jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 11, 2016 10:22:32 GMT -5
Maybe someday. Meantime will experiment.
1) mass production 2) labor savings 3) focus the desirability of a tumbled stone on it's setting(cheap subject, nice setting) 4) to cut metal for setting using efficient shears and then mass anneal 5) to pre-cut said settings to a range of sizes and shapes to fit a broad range of sizes of tumbled stones 6) to tumble burs and annealing discoloration off settings in mass process via tumbler 7) to develop a device that will pre-form settings over tumbled stones/simulated dies using a press and/or vibratory hammer reducing hand work
Step 7 would be proprietary if it created a desirable product. May require a large assortment of dies to assist random shapes. R+D necessary
Notes A beautiful wire wrap on a cheap foreign coin can often bring as much money as a wire wrapped $40 cab A man at the festival was selling mass produced computer generated ink patterns in a packaged setting like hot cakes. Any tumbling operation is intriguing, and lots of tumbles in stock Tumbled rocks can handle tremendous forming pressures Bezel material in stock etc
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cobbledstones
spending too much on rocks
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Post by cobbledstones on Feb 11, 2016 12:23:06 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts, do you think that, through automation, you can get costs low enough to compete with international imports? What about electro forming/plating for 7? I have also thought about a photo-table + automated software + laser cutter = tab wrap combo, but all of that would be expensive
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 11, 2016 12:34:10 GMT -5
Or something similar to summarize a business approach to making some money making jewelry.
I have employed myself and wife for many years. An interesting situation has come up with my fire pit business. SEO-search engine optimization. My competitors have taken my business title and used it in there titles to come up well ahead of me on a google product search. The only thing saving me is a listing I have on Houzz, a site similar to Etsy for you's and I's to sell our stuff on. Except it is a home decor site. At one time Etsy was very dominate on the search. No longer, I have done something wrong or different or Etsy is not practicing SEO like they used to. Not sure. The shear numbers of customers shopping on Etsy has been the saving grace. Best source of purchasers to date over Craig's list and Houzz. But that is a special case in itself. My Etsy shop title reads 'Firepitsatlanta'. Atlanta is 6 million people within 40 miles of my home. So to avoid a $200 shipping charge they come to my house to pick up their pit.
I still have a problem in not coming up on a google search. So I made a $6/month WIX website last week. Went to Youtube and searched 'search engine optimization for WIX websites'. Well, WIX has SEO functions throughout their web site for the site owner to open and enter proper wording in proper categories to optimize search. I called the web site builder from my #1 competitor as it was listed on the bottom of my competitor's website and talked to them as a non-competing business. The phase 1 cost was $3500 to $5500 !! The monthly 'maintenance' was $1000 to $5000 !! Way too much money for me to consider.
So I was curious if they would simply go to my WIX website and optimize using the simple WIX commands and charge me accordingly. Or if they were really going to do $4000 worth of work, like spend 50 hours at $80/hour or whatever they charge. Or is my competitor simply friends with them and his friend at the web company was sharing how they rip people off daily.
Seems like people that have high skill levels like jewelry people often fail miserably at marketing. I have friends that I went to engineering school that get their inventions stolen often by search optimization from a person that simply copied their design. Said person making a fortune. Creating an internet battleground.
So, I am curious to know if I will be successful at doing SEO on my own using Youtube tutorials or whatever on a cheap WIX website. Forgive the rambling but I thought my experience may be enlightening to those selling their jewelry on the internet.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 11, 2016 13:10:58 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts, do you think that, through automation, you can get costs low enough to compete with international imports? What about electro forming/plating for 7? I have also thought about a photo-table + automated software + laser cutter = tab wrap combo, but all of that would be expensive Million dollar question. I know what cobbledstones goes thru to make 80 beads out of Alabama quartzite. I have a guess at what the market would pay for his fine handmade bracelet. I think the profit to labor ratio is not good. Metal can be processed quickly, stones not so, unless bulk tumbling OR you have a high dollar automated bead machine. Well the question has to be asked about productivity. An item that has appeal and can be made or assisted by affordable machinery/labor. IMO, electro forming/plating certain looks like an avenue. Seen such on Etsy back when and they were selling like hot cakes. Haven't researched them in several years though. And every damn rock they electro plated was finished and straight out of China. But they did the plating here in the states. 'hand made'....Selling for $45 a pop. Looking at jamesp mission statement just for an instance So my thoughts were that I have several hundred pounds of desirable USA stones in pendant sizes. In my case 'Florida Coral'. In a sort, a monopoly on an interesting and somewhat attractive highly variable stone that happens to be a fossil with interesting history. My thoughts were a fine setting and all different to highlight the 'hand made' essence. Next is to figure out how to do such and (ha) see if it will sell. In the present day jewelry market that is the tallest task. I am not Tela or radio or Bobby. I do not possess such skills. Nor have their reputation. About 90 minutes per piece is all I can handle. And doing jewelry work is not something that can be rushed. But those darn electroplaters were making a fortune on zero skill jewelry. Those Etsy emails 'you have a sale' are a rush and fun to come home to. I would enjoy having 3000 sales per year. Yes, it is pursuit of money. But I really love making stuff, especially jewelry. Payed to do it would be fantastic. Especially as retirement nears and it would be a desirable pastime. Jewelry is so competitive and so mimicked. It seems defeating in many ways. Lots of issues to consider.
