hornseeker
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 268
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Post by hornseeker on Dec 11, 2014 9:04:13 GMT -5
I hate to admit it, but I think Fossilmans buddy is spot on...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 12:23:46 GMT -5
Rich, "The good ones don't need a gun to do their best work." I'm sure there is a long list of the wives of dead cops who had guns on the job who might disagree with you on that one...Mel I think it would be better served to read: The good one's don't need to use their guns to do their best work. I have personally known a number of cops with over 200 years combined experience. (likely Mel has more!) Only one of them used his weapon, and then only once, the threat was stopped, nobody died, and my friend was pleased at the result. This concept of cop/years made me ponder this further. If you count the number of cops in this country, every day there are thousands of cop/years. Very few shootings. We have dinner with a sheriff deputy and his wife. This deputy is a manager (humbly wont speak of rank, so I dont know) but he has one dude that has made three "contact" shootings. All on injured purps in the hospital. Every time, he said enough to exonerate himself. They know he is a murderer, but the only witness is dead and the system is angled in his favor. It goes all ways.
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Dec 11, 2014 13:11:59 GMT -5
What many forget these days is that times have changed and police training has changed. In bygone days, you pinned a badge on anyone and prayed for safety ( and citizens who obeyed the law unconditionally), good luck with that). In our youth, everyone was respecting cops and absolutely anyone of authority. The average citizen thought that you were guilty of whatever you were charged with. Where there'e smoke there'e fire, they would say. You must be guilty of something, why else would the cops stop you? Now we know a little better and realize that putting on a badge and a uniform doesn't make you a saint. Our cops go through a lot of training and we expect more and better justice from them. We usually get it too. but...We don't allow them to kill someone if they feel threatened by a large but unarmed citizen. We expect them to protect themselves and the citizens without using lethal means unless the situation warrants. Shooting up shady characters without sufficient cause is not acceptable policy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 13:54:22 GMT -5
We also expect them to not kill a big black dude for selling loosies. Judge jury and executioner. But they do it. We also expect them to not kill our dogs. There is a new word, puppycide, because it is now fashionable and justifiable (somehow) to just kill any dog a cop sees. But they do it. Even 50+ years ago there was training and standards for cops. I know cuz my pop did the academy and had to take some written exams over before he got hired. Back then if a cop was bad, they got thrown under the bus. Back then it was common for a cop to die "while cleaning his gun". That is he killed himself because that bus was coming. To benefit the wife and children the department wrote those up as "gun cleaning" accidents and the life insurance was paid to the beneficiaries. Today, bad cops are protected (as in the example I gave above). They get transferred or hired elsewhere (as in another example I gave above). They rarely if ever, get prosecuted for their transgressions. That is the result of strong unions. A very bad thing indeed.
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rattlehead
starting to spend too much on rocks
MI Rocks
Member since December 2010
Posts: 213
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Post by rattlehead on Dec 11, 2014 15:12:52 GMT -5
In the past four months I have wrestled a 6'9" 300 lbs man who threatened to shoot me, wrestled a 19 year old punk with a gun in his waist, and blew out my ankle helping chase down a carjacker. In my career, we've had officers shot/killed in robberies/domestics. We've also had an officer ambushed and shot with her own gun. I work for the second largest department in my state. I have never shot anyone, beat anyone down, killed a dog or even used my taser. I surely could have per department policy in all three categories, but credit not-having to on a few things. My department's training, my ability to speak to people, my patience, and my high school wrestling. I got two years until I can take my small retirement and trust me, I'm ready. I've worked with a few bad cops, and they tend to weed themselves out, unfortunatley for some it takes longer than others. Most don't make it past the background phase. Others start out good, but they allow the pressures of the job to make them crack. It hasn't gotten any easier. Everyone wants to armchair quarterback you. From the top down, and online. I blame a lot on the changing priorities of the job. When I first started it was to protect and serve. It has changed to tax (write tickets) and catalog (stop and id). With all the pressure from the administration. I'm too old to fall in line for the latter, but the new recruits will be indoctrinated into this. Policing needs to get back to their roots. 99.9% of the people I work with are honest, hard working people who put up with an unbelievable amount of crap with no desire to kill any person or animal. I think I'm lucky to work for a decent department. But with all that said, I can see how people can get a skewed picture of police based on what the media shows.
