
This will be rather expensive when it's gone to replace.
I will be capturing my polish phase liquids and bottling to experiment. Right now I'm using the last of some Aluminum Oxide.
I do have quite a bit (25#) of SC/1000.. Any luck using this as polish. I never hear it being used, I know it's some hard stuff but will it work?
Chris/0CD
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Post by connrock on Jul 30, 2014 11:38:50 GMT -5
Chris,,, As you may have read I worked on that load of rocks for about 9 months so it's not something I would do again. After I roughed in the rocks for several months I put them in 220 grit,in my Lot-O(vibe)for about 48 hours.I did another 220 run for 3- days.I went to 500 grit for about 48 hours and did another 500 grit run for 3-4 days.I went to 1000 grit and ran that for about 48 hours.Did another 1000 grit and ran it for well over a week.Went to Tripoli for 48 hours and did another Tripoli run for about 2 weeks. During the second run of each grit I did not add any grit but did do the cycles using quite a bit of powdered Dreft laundry soap. So,,,,yes ,,,rocks can be polished without using any polish but the time,effort,electricity,wear and tear on equipment,etc,etc don't justify doing it.
Many years ago I tried saving my polish but again,,,it was more work and time for me so it just wasn't worth it.I had 11 tumblers running and spent a LOT of time tending to them daily.
I would imagine the 1000 sc grit would polish rocks but the time it would take isn't worth the bother,,,,especially if all one has is a rotary! connrock
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thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Jul 30, 2014 18:27:06 GMT -5
OK - so a bit of an update - After charging the tumblers as spelled out in the OP, and checking two fo the three for foaming before giving up the following day, i went out of town on business.
Today I opened the barrels - and holy smokes - this is different . Silky sudsy thick froth - and not a bit of grit to be felt - zero - nada . I dumped each barrel through a plastic colander, rinsed, and regrouped . ( The three barrels now made two and a third, so I topped up with some more agate I had cut / prepped / cubed ). Another dose up of 60/90 , some water, and let the good times roll ....
Don't want to show my hand yet - but these things are looking really neat-o, daddy-o. ....
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Post by Starguy on Jul 30, 2014 18:46:52 GMT -5
thehpSounds like too much water to me. In my three pound Lortone, I only use two ounces of water with five Tbsp of grit. If the foaming problem continues, you can try some distilled water from the grocery store. Alkaline water seems to foam more than pH 7'water. Tap water can cause problems. Let us know if you get the foaming problem figured out.
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thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Jul 30, 2014 19:59:52 GMT -5
thehpSounds like too much water to me. In my three pound Lortone, I only use two ounces of water with five Tbsp of grit. If the foaming problem continues, you can try some distilled water from the grocery store. Alkaline water seems to foam more than pH 7'water. Tap water can cause problems. Let us know if you get the foaming problem figured out. Here is a point where I can use some education, because I am at a bit of a loss... This batch = used less water, have stiff frothy foam, achieved super results so far. My question ( and I am honest here - total newb territory ) - Is foam "bad"? What harm does foam do, or problems does it indicate?
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jul 30, 2014 21:29:11 GMT -5
Foam would indicate it wasn't a thick slurry.
I've had watery batches that still seem to grind reasonably well, so it may depend on material as to results.
I will say that I've tumbled *a whole lot* of lakers and I'd want to make sure they were in a decent slurry because they are notorious for pitting or fracturing and the slurry gives them a little protection.
Glad to see you getting to it, we are heading out of town and I need to clean out my tumblers tonight I am just now realizing....
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thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Aug 1, 2014 20:10:20 GMT -5
SO I resisted the temptation to lookin the barrels tonight ... instead I took the rest of the agate and played with my tile saw, trying to cut pieces to highlight what I guess to be some pretty possibilities... On another note - is there a rock addictions support group? I can see this getting out of hand real quick ( hahaha ) - ordered another tumbler for pre-polishing, made an order to American lapidary that they just drop shipped to me from Graves ( grit - the mafia - I am tellin' ya ) , and just ordered 4 motors from surplus supply , because, well, addiction ....