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cobbledstones
spending too much on rocks
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Post by cobbledstones on Feb 11, 2016 14:45:05 GMT -5
My method of bead makin' isn't for profit, that's for sure. Modern bead factories use automated machines and sets of cams to make the shapes, tumble finish. Lapidary is only an artistic outlet for me today, but I am always thinking about ways to automate, and maybe someday have a profit driven shop when my day job doesn't eat all my available time. Its all experiments between now and then. I like to see your thought process, very interesting.
I wonder if you could hot-form the metal around the stone if they were both heated together. Would require a lot less pressure, maybe even a stiff foam or dry sand could be the support during the process
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Feb 11, 2016 15:20:22 GMT -5
1) mass production ... doesn't interest me I'm afraid. I was showing a chinese friend a few things and he was getting all excited and asked 'how many of these can you get'?
I replied 'One ... there is only one - do you get the point?'
It is coincidence the guy was chinese, but I guess it was his background that made him wonder about reproducing product-x as much as possible.
We need to stop trying to beat China at its own game. Their companies are state-sponsored to get the latest hi-tech automation. Create quality craft; the chinese can't design a robot around that.
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Post by radio on Feb 11, 2016 17:15:45 GMT -5
Interesting concept! I hope you can market and produce while making a profit. I've often considered having a large bucket of polished stones for sale at the shop. I keep a bag or two under the counter and give a few to kiddos who show an interest.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 7:57:52 GMT -5
Interesting concept! I hope you can market and produce while making a profit. I've often considered having a large bucket of polished stones for sale at the shop. I keep a bag or two under the counter and give a few to kiddos who show an interest. Tumbled stones have the most value as gifts Arlen. I give them out to clients, suppliers, friends and family. They always end up in their kids hands. Can't put a monetary on that. Sure does improve relations in dealing with people though. Indirect source of profit in many cases.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 8:15:50 GMT -5
1) mass production ... doesn't interest me I'm afraid. I was showing a chinese friend a few things and he was getting all excited and asked 'how many of these can you get'? I replied 'One ... there is only one - do you get the point?' It is coincidence the guy was chinese, but I guess it was his background that made him wonder about reproducing product-x as much as possible. We need to stop trying to beat China at its own game. Their companies are state-sponsored to get the latest hi-tech automation. Create quality craft; the chinese can't design a robot around that. Hoping to implement a machine to perform an early stage step. Finish by hand. Something only a custom made machine could perform in a pressing operation for instance. And a tumbler to finish and de-burr. Uh, skip the monotonous labor and start with a machine manipulated bezel for instance. Go into hand forming from there. A hybrid process. Could be guilty of widget mentality metalsmith. No doubt our overseas neighbors are all about mass producing. And they get better and better at it. And an increasing percentage of America is always looking for deals. Tickled by Etsy and their 'hand made' category. Lots of oversea products being sold as 'hand made'.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 8:37:06 GMT -5
My method of bead makin' isn't for profit, that's for sure. Modern bead factories use automated machines and sets of cams to make the shapes, tumble finish. Lapidary is only an artistic outlet for me today, but I am always thinking about ways to automate, and maybe someday have a profit driven shop when my day job doesn't eat all my available time. Its all experiments between now and then. I like to see your thought process, very interesting. I wonder if you could hot-form the metal around the stone if they were both heated together. Would require a lot less pressure, maybe even a stiff foam or dry sand could be the support during the process Experiments-key word. Probably the fun part. But by doing so one may stumble on a real winner. For personal satisfaction or monetary, both is entirely possible. The ultimate situation is both personal and monetary benefits. If one is competing with mass production machinery both benefits will likely not happen. The bead industry probably started the movement of high tech lapidary processes. Visiting 'Chinatown' in Atlanta. The bead shops are incredible. Wall after wall of strands. Thought about buying some of them and metal smithing with them. The guys that are playing with putting grommets in the beads could practice on cheap purchase beads over in 'creations'. Your mention of foam or sand. Yes. Some backing to press against. Exactly. May have to hand grind a library of cup shaped forms to begin a contour. Even thought about a contour generator of some sort that could be formed or pressed against.