symber
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2016
Posts: 5
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Post by symber on Jan 30, 2016 12:29:44 GMT -5
So I'm completely new to tumbling. Just got a rotary tumbler and a mix of stones as a gift and started my first batch a few weeks ago.
In the meantime, I've been reading everything I can and lurking here quite often help learn as much as I can. Id originally planned to run the first batch exactly as the instructions say and then experiment going forward, but I kind of messed that up.
I accidentally used AO polish rather than prepolish. The stones were already well shaped and rather smooth. Should I pull the rocks and do the prepolish step? Or would running the rocks for an extended polish cycle work well enough this time?
I don't really mind the rocks being lower quality than expected so long as they still turn out ok. This batch was mainly just to start learning anyway, but if there's really no chance in them turning out decent due to the mix up, then I'd rather just backtrack the one stage and waste the polish.
I haven't really seen anything talking about similar oops moments so any help would be appreciated.
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rollingstone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2009
Posts: 236
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Post by rollingstone on Jan 30, 2016 13:08:57 GMT -5
I can't actually recall seeing a post where someone has done this and then posted the results. If you search on this board or maybe even elsewhere you might find someone who has done this and reported the results, but it sounds like you have searched that and found no answers.
That means it's going to have to come down to your best judgement. Eventually the polish would put a shine on those stones but I don't know if "eventually" means 2 weeks or 2 months or whatever. If you aren't that fussy about the results you could let them go 2 weeks and then check on them to see if they are done, if they need a bit longer, or if it looks like nothing is happening. (Opening a barrel with polish in it is a messy job, so I don't recommend checking them too often).
Obviously the best option would be to pull them out of polish, run them through pre-polish, then run them through polish, but if that seems like too much and you aren't fussy about the results then you might just want to let them roll as is. If you do that, make sure you post the result!!
-Don
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symber
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2016
Posts: 5
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Post by symber on Jan 30, 2016 14:55:05 GMT -5
Yeah I certainly don't care too much about this particular batch of stones, they're basically just to get used to cleaning the barrel/stones/etc. It was a mixed bag of random rough that I received with the tumbler, which I started tumbling while waiting on an order of rough to arrive.
Thanks a bunch for the recommendations! It's nice to hear from someone that my intuition was more or less on the right track. That it may work (though take longer) is enough to have me let it run and worst case I just backtrack a stage.
I'll be sure to post the results, that way if anyone else does this they'll at least have an example to judge by.
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Post by pauls on Jan 30, 2016 16:37:22 GMT -5
The results depend a lot on what you used in the stage before the oops moment and how long the rocks were rolling in that stage. Grits break down rapidly to very fine, so they turn into prepolish anyway, there's a recent thread by jamesp where he has gone from coarse grit to polish, just 2 steps relying on the grit breaking down. So, if you followed the instructions you probably had them in the 600 grit? for a week, it might be enough time to give a prepolish. See how it goes, if they are starting to polish you should start to notice the edges of the rocks shining, keep them in a bit longer. The instructions are a guide to get you started, experiment, see what happens, soon you will have a work flow that works for you. Going back to the instuctions, 1 week in the first stage is rarely enough, the fantastic results you see here are usually the result of many weeks/months in coarse, culling cracked stones that could carry over grit to the polish, even sawing and grinding holes and pits out. See the Agates and fractures thread a few down for some ideas from old hands. Paul
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,681
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 30, 2016 17:22:19 GMT -5
I've done that,but I run my stages longer than most do,so mine came out alright...
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symber
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2016
Posts: 5
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Post by symber on Jan 30, 2016 17:43:45 GMT -5
Yeah so far each stage has been a week. No matter what happens it'll be an experiment/learning experience for sure. I'll be sure to look for that shine around the edges when I check on them in a week to see if they're making any progress.
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Post by pauls on Jan 30, 2016 19:23:04 GMT -5
Hi symber
I would stop and open it up and have a look, it can't hurt and you might be surprised how well it's going. Just grab a few rocks out and wash and dry them, keep everything away from any grit that might be contaminating benches or whatever though. If its going to happen you will see progress very quickly in the polish stage.
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symber
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2016
Posts: 5
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Post by symber on Feb 3, 2016 18:37:16 GMT -5
Just wanted to give an update. Ran the polish for 5 days. A lot of the quartz style rough, agate & tigers eye has been taking the polish well so I left them in there. The other stones I moved back a stage and set them up with a proper prepolish. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 23:05:54 GMT -5
You can't ruin a rock until its gone. If the surface is not ready for polish, back the truck up and do it again. Clean the poor surface profile up and finish it.