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Post by jakesrocks on Dec 11, 2014 15:30:31 GMT -5
Yup, it all boils down to the mainstream media blowing things out of proportion before all of the facts come out. That and a small handful of people who feel it's their duty to stir the pot, Starting in the White House, and rolling downhill to a couple of so called preachers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 17:39:18 GMT -5
In the past four months I have wrestled a 6'9" 300 lbs man who threatened to shoot me, wrestled a 19 year old punk with a gun in his waist, and blew out my ankle helping chase down a carjacker. In my career, we've had officers shot/killed in robberies/domestics. We've also had an officer ambushed and shot with her own gun. I work for the second largest department in my state. I have never shot anyone, beat anyone down, killed a dog or even used my taser. I surely could have per department policy in all three categories, but credit not-having to on a few things. My department's training, my ability to speak to people, my patience, and my high school wrestling. I got two years until I can take my small retirement and trust me, I'm ready. I've worked with a few bad cops, and they tend to weed themselves out, unfortunatley for some it takes longer than others. Most don't make it past the background phase. Others start out good, but they allow the pressures of the job to make them crack. It hasn't gotten any easier. Everyone wants to armchair quarterback you. From the top down, and online. I blame a lot on the changing priorities of the job. When I first started it was to protect and serve. It has changed to tax (write tickets) and catalog (stop and id). With all the pressure from the administration. I'm too old to fall in line for the latter, but the new recruits will be indoctrinated into this. Policing needs to get back to their roots. 99.9% of the people I work with are honest, hard working people who put up with an unbelievable amount of crap with no desire to kill any person or animal. I think I'm lucky to work for a decent department. But with all that said, I can see how people can get a skewed picture of police based on what the media shows. Well done Officer. Well said.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Dec 12, 2014 8:27:48 GMT -5
The good ones don’t need a gun to do their best work. Abner Louima or Kelly Thomas can vouch for that. Well . . . Abner could.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 12, 2014 10:47:01 GMT -5
Man, I love German Shepard type police dogs! The building where I used used to work on the old Camarillo AFB had a police training center right next door and every now and then they would have police dog training or trials between the buildings where I could watch them out my window. Those dogs are amazing and beautiful animals. Intelligence and athleticism seems off the scale as you watch them navigate the obstacles ....Mel
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Post by jakesrocks on Dec 13, 2014 14:05:45 GMT -5
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 14, 2014 14:49:41 GMT -5
Thanks to all who have contributed, I was very curious where this might go. I think the root question is can we be a nation of laws and a nation of truly free men at the same time, and assuming we can, where do we draw the lines to be somewhere between a police state and anarchy? I think that liberty can be a pretty risky thing, but safety is slavery.
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Post by 1dave on Dec 20, 2014 5:21:40 GMT -5
A tough balance! The full spectrum of people exist in every group. No nation can afford an honest armed policeman for every citizen. A weaponless cop is suicide. I think the same is true for a weaponless citizen.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 20, 2014 9:05:21 GMT -5
I have a friend who is a Police Officer in Atlanta,Georgia.....I asked his opinion on the subject.. Quote" Shoot an unarmed suspect for assaulting a cop? You bet your ass. that is precisely the way it use to be and that is precisely the way it should be again presently." OK, using that same reasoning we could conclude that any innocent citizen who is being assaulted by a cop should be allowed to shoot the cop. After all, as I pointed out before the Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. When I worked in the hospital and on the ambulance we routinely had people coming in that were taken in to the desert and beaten by Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Officers. One man also had his prescription medicine taken away by the officer and one of person who I know was a friend of mine. So these cops were assaulting and battering INNOCENT individuals and having been taken out in the desert away from witnesses had reasonable suspicion that their lives could be in severe danger. So would any of these INNOCENT civilians have the right to kill a cop to protect their own life? Ask you r friend that one!!! Personally, I have been pulled over by the police 3 times even though I had done nothing wrong, and twice even the cops told me that themselves. They just wanted to abuse their power. And I had a rifle stolen by a police officer. I finally got it back by going down and having a talk to his superiors. I had to jump through hoops to get the rifle back and he was never punished at all because he was just about to retire. We don't need to disarm the cops, but we need to police the police, which means they need to be charged criminally just like anyone else when they break the law. For instance, we had a case here where a SWAT officer punched a handcuffed suspect in the head while he was being escorted by other police. The whole thing was videotaped clearly. Even though that is assault and batter as well as a violation of other laws the cop was never arrested for his crime nor punished in any way. As long as the cops keep "protecting their own", which "their own" is not the citizens they are hired to protect the public is never going to trust the police. And when they start arresting the police maybe they will start obeying the law themselves. What some people do not seem to understand though is just because someone caries a badge this does not put them above the law and it never should. They are citizens and subject to the same laws as every other citizen. When cops are protected by the cop's code of silence and politics preventing the arrest and conviction of crooked cops all this does is make police enforcement a joke and again creates more mistrust by citizens for the police.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 20, 2014 9:07:15 GMT -5
Yup, it all boils down to the mainstream media blowing things out of proportion before all of the facts come out. That and a small handful of people who feel it's their duty to stir the pot, Starting in the White House, and rolling downhill to a couple of so called preachers. That goes both ways. How many people have already "convicted" the potential victims in these cases based on the media before all the facts came out?
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Dec 22, 2014 8:05:58 GMT -5
"Is it time to disarm the Police"
Apparently not in NYC - Execution on the streets
I believe another member of the "Religion of Peace"
Charlie
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Dec 22, 2014 10:32:44 GMT -5
"Is it time to disarm the Police" Apparently not in NYC - Execution on the streets I believe another member of the "Religion of Peace" Charlie
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Dec 22, 2014 10:44:51 GMT -5
Amazing how many progressives jumped on this bandwagon. I think Holder, Obama, the mayor of new York and Sharpton should all be charged with inciting violence and manslaughter. Yup, the 1st black pres has really brought race relations into the 21 century to new heights. Jan. 2017 can't come fast enough. I just hope you folks still have a country by then. But hey! What difference does it make now anyway.
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Post by 1dave on Dec 23, 2014 13:03:51 GMT -5
YEP! Look who is murdering blacks and fanning racism. It isn't the whites. Let's use a sophisticated color wheel to break us all down into absolute color groups and let the hate fly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 0:16:38 GMT -5
OMG, progressives!! lol
I had a long drive in traffic the other day. Tuned into an NPR station by accident. They had a guest absolutely screaming and foaming at the mouth about "gun owning hate criminals who cling to their 2nd amendment". This guy was seemingly (was he acting?) out of control with anger. His stated goal was to foment further anger by his words.
Kinda made me laugh. I have my share of weapons. Never wanted to shoot anyone, never hated anyone as much as he seems to hate me. He and I?? We've never met. But he hates me. He said so. lol
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Dec 24, 2014 2:44:38 GMT -5
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