lilacmoth
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
Posts: 160
|
Post by lilacmoth on Jul 3, 2015 1:22:21 GMT -5
I give up! I've been trying to polish beach quartz and I'm about to throw it all out the window. It's fine through the rought grit (80 grit) and the next stage ... which I don't know that is, to be honest. I'm using this grit pack from Amazon: Tumbling Grit It has good enough reviews, so I don't think that the issue. Anyway, the first two stages it shapes and smooths out fine, but with the pre-polish everything falls apart. The stones go from feeling nice and smooth to rough and scratched up! They have tiny scratches all over the surface and are starting to develop cracks and fall apart again. Ok, so I thought maybe the barrels are too empty, yeah? I added plastic pellets. A week later - same thing!! Formerly smooth rocks are now covered in bitty scratches. I leave the stuff in another week, make sure the barrels are 2/3 full, not that much water. I open them today and same thing!!!!! Scratchy, rough rocks where there once were smooth ones! So, I give up and defer to the experts. What am I doing wrong??
|
|
riverrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2010
Posts: 1,395
|
Post by riverrock on Jul 3, 2015 5:16:36 GMT -5
Can you show some photos?
|
|
lilacmoth
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
Posts: 160
|
Post by lilacmoth on Jul 3, 2015 5:32:14 GMT -5
Can you show some photos? I tried taking some but they didn't show the tiny scratches. I'll try again later today outside and with a better lens.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on Jul 3, 2015 6:33:48 GMT -5
Quartz crystals and solid pieces of quartz with no fractures is often easier to tumble. Agates and jaspers are really easy to tumble. Granites and water worn quartz can be difficult. Water worn quartz can pit and undercut depending on how stable it is.
If going thru the long process of tumbling you might as well try agate/jasper/pet wood lilac. Most granite and crystalline quartz is a challenge. Granite in particular. Small quartz pebbles are easier. Larger ones worse about pitting and chipping in a tumbler. Mother nature may have subjected the quartz to freezing and certainly impacts that may make the rock unstable.
Take the coral from Florida. It has probably never seen a freeze or been banged against other rocks creating fractures. It is easy to have success with.
Quartz pebbles from up here in Georgia have seen some freezing, but lots of banging causing fractures. Experience helps to tell you which ones can and can not be tumbled. Ha, trail and error. If light passes thru a quartz pebble it probably has less fractures and may tumble quite well.
I find agate bulletproof, and often have problems with others. Softer rocks require padding and/or thick slurries. Filler, etc. Try agate/jasper/pet wood for learning on.
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Jul 3, 2015 7:28:53 GMT -5
I've tumbled several barrels of quartz from the beach and load of amethyst from the Rock Shed. I finish it in a vibratory tumbler, and I've never had a problem with it. Although it shines up nicely for me, I'm always disappointed in the internal fractures and the fact that they tend to be a boring, monochrome color.
Make sure that you are not contaminating your later stages with grit from earlier stages. Your rocks should be free of holes and external cracks that can carry grit over to the next stage. Wash them very well. Also make sure that you're storing your grit so that it doesn't get contaminated. I store mine in plastic Tupperware type containers and make sure the lid is closed immediately after using it. Be sure the measuring spoon you use is not dirty.
