petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Oct 1, 2015 14:05:12 GMT -5
So I bought this (professional) 12lb tumbler a while back that was supposedly built by an expert in Portland. I had it running for a couple weeks in the basement of my old house and it seemed to be kicking ass, but I just moved to a new house and went to plug it in last night in the shop and it immediately flipped the GFI switch. I tried multiple outlets in the shop and house and it flipped the switch ever time. I tried plugging it in at the neighbors house, and community building same story. Then I drove down to the local visitor center and plugged it and a it fired up running super quite and smooth. This tumbler does appear to be pretty old and the power cord was cracked in a few places so I just replaced the 3prong power cord but it still flips the GFI switch in the shop immediately. I'm not sure what to do now. This has been a tough first tumble, having to move and now this... Please help. Thanks
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Post by orrum on Oct 1, 2015 15:01:53 GMT -5
Hmmm, maybe bad GFI. It happens.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 1, 2015 15:13:00 GMT -5
Hmmm, maybe bad GFI. It happens. Exactly what I was going to suggest. Sometimes just replacing the GFI will take care of the problem. A first and inexpensive attempt. If that doesn't do it, then you'll need to look deeper. Good luck!
PS - Or, it could just be that this older motor is sucking more juice than it should?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 1, 2015 21:15:41 GMT -5
I think Petrified said that it triggered the GFI at the neighbors house and the community building too. Seems like a coincidence that they'd all have bad GFIs.
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Intheswamp
Cave Dweller
Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 1, 2015 22:46:49 GMT -5
petrified, take it back down to the visitors center and see if it still works plugged in there. It might be that in the move to the new house the tumbler was bumped or jarred and a short circuit was created. When you plugged it in at the new house it tripped the GFI. Then you hauled it to the visitor center and the physical movement of the trip may have shifted whatever was shorting out, correcting the problem...and the tumbler worked. Then, the trip back home jarred it back into it's shorted out state. I think it may trip the gfi at the center this time. Best wishes.
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Post by paulshiroma on Oct 1, 2015 22:59:41 GMT -5
x2 on Ed's comment. Sounds like a short in the system somewhere when it's tripping everyone's GFIs.
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Post by glennz01 on Oct 2, 2015 0:21:25 GMT -5
make sure its not trying to get 230v if theres a switch or wireing? I know my 1/4 hp motor has it so that you can wire it for 220v or 120v.
If the motor is old and is wired for 220 it should have a diagram that sais how to wire for 120
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 2, 2015 3:48:15 GMT -5
GFC breakers sure do go bad as mentioned. It may run on non GFC, but may not be safe.
Get an electrician to put a 'Megger' on the motor. Or he may be able to do a simple resistance check. If it is slow to kick the GFC then it will probably have to be meggar-ed. Sounds like a short in the windings, not good for the home team @petrified.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 2, 2015 5:19:28 GMT -5
Portland is in Poland?
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Post by MrP on Oct 2, 2015 5:23:51 GMT -5
A GFI works by making sure that the current on the hot leg is the same as the current on the neutral. If the two are not the same there is a leak to ground, such as bad power cord, windings shorted to motor frame, moisture, etc. GFI good, motor or cord bad..............................MrP
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Post by glennz01 on Oct 2, 2015 12:56:55 GMT -5
total misread
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Oct 2, 2015 21:44:27 GMT -5
MrP is totally correct 5 mA or greater difference between the hot and neutral will trip a GFI (ground fault interrupter). I can maybe help you but you need to give me more info.
1. The GFI is NOT part of the actual tumbler? Correct? 2. It is tripping a GFI breaker in an electrical circuit panel and not a GFI receptical? Correct? 3. You say it's tripping the GFI switch (breaker) all over your house and shop, is it the same breaker every time? 4. How old is the house? 5. At the visitor centre are you plugging into a GFI protected circuit? 6. You have replaced the cord, did you replace the male cord end with a new one as well?
Unless you have an ultra modern house that is totally GFI protected (over code) I can't figure out why you would have so many outlets tied to a GFI. I can understand the shop being totally GFI protected, but not the house.