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 12, 2016 13:34:23 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts, do you think that, through automation, you can get costs low enough to compete with international imports? What about electro forming/plating for 7? I have also thought about a photo-table + automated software + laser cutter = tab wrap combo, but all of that would be expensive But those darn electroplaters were making a fortune on zero skill jewelry. Those Etsy emails 'you have a sale' are a rush and fun to come home to. I would enjoy having 3000 sales per year. Yes, it is pursuit of money. But I really love making stuff, especially jewelry. Payed to do it would be fantastic. Especially as retirement nears and it would be a desirable pastime. Jewelry is so competitive and so mimicked. It seems defeating in many ways. Lots of issues to consider. 3000 sales per year is a really lofty goal. That means creating from start to finish 8 pieces per day every day of the year and that also means dealing with shipping and bookkeeping for all those sales every day. I do not have any goals in mind for selling rocks but if I could average one sale a day of finished pendants that would be about perfect. I despise the whole marketing aspect and I am sure that kills my sales but I really hate spending the time to make all those listings and I am horrible at trying type up descriptions that would help the sale. Just taking the pictures and making the listings for 3000 items is more work then I want to think about. Chuck
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 13:52:40 GMT -5
Chuck, it would have to be a one or two photo listing with a repetitive description. A mass production process in itself. Totally agree with you. And done thru Etsy type hosting platform where shipping labels could be mass produced. Perhaps a girl Friday or two to help. Anyone fortunate to make that many sales could hire a staff. I think that level of sales is a pipe dream, but it does happen. 218,000 sales, this guy must have a whole factory full of people. He manufactures most/all of his products. His stuff is top notch. www.etsy.com/shop/UnkamenSupplies?ref=listing-shop-header-item-count
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 12, 2016 14:31:25 GMT -5
Chuck, it would have to be a one or two photo listing with a repetitive description. A mass production process in itself. Totally agree with you. And done thru Etsy type hosting platform where shipping labels could be mass produced. Perhaps a girl Friday or two to help. Anyone fortunate to make that many sales could hire a staff. I think that level of sales is a pipe dream, but it does happen. 218,000 sales, this guy must have a whole factory full of people. He manufactures most/all of his products. His stuff is top notch. www.etsy.com/shop/UnkamenSupplies?ref=listing-shop-header-item-count click on his sold listings link. I went through the first couple pages and about 80 or 90 percent of those sales are not hand made items. even the jump rings say commercially made. www.etsy.com/shop/UnkamenSupplies/sold?page=1Chuck
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 12, 2016 14:34:13 GMT -5
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Post by rockpickerforever on Feb 12, 2016 14:43:58 GMT -5
I am not insinuating that I have talent for working rock or making jewelry, but I really suck at promoting and selling it. Hence why I have slowed to a standstill with it. These days, you have to be a computer/marketing wiz to understand how selling on the internet works.
If you don't know how to do it yourself, you end up paying someone else the big bucks to do it for you. When your profit margin is already pretty slim, you can't afford that kind of monthly outlay. Might as well be $3 million for 30 seconds of ad time during Super Bowl! There has got to be inexpensive adult/community college classes to learn this. Making a web site these days is easy, getting it out where people can see it is the real work! The small business association in San Diego puts on seminars now and again for free. Maybe I need to start paying attention? Naw, think I'll head to the beach today. (See? The curse of living in Paradise. You just cain;'t get anything done, lol.)
Kudos to you, James. I think you are on the right track. (That sucks about your competitor cheating like that. Wonder if there is a way to foul him up?)