|
|
riverrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2010
Posts: 1,395
|
Post by riverrock on Jul 3, 2015 7:38:07 GMT -5
James is Right . I think we all have a pile of ahhh rocks that just don't want to shine or get busted up. I did some Quartz a while back that took for ever to shape to get rid of the pits and cracks , and after months of back and forth . I just could not get a shine on the rocks like agates. I think I started with 30 lbs or more . I don't think I had more then 10lb to 15 lbs when I finished . But now my Grapes are very happy to have them around the base on the roots.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,456
|
Post by Sabre52 on Jul 3, 2015 7:55:11 GMT -5
Yep, Ya have to start with good rough. Quartz can be very problematic as it's often full of fractures or is composed of megacrystals that break along crystal planes. Even solid quartz crystal hunks can be pretty full of fractures by the end as the material is much more delicate than an agate or jasper with microcrystalline structure. I'd suggest you start over with an agate or jasper and forget the quartz which tends to be kind of boring and difficult to tumble anyway.....Mel
|
|
lilacmoth
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
Posts: 160
|
Post by lilacmoth on Jul 3, 2015 11:27:24 GMT -5
Thanks everyone! The issue isn't fractures. I didn't baby these rocks in the first two stages and made sure to weed out the ones with the cracks. Washed them extremely well. Have a dedicated metal spoon for the grit that gets cleaned between grits. I'll try to get a pic of the scratches a bit later. I do have some agates in the first stage in the big tumbler now so hopefully that'll be more of a success. I just really like the little beach quartz pebbles, especially the orange ones
|
|
|
Post by orrum on Jul 3, 2015 11:33:16 GMT -5
I started out with South Texas purty rocks from Corpus Christie lake campground. Gave up on them because you can't from a sows acquire a silk purse!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on Jul 3, 2015 13:05:07 GMT -5
Thanks everyone! The issue isn't fractures. I didn't baby these rocks in the first two stages and made sure to weed out the ones with the cracks. Washed them extremely well. Have a dedicated metal spoon for the grit that gets cleaned between grits. I'll try to get a pic of the scratches a bit later. I do have some agates in the first stage in the big tumbler now so hopefully that'll be more of a success. I just really like the little beach quartz pebbles, especially the orange ones I know a guy that tumbles on a big scale. Many forms of quartz start giving him problems in stage 3, 500-1000 grit in rotary. Have heard other members complain about the same problem. May not be fractures, but as Mel mentioned quartz has planes of cleavage. It is not homogenous like glass and agate. If the tumbling process is abrasive enough the round and shape, it can attack weaknesses in your rocks in a hurry.
|
|
peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
|
Post by peachfront on Jul 3, 2015 13:25:30 GMT -5
I give up! I've been trying to polish beach quartz and I'm about to throw it all out the window. It's fine through the rought grit (80 grit) and the next stage ... which I don't know that is, to be honest. I'm using this grit pack from Amazon: Tumbling Grit It has good enough reviews, so I don't think that the issue. Anyway, the first two stages it shapes and smooths out fine, but with the pre-polish everything falls apart. The stones go from feeling nice and smooth to rough and scratched up! They have tiny scratches all over the surface and are starting to develop cracks and fall apart again. Ok, so I thought maybe the barrels are too empty, yeah? I added plastic pellets. A week later - same thing!! Formerly smooth rocks are now covered in bitty scratches. I leave the stuff in another week, make sure the barrels are 2/3 full, not that much water. I open them today and same thing!!!!! Scratchy, rough rocks where there once were smooth ones! So, I give up and defer to the experts. What am I doing wrong?? Well, for one thing, even though Amazon is supposed to have a policy against businesses using paid reviews, they don't seem to enforce it against the people who sell products. (It is enforced against book sellers.) No one is going to do a free review of grit, are they? Would you? I sure wouldn't. So when you see a large number of reviews for a niche product where you'd expect maybe 3-4 people to be moved to do a review, maybe it's just as bad as if you see no reviews or bad reviews. I would personally stick to buying from a known supplier like Rock Shed, Kingsley North, etc. Maybe these guys selling on Amazon are the real deal, and maybe they're not. I have no idea. But you cannot rule out a problem with the product on the basis of Amazon reviews. There are people who make a living doing product reviews. Also the very fact that you don't know what you're buying would worry me. I just expect to be told more than "fine," "prepolish" etc. And look at the critical reviews -- the very first one star review I read it sounds like this person is having the same issue you're having. Reviewer J.L. Adams: "...It was going well until the final step (polish). The rocks did not come out shiny and I had problems with lots of white residue..."
|
|
|
Post by iant on Jul 3, 2015 14:10:36 GMT -5
I had similar disappointing results with quartz beach rocks from the outset. Followed the instructions to the rule but some are just never going to shine. Undercutting is going to happen no matter what you do. Hang in there!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on Jul 3, 2015 15:24:29 GMT -5
Agates, jaspers and pet wood makes tumbling user friendly. Makes it easy. Aggravating to have a tumbling failure. Often times soft and finicky rocks have to be tumbled longer due to padding and filler.
|
|
|
Post by adam on Jul 3, 2015 17:52:30 GMT -5
Pieces of chalcedony can be found in water ways and in creek beds along with quartz and petrified wood usually, also agate. They can all be tumbled together. I put the stones in coarse for 10 days and later stages last 6-8 days. Naturally worn agate, quartz, and chalcedony works to your advantage, better than cracking your own stones for tumbling. Some stones just aren't made for tumbling. If you got a lot of cracks it would be best to leave that stone alone, they tend to fall apart. Jaspers and agates and most chalcedony look the best for tumbling IMO.
