jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 5:33:06 GMT -5
The next question-- Can 500 be run in three hours, 1000 in 3 hours, 5000 in 3 hours and 14,000 in 3 hours ?? hmmm. That just can't be. I gotta try that. captbob-Remember when I said my rotary was laying down a 220-500-1000 finish in 12 hours each, and I was missing 5000. And 14,000 was too big of a jump IMO. I still believe that this soft obsidian can be finished quick using a lot of grit steps. Just give me a machine that will not bruise it. Or filler that will keep it from micro pitting. Or batter/thickener that will keep it from micro pitting. My hard PVC rotary barrels continuously bruised and/or pitted it. No matter how thick the slurry or how much filler I used, those dang barrels or my process was bruising it. Been running the obsidian in the vibe too wet. It's still getting bruised and pitted. Take the 500 step for instance. I put it in the vibe with a 220 finish and in less than a day I have a 500 finish laid down. Now I am waiting for the grit to break down, so that it will get to say 1000 finish. During that day or two, the delicate 500 finish is bruising faster than the grit is breaking down. This is what I think is happening. It is a viscous cycle. And my fault for having the vibe slurry too wet for obsidian. I just got a vibe, I have no experience with it, so I am learning. Yes, another theory. But the test is going down. Today and tomorrow I am going to do just that. 1 tablespoon sugar per pound, light water, AO 500, 3-4 hours (35 micron range) clean out 1 tablespoon sugar per pound, light water, AO 1000, 3-4 hours (18 micron range) clean out 1 tablespoon sugar per pound, light water, AO 5000, 3-4 hour (5 micron sifted) clean out 1 tablespoon sugar per pound, light water, AO 14,000. 3-4 hours (1 micron range) Vibe tumbler set at high speed. And the basis for this experiment was a 3 hour polish on a poorly prepared stone using a sugar batter and fast vibe setting. I did find a pound of industrial grade precision sifted AO 5000 from Kramer industries, it cost $39/pound. A cheap price for single grade micro mesh AO.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 6:06:05 GMT -5
I would be very careful using sugar as a thickening agent. On a couple of occasions I've had bad experiences with it. Make sure everything is absolutely clean before using sugar. And DO NOT use any sort of organic material for padding, such as wood chips, walnut shells or leather scraps. The mixture of sugar, water & organic material will cause fermentation, resulting in gasses building up in your tumbler barrel. The lid will be blown off of your barrel, resulting in one heck of a mess to clean up, and a very foul smell in your shop. I've used plain old oatmeal as a thickening agent with good results. Just be sure not to let your rocks dry out before rinsing them. If you allow them to dry, the oatmeal sticks like glue. I do OK with sugar in the rotary Don. Just on polish stage for the most part. Never added organics with the sugar; thanks for the heads up. Pressure build up should not be a problem in the vibe since it is not a pressure vessel. I do have problems with ants and raccoons scrounging in the area the sugar slurry gets dumped. And more than one coon has fallen to a trap set there.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 11:25:35 GMT -5
Am one hour in to this experiment. Have pulled the stone that had the 3 hour polish after 1 hour in AO 500. The 500 removed the polish in less than 1 hour. Will let run 2 more hours for a total of 3 hours. Then clean out and move to AO 1000 for 3 hours. If finish appears to be a 1000 finish, then to AO 5000. After 1 hour, stone positioned for maximum glare angle, no reflection whatsoever Before 1 hour in AO 500, stone also positioned for maximum reflection cleaned out at 1PM. 12 tbsp sugar and 2 tbsp of AO 1000
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meviva
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Post by meviva on Jan 23, 2015 11:39:52 GMT -5
jamesp Can't wait to see your results. Have you ever experimented with hard water vs soft water or bottled water? When I was in Quartzsite a couple of weeks ago I was talking to one of the vendors that sold grit and polish. He told me not to do the polish stage in hard water, which is what we have in the Phoenix area, but to use bottled water instead. My batches seem to have done well with the hard water but wonder if the results would be better using distilled. I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Andrea
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 12:26:16 GMT -5
jamesp Can't wait to see your results. Have you ever experimented with hard water vs soft water or bottled water? When I was in Quartzsite a couple of weeks ago I was talking to one of the vendors that sold grit and polish. He told me not to do the polish stage in hard water, which is what we have in the Phoenix area, but to use bottled water instead. My batches seem to have done well with the hard water but wonder if the results would be better using distilled. I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Andrea Andrea, hard water can not be good. Everyone's porcelain coated cast iron sinks in Salt Springs Florida that leak have a channel carved in the porcelain where the water dribbles down it. And that is very hard water. To cut a groove in porcelain, abrasive or chemical attack is a sure thing. How are you guaranteed that your bottled water is not hard ? I know the water companies in Florida run the water thru a softener process to meet FDA standards. Our water is medium soft from the well. I use lake water; it is mostly rain water. is rain water hard ? I do not know.
