|
Post by captbob on Dec 18, 2007 13:50:11 GMT -5
Hello to you all. My name is Bob, I live in St. Pete Florida and drive a boat for a living - hence the user ID name. I recently found this site and have been reading (almost nonstop) for several days now. I still have a couple hundred pages of threads to go!
Maybe this should be in the Visitors forum, but I'd like to ask a couple questions and this seems to be the section with the most traffic. First, I'd like to say I love the site and appreciate the knowledge (and humor) you folks all share here. More pictures would be nice ;D
I am SERIOUSLY into rocks. I only caught the bug a few years back, but it seems to have become a lifelong affliction with no cure. I'm talkin' 55 gal barrels of rough from Brazil in my garage kinda crazy. I should do a picture thread in the proper forum someday.
On to my (first of many?) questions. I have yet to venture down the tumbling road and decided it's high time to get started. So...
Even after reading all I can find on the subject, I still have no idea just how loud tumblers are. I don't do anything on a small scale, so if I have several large tumblers running at once what kinda noise should I expect? Can it be compared to something? Is the noise I read about motor noise or simply from the tumbling action?
okay, this one may win the stupid question of the year award, but what holds the lid on a Lortone tumbler? I see the nut in the photos, but what is it tightening and do they wear out?
Lastly, (for THIS post as I have already exceeded my question quota) if you were going to have 10 or more large tumblers always running would you buy individual units or make a stand to run them all on and just buy the barrels?
If you made it this far, thank you for your time and any replies. Now, I have some more reading to do...
Best regards, Bob
|
|
rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
|
Post by rallyrocks on Dec 18, 2007 14:05:35 GMT -5
Hello and welcome aboard Captain!
Good questions, and no easy answers- how loud a tumbler is depends on a few factors- how big is big? larger barrels hold larger rocks that make more noise than smaller ones.
Generally speaking the coarse cycles are the loudest, after that you start adding plastic pellets that smooth out the sound considerably, but they still will be making noise.
And considering that you are talking about a small industrial sized operation, its probably safe to say you can expect a similar level of racket to that generated by a cloths washing machine or dryer, but constant rather than only for an hour or so- probably something you'll want to keep in a shed or basement at the least.
The mystery of lortone lids isn't too complicated once you see them in action, the lid itself is a two piece contraption, the inside portion is a flat round plate with the stud on one side and a rubber booty over the "inside" face and edge of plate itself The part you see when its assembled is a cover where the sides are slanted inward. The plate portion sits on a shelf in the barrel with the lip of the barrel extending up above the plate. When you put the cover over it, it folds the barrel lip over the top of the plate, so when you tighten the bolt on the stud it pinches the barrel lip between the plate and the cover, quite clever!
seriously looking at 10 barrels - I'd probably opt to keep them on the smaller size (yes there are 40 and 60lb barrels available, but they'd be quite a hassle to work with) id look at a couple racks of 10-12lbers, and yeah probably build up a frame to hold a few barrels at a time. Probably more than one though, a 10 barrel frame is going to be pretty huge, I'd do a couple of 3-4 up frames instead.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 14:13:03 GMT -5
Welcome captbob!
As far as noise............not sure what type of tumblers you plan on getting but rotaries are not as loud as vibrating tumblers. I am sitting in my living room right now and my two 6lb. Lortone barrels are tumbling in the dining room. I can hear them from here but its not LOUD. In fact, its just a part of the room now and we dont even notice it. If you are loading your tumbler right, they will not be crashing around.....as obviously you dont want that because then your stones fracutre. I describe it as kind of a rolling ocean kind of sound.
I just purchased a large multi 12 lb. barrel unit and a couple of small 3lb lortones plus the Lortone QT66 that I already have. I am getting ready to put them all on the floor in my hallway closet (that has no door and is used as bookshelves). Its right next to our bedroom and I antipate not having to use my fan anymore when I sleep as I will have my "rolling ocean" tumblers going non stop. One member Cina says she has hers in her room and cant sleep without them! I also have a vibe tumbler and the gosh darn thing drives me crazy with the noise