Never toss the rocks.
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Shelbeeray
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2006
Posts: 688
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Post by Shelbeeray on Feb 5, 2016 21:29:18 GMT -5
Each stage has only been one week? I don't think I've ever had any stage completed that quickly. I can see soft stones, pre-shaped, and without pits, crevices and flaws, MAYBE being ready for movement that quickly. I know, it takes sooooooooooooo long for each stage, but patience pays off.
I think I may need to review my instructions/tutorial. I check my rocks after the first week to see how they are looking. Then re-charge (add a bit of grit if necessary) or water. It helps give me a good idea of how things are progressing. Then I set them going again, without moving to the next stage. I check every week, sometimes more often if they are close to what I want. When they are properly shaped and smooth, I rinse, wash and move them to the next stage.
After the first stage, the rocks should be, essentially, in the shape you want them. If there are any rough areas then they need more time in that stage. Each progressive stage is, in my opinion, meant to smooth the surface. Like one would do with wood sanding. You use the largest grit on your rough wood in order to get the shape and basic surface, then progress to finer grits in order to smooth the surface, essentially preparing it for the polish.
Pre-polish is sometimes necessary, especially if we stop at 600 grit. It is basically a much finer grit. Then you go into AO polish.
Like pauls said, the tutorials are a guideline to help people get started. Different things do really work for different folks. Where I live, we have hard water, which I've found (after experimenting with our RO water) even affects the outcome! SO, yup, it is all an experiment! You'll learn as you go and refine and find your own process that works best for you.
I also found, at the beginning, that keeping a journal next to the tumbler helped too. Recording what I used, how much and whatever little detail whim had me jot down, truly aided my learning process.
Good luck!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2016 0:40:03 GMT -5
The only stage I run in a rotary for less than a week is the coarse grind. 8-12 four day runs is typical if trying to get the shaping done. Out of laziness I let it run a week, so 8-12 weeks for coarse. If coarse grit(I use SiC 30) gets circulated well from the start it breaks down to less than 220 in 3-4 days. 220 is going to have little effect on shaping the rocks. Might as well recharge with fresh coarse grit and not waste time rolling with broken down grit in the 180-220 range.
Lots would argue, but it is broken down that fast in my rotary tumblers at 30 RPM. Many run faster. How do I know that ? If I run SiC 30 for two weeks(even 8- 10 days) I can put the rocks in a vibe and have a polish using AO 500 in 4 days. Close to polish in 2 days. No way AO 500 would lay a polish down unless the rocks were prepped for it. Telling that SiC 30 was well broken down.
220-500-1000-polish should run for at least 10 days in a rotary. Smaller grit is much slower to break down. Polish can be re-used because it is the smallest grit and is absolutely slow to break down. The extreme. Polish being 1-3 microns.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 10:32:04 GMT -5
To add to jamesp above. Polish can be re-used. Tiny particles already. And if/they break down smaller, they become a better polish!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2016 13:20:15 GMT -5
To add to jamesp above. Polish can be re-used. Tiny particles already. And if/they break down smaller, they become a better polish! Have become a very lazy tumbler Scott. Run SiC 30 till it breaks down to nothing in the rotary in the last grit charge. Move them to the vibe in AO 500 till they polish. One grit for the rotary. One grit for the vibe, clean/burnish w/Borax. Simple and effective. Rarely even do clean outs, and even then not thorough except when moving to the vibe. But you gotta have a rotary and a vibe.
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symber
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2016
Posts: 5
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Post by symber on Feb 6, 2016 23:48:13 GMT -5
Yeah the instructions for each stage had only been for one week. I figure for good results I'll be running rough for much longer in the future.
I've actually been amazed that some stones have been coming along as quickly as they have. Even though it was just an experiment following their suggestions to see how it goes, I've been taking out stones that would cause trouble moving forward and replacing the needed volume with ceramic filler.
I fully expected to rerun some of these stones. Other than the learning experience, I also just wanted to run everything for their suggested minimum times since I received the tumbler as a gift. This way I can show her some basic results without making her wait several months. I'm sure with all the help and suggestions I've seen here that my successive batches will only get better.
Looking forward to the fun road ahead!
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