I did not watch James meggering video but I have meggered a gazillion motors in my day. If you have a simple Ohm meter or continuity meter and the fault is bad touching one lead to the hot (narrow blade on the plug connected to the motor) NOT in the wall and the frame of the motor you can tell pretty quick if you have a fault. If it's a high resistance ground you will need a megger as my esteemed mechanical buddy says.
All in all it sounds like a high resistance-shorted motor winding, if you were plugged into a GFI at the visitor centre and it did not trip I suspect the GFI at the centre is faulty. Please be careful water, you and electricity is a fatal combination.
Answer my questions and I will try to help you more
Tom
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petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Oct 7, 2015 15:39:35 GMT -5
Hey thanks all for for taking the time to help me. Sorry for the delayed response, I have been out of town for almost a week. I would love to get this tumbler up and running, as it is right now I have a 12lb barrel loaded up ready to go just sitting.
1. The GFI is not part of the actual tumbler it is in the receptical. 2. It is tripping the GFI in the receptical not the circuit panel ( although it did flip the breaker once) 3. It is tripping the GFI in every receptical in the house and shop and neighbors house. My old house did not have a GFI and the tumbler worked great. The visitor center had a GFI in the receptical, but I suspect it was faulty or set really high and the tumbler worked great. 4. The house is 10 years old. 5. At the visitor center I plugged into two different recepticals both with A GFI. It tripped one every time but worked in the other every time:/ 6. I replaced the cord with a 3prong cord off of a router that bit the dust. The cord was in great shape.
So to test the tumbler for a short I touch one lead to the hot blade of the plug and one to the frame of the motor while it is not plugged into anything?
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Intheswamp
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Member since September 2015
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 7, 2015 15:56:48 GMT -5
You didn't smell or see anything unusual when it tripped the breaker? It takes good bit of juice to trip a breaker.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Oct 7, 2015 17:49:30 GMT -5
If it has tripped that many different breakers and run on others assume the motor may shock you. For safety reasons you need to have that motor meggerred to test for a high resistance short. test white to motor casing test white to ground on plug test black to motor casing test black to ground on plug test black to white tom ? and the megger will test high resistance shorts by pumping high voltage through the windings
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petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Oct 7, 2015 20:01:28 GMT -5
No I didn't smell or see anything unusual and come to think of it something else must've tripped the breaker in the circuit panel prior to plugging in the Tumbler. Sorry if this was already mentioned, but how do I get the motor meggerred?
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Oct 7, 2015 22:07:31 GMT -5
Ok , first of thanks for the clear answers, make way more sense to me now. You most definitely have a high resistance ground or a neutral to ground connection some where in the tumbler circuit. A GFI works by monitoring the current in the hot wire (black) and the current in the neutral wire (white). The amount of current that flows in the hot wire SHOULD exactly equal the the current in the neutral wire. If the GFI senses 0.005 amps (5 mA) or greater difference between the two conductors the protection kicks in and shuts off the power. These are life saving devices used to protect us from dying rather than protect the equipment.
James procedure would work perfect but I don't think you need bother getting an electrician to megger it as I am certain it's bad. You can run it from non GFI receptical and it will most likely work fine. You would want to unplug it before you ever touched it for you own safety. I would highly advise you NOT to play this game. If water was not involved it would not be so bad but even then it's bad practice
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it is likely unrepairable or very expensive to repair. You need a new tumbler IMO. I can't guarantee this without testing it but it's a real good bet it's shot.
Sorry about that
Tom
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petrifried
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by petrifried on Oct 8, 2015 1:28:29 GMT -5
Ok, that all makes sense. Thanks Tom. What about replacing the motor? It is an 1/8 horsepower GEmotor. I would need to remove the motor from its mount to be able to see the rest of the specs. I am not opposed to buying a lortone tumbler after dealing with this, but if I could just order a motor off eBay for $60 or so and bolt that sucker on and be in business that would be great too.
Will it hurt anything to leave the barrel just sitting loaded up with beach agates, jasper, wood, water and grit?
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Oct 8, 2015 13:14:53 GMT -5
If you can get a new motor I think everything would be fine.
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