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meviva
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Post by meviva on Jan 23, 2015 12:49:35 GMT -5
Somewhere I have a test kit for testing water for hardness. I'll dig it up and test the tap water and distilled to see the difference.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 13:22:58 GMT -5
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meviva
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Post by meviva on Jan 23, 2015 14:25:46 GMT -5
Found my water hardness test kit (for fishtanks). Tested my tap water and distilled water. These are the results if I understood it correctly. Tap water KH (which measures carbonate and bicarbonate ions) = 100-200 ppm. Distilled water KH = 0-50 ppm Tap water GH (which measures calcium and magnesium ions) = 200-400 ppm Distilled water GH = 0-50 ppm So my tap water is quite a bit harder than the distilled water. Not sure how it affects the polish on rocks but it might be worth a try and see what happens. Sorry jamesp for hijacking your thread. I am interested in your results. Andrea
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 15:50:46 GMT -5
Found my water hardness test kit (for fishtanks). Tested my tap water and distilled water. These are the results if I understood it correctly. Tap water KH (which measures carbonate and bicarbonate ions) = 100-200 ppm. Distilled water KH = 0-50 ppm Tap water GH (which measures calcium and magnesium ions) = 200-400 ppm Distilled water GH = 0-50 ppm So my tap water is quite a bit harder than the distilled water. Not sure how it affects the polish on rocks but it might be worth a try and see what happens. Sorry jamesp for hijacking your thread. I am interested in your results. Andrea Here, I'll help hijack it. Water interests me Check out this hardness map Andrea. Arizona sure has hard water according to territory map. www.testmydrinkingwater.com/water-university/water-hardness-chart.html
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meviva
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Post by meviva on Jan 23, 2015 16:47:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. Seems like half the country has hard or very hard water. I think I'm going to try using distilled water in the polish stage, maybe even pre polish to see if there is a difference. Andrea
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meviva
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Post by meviva on Jan 23, 2015 16:50:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. Seems like half the country has hard or very hard water. I think I'm going to try using distilled water in the polish stage, maybe even pre polish to see if there is a difference. Andrea
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 23, 2015 17:11:37 GMT -5
Congrats, jamesp!! Have to admit I was surprised to read that you put sugar in your 'new' vibe, but awesome that it's giving your obsidian a killer shine! I've used plain old oatmeal as a thickening agent with good results. Just be sure not to let your rocks dry out before rinsing them. If you allow them to dry, the oatmeal sticks like glue. Will have to give oatmeal a try. Did you use it in a rotary, vibe, or both, jakesrocks?
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Post by jakesrocks on Jan 23, 2015 17:38:48 GMT -5
I used it in a rotary. You have to experiment a little to keep it from getting too thick. Think I used about 3 tablespoons in a 9 lb barrel.
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 23, 2015 17:52:00 GMT -5
Thanks, Don! jamesp, are you going to take the oatmeal plunge/experiment?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 18:33:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. Seems like half the country has hard or very hard water. I think I'm going to try using distilled water in the polish stage, maybe even pre polish to see if there is a difference. Andrea I did not think about the vibe where all the polishing is done. Use bottled water there, for the reason that it is clean from foreign grit and polish. The bottled water has probably been softened too. The grinding operation may turn the water hard, or the abrasives as they break down. No telling what reactions are going on in a tumbler. Looks like soft water is no where to be found. The springs in central Florida(Ponce de Leon's fountain of youth) has a large variety of metals and compounds. Including phosphate, nitrogen and potassium making it great fertilizer.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 18:39:34 GMT -5
Thanks, Don! jamesp, are you going to take the oatmeal plunge/experiment? If the present experiments keep going the way they are going, absolutely. LOL. I like to do what the old guys do( jakesrocks ).
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Post by jakesrocks on Jan 23, 2015 19:09:46 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 19:22:15 GMT -5
May be full of nutrients afterwards.
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Post by Starguy on Jan 23, 2015 19:37:09 GMT -5
I haven't had what I would call a successful obsidian polish. I read that corn syrup is good for minimizing the rock impacts in the tumbler. Others have thought it caused the top to blow off the tumbler. I blame this on pressurized gas bubbles in the obsidian more than anything else.
The he only time I've hat rotarys lose a top were on obsidian or glass. The books I got this tip from we're written when tumblers had 6 wing nuts to hold the top on. Modern compression seal tumblers are more difficult. I still think corn syrup is a good thickening agent for tumbles that are tender.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 24, 2015 0:16:54 GMT -5
You are not alone Starguy. I have heard of using Karo syrup. It may be corn syrup. Do garnets take a long time to tumble Brent ?
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