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,681
|
Post by Fossilman on Jul 3, 2015 18:23:00 GMT -5
Through every grit cycle I clean everything,tumbler barrel,lid,rubber seals,etc-also wash the load with Dawn dish soap and clean water............. Hope you get it figured out!!!!!!
|
|
lilacmoth
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
Posts: 160
|
Post by lilacmoth on Jul 4, 2015 16:26:30 GMT -5
I give up! I've been trying to polish beach quartz and I'm about to throw it all out the window. It's fine through the rought grit (80 grit) and the next stage ... which I don't know that is, to be honest. I'm using this grit pack from Amazon: Tumbling Grit It has good enough reviews, so I don't think that the issue. Anyway, the first two stages it shapes and smooths out fine, but with the pre-polish everything falls apart. The stones go from feeling nice and smooth to rough and scratched up! They have tiny scratches all over the surface and are starting to develop cracks and fall apart again. Ok, so I thought maybe the barrels are too empty, yeah? I added plastic pellets. A week later - same thing!! Formerly smooth rocks are now covered in bitty scratches. I leave the stuff in another week, make sure the barrels are 2/3 full, not that much water. I open them today and same thing!!!!! Scratchy, rough rocks where there once were smooth ones! So, I give up and defer to the experts. What am I doing wrong?? Well, for one thing, even though Amazon is supposed to have a policy against businesses using paid reviews, they don't seem to enforce it against the people who sell products. (It is enforced against book sellers.) No one is going to do a free review of grit, are they? Would you? I sure wouldn't. So when you see a large number of reviews for a niche product where you'd expect maybe 3-4 people to be moved to do a review, maybe it's just as bad as if you see no reviews or bad reviews. I would personally stick to buying from a known supplier like Rock Shed, Kingsley North, etc. Maybe these guys selling on Amazon are the real deal, and maybe they're not. I have no idea. But you cannot rule out a problem with the product on the basis of Amazon reviews. There are people who make a living doing product reviews. Also the very fact that you don't know what you're buying would worry me. I just expect to be told more than "fine," "prepolish" etc. And look at the critical reviews -- the very first one star review I read it sounds like this person is having the same issue you're having. Reviewer J.L. Adams: "...It was going well until the final step (polish). The rocks did not come out shiny and I had problems with lots of white residue..." I'm starting to think the grit might be a big part of the issue. I got that stuff because when I got the tumbler I wanted some grit quickly to get started and Amazon has two day shipping, soooo yeah. I've since bought some other polish but I wanted to use that stuff up first. Maybe I'll give these guys another go in the new polish, maybe not, dunno. I have plenty of other rocks.
|
|
lilacmoth
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
Posts: 160
|
Post by lilacmoth on Jul 4, 2015 16:28:48 GMT -5
Here's one of the offending quartz pebbles. Ignore my nasty fingernails, lol. But see how it's covered in those little scratches? It doesn't look quite as bad in real life, because they're small and this photo is enhanced a bit, but they don't have a glassy finish at ALL. I guess that's just what quartz does maybe?
|
|
lilacmoth
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
Posts: 160
|
Post by lilacmoth on Jul 4, 2015 16:31:12 GMT -5
Here's the whole motley crew. Not a complete disaster but kind of meh.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Jul 4, 2015 17:28:28 GMT -5
Kinda tough to tell from the picture, but that piece in the first picture looks to be completely fractured internally. If that's the case, no matter how much you ran it in coarse grit to shape it, you would never get down past the fractures. If you can't coarse grind past the vugs and fractures, you are never going to have a smooth glassy surface to put a polish on.
Can't enlarge the second picture to look at the other rocks closely, but it looks like there may be many fractured stones in that batch. You can't get super quality tumbles out of a barrel if you start with poor material.
Good news is that they all look to be shaped nicely. Many here don't go to the length (take the time) you did to get the first couple stages looking so good.
I'm thinking that you have this tumbling thing figured out, you simply need better material to work with. Chalk this batch up as a learning experience and tumble some higher quality material and you are gonna be one proud lady when your next group of rocks comes out shining like a bright new penny.
Summery: You = good job! Rocks you used = meh.
|
|
quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
Member is Online
|
Post by quartz on Jul 5, 2015 0:59:20 GMT -5
I'd agree with captbob, and add that from what I'm seeing in the second pic., you have tried to polish some pieces with a rather large grain structure, the rather opaque ones. Experience has shown us, ya, we've done it too, this mtl. will get real smooth, but never polish well. At the beach or river, we keep the translucent pieces, and jaspers we know will polish.
|
|