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Post by radio on Feb 12, 2016 17:31:20 GMT -5
Chuck, it would have to be a one or two photo listing with a repetitive description. A mass production process in itself. Totally agree with you. And done thru Etsy type hosting platform where shipping labels could be mass produced. Perhaps a girl Friday or two to help. Anyone fortunate to make that many sales could hire a staff. I think that level of sales is a pipe dream, but it does happen. 218,000 sales, this guy must have a whole factory full of people. He manufactures most/all of his products. His stuff is top notch. www.etsy.com/shop/UnkamenSupplies?ref=listing-shop-header-item-count Everything I saw on there is manufactured in China I suspect. Any of you familiar with Alibaba.com? Thousands and thousands of items made in China available at incredibly cheap prices, but buyer beware! Some sellers have decent quality merchandise, but others are pure junk! The wife and I buy some packaging and supplies on there and have had both good and bad experiences.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 18:37:03 GMT -5
Alibaba is here to stay. They now have Aliexpress which has lower minimums. I have ordered from both and all went seamless. I have paid more for Unkamen supplies that he claimed were hand made and found fine quality. I would question any supply company these days. I would assume Rio buys from China too. I once ordered five one kilogram/100 meter rolls of copper and brass jewelry chain from Pandahall out of China. I took it to the Art Collective and the jewelers tested and studied it. Compared it to chain from reputable shops. It was concluded that about all jewelry chain is coming out of China/overseas. 4 out of 5 rolls were excellent chain. One roll was junk, but was very light weight chain by specification. Their description 'red copper color' is deceptive. You have to order it to find out if it is copper or coated. i am not sure they intend on being deceptive, as much as they use poor descriptions. when coated it was trash, when copper you got a bargain. Point being, if they are selling copper chain they should specify that it is copper and not coated zinc or 'alloy'. In this case, Pandahall was shooting itself in the foot for not giving clear specifications. www.pandahall.com/wholesale-chains/48.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=ppc_pc&utm_campaign=BingJewelryChainsI will say that Unkamen seems selective on his imports. That in itself requires a lot of research. And he has the ability to have samples sent and buy from many suppliers. I trust his judgement. It behoves him to keep his quality up. Drew conclusions that you are at the mercy of imports to a large degree. Proving it's origin is not so easy. I got so burned out on questionable materials that I started making jewelry out of vintage sliver plated serving ware and industrial base metals. I suppose there are standards for silver. Composition guaranteed(I hope).
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 19:25:15 GMT -5
I am not insinuating that I have talent for working rock or making jewelry, but I really suck at promoting and selling it. Hence why I have slowed to a standstill with it. These days, you have to be a computer/marketing wiz to understand how selling on the internet works. If you don't know how to do it yourself, you end up paying someone else the big bucks to do it for you. When your profit margin is already pretty slim, you can't afford that kind of monthly outlay. Might as well be $3 million for 30 seconds of ad time during Super Bowl! There has got to be inexpensive adult/community college classes to learn this. Making a web site these days is easy, getting it out where people can see it is the real work! The small business association in San Diego puts on seminars now and again for free. Maybe I need to start paying attention? Naw, think I'll head to the beach today. (See? The curse of living in Paradise. You just cain;'t get anything done, lol.) Kudos to you, James. I think you are on the right track. (That sucks about your competitor cheating like that. Wonder if there is a way to foul him up?) I have 2 competitors that make similar fire pits to mine. One of the two has full control of local search 'fire pit atlanta' and firepitsatlanta'. I am firepitsatlanta. They have used my name in their key word/title areas. If I was selling in a competitive market like jewelry magnify such by 100's. Dog eat dog world out there. I can probably solve this issue since I only have one or two competitors by optimizing my new web site. I guess it is a new game out there Jean. Have fun at the beach and beware of the great whites
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Post by radio on Feb 12, 2016 19:38:09 GMT -5
Rio's quality sucks on many items, including most sterling chains. I buy a pretty good amount of chains every year and have found that because a chain is marked "Italy" it is often not made in Italy! The Chinese easily mark their chains this way and small dealers, hobbyists and consumers are deceived thinking they are getting a quality chain. The Italians are the best chain makers in the world surpassing even most American companies in that field. A true Italian made chain is incredibly supple and doesn't kink, bind or scratch the wearer. I keep a couple of Chinese made chains on hand just to demonstrate the difference to customers and show what they are getting at Wal mart.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 12, 2016 20:21:04 GMT -5
Rio's quality sucks on many items, including most sterling chains. I buy a pretty good amount of chains every year and have found that because a chain is marked "Italy" it is often not made in Italy! The Chinese easily mark their chains this way and small dealers, hobbyists and consumers are deceived thinking they are getting a quality chain. The Italians are the best chain makers in the world surpassing even most American companies in that field. A true Italian made chain is incredibly supple and doesn't kink, bind or scratch the wearer. I keep a couple of Chinese made chains on hand just to demonstrate the difference to customers and show what they are getting at Wal mart. That answered a lot of questions I have had Arlen. Just the fact that they falsely label makes you despise them. Appreciate the chain education. The chain about has to be purchased. Cheap chain on fine handmade piece is awkward in all respects. I was happy when a shop owner asked me to hang from leather since my style was harmonious with it. Even the leather was hard to decide it's origin. I suppose they mark it kangaroo when they have no kangaroos. Greek leather is highly rated. But is that what you are buying ??
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