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Post by Starguy on Aug 1, 2014 20:26:31 GMT -5
thehpI understand the addiction comment. I've been battling it for years. Finally just gave in and admitted I'm a rockaholic. If you keep getting foamy tumbles, you might consider using distilled water. Depending on where you live, water chemistry can vary quite a bit. If your water is a little bit alkaline, it might be prone to foaming in a tumbler. Distilled water is pretty cheap at the grocery store and you don't need too much in the tumbler. If you're using a 12 lb tumbler, you should be able to get 8 charges out of a gallon of distilled water. I've had periods where I thought the grit mafia was putting soap in the grit so I would need to use more per batch to get a decent grind. Good luck. Post some picture when you can. Later Brent
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Post by Starguy on Aug 1, 2014 20:33:27 GMT -5
I like to show these rocks to "newbies" to show them what patience and creating your own recipe can result in.These rocks were somewhat of an experiment I did a long time ago to see if I could actually get a high glossy shine on rocks without using a polish stage.Patience and adjusting my technique/recipe were key to my success after 9 months of tumbling the load of rocks that these 2 came from. The final stage was using Tripoli which is normally used a s a pre-polish. The one on the left is Montana Agate and the one on the right is Brazilian Agate,,,,, connrock connrockThat is an awesome polish you got. It's virtually mirror like.
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Post by snowmom on Aug 2, 2014 6:42:06 GMT -5
I love threads like these! the more input the better. will keep reading... thanks
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Aug 2, 2014 9:32:43 GMT -5
thehpSounds like too much water to me. In my three pound Lortone, I only use two ounces of water with five Tbsp of grit. If the foaming problem continues, you can try some distilled water from the grocery store. Alkaline water seems to foam more than pH 7'water. Tap water can cause problems. Let us know if you get the foaming problem figured out. Here is a point where I can use some education, because I am at a bit of a loss... This batch = used less water, have stiff frothy foam, achieved super results so far. My question ( and I am honest here - total newb territory ) - Is foam "bad"? What harm does foam do, or problems does it indicate? In my experience foaming, as a general rule, is not good. I have never opened a really foamy batch and had good results. When I open a barrel and the foam fills the entire head space I know I've got issues. If just the surface of the slurry is bubbly or frothy and the head space is still open everything usually has gone well. Some rocks I have tumbled create their own foam. I've done three batches of crazy lace and they always seem to foam up for the first week or two. The lace initially has a lot of softer material that grinds off fast and tends to make a lot of foam that does indeed fill up the head space in the barrel. After all that stuff is gone the grind goes at what I would consider a normal rate but not much happens at first. I think the reason that excess foam is bad is two fold. First off when the head space is filled with foam there is less room for the rocks to roll and slide as they should. The foam is essentially cushioning the rocks and slowing everything down. There is more surface tension in all those bubbles and the rocks "float" rather than tumble. Secondly all those bubbles trap grit particles and therefore the grit is not sticking to the rocks. DO NOT use baking soda as an anti-foam. Tried that once and nearly had the barrel explode. Borax seems to work to a certain degree with problematic rocks. It reduces foaming but will considerably thicken the slurry. I once had a load with borax in it that got so thick everything stuck to the outside of the barrel and there was a hollow spot down the middle. No tumbling going on at all. This issue of foaming has come up before. If the foam is minimal, you are getting a good grind, using up all the grit and not getting a swollen barrel then no worries.
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thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Aug 2, 2014 12:40:18 GMT -5
thehpI understand the addiction comment. I've been battling it for years. Finally just gave in and admitted I'm a rockaholic. If you keep getting foamy tumbles, you might consider using distilled water. Depending on where you live, water chemistry can vary quite a bit. If your water is a little bit alkaline, it might be prone to foaming in a tumbler. Distilled water is pretty cheap at the grocery store and you don't need too much in the tumbler. If you're using a 12 lb tumbler, you should be able to get 8 charges out of a gallon of distilled water. I've had periods where I thought the grit mafia was putting soap in the grit so I would need to use more per batch to get a decent grind. Good luck. Post some picture when you can. Later Brent I had this far resisted adding another photosharing site, but will set up a photobucket one I guess. Took some Pics - will add some soon ( -ish ).
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thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Aug 2, 2014 12:59:44 GMT -5
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thehp
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 52
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Post by thehp on Aug 9, 2014 17:06:12 GMT -5
So it is raining like it will never stophere in central NC, and I was bored with nothing going on but watching it rain and trying out a new snuff, when i remembered it was Saturday - which meant it was rock day . WHoopee! Week 2 updated photos This one is my fave right now : Will sort / wash / grade them tomorrow and toss some back for another week of 60/90, promote the others to some 200 .... -The HP
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Aug 10, 2014 10:00:05 GMT -5
Totally enjoying seeing your progress here. Looking good!
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SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
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Post by SirRoxalot on Aug 29, 2014 19:11:40 GMT -5
I don't worry about foam and don't think it matters much.
I'm looking forward to another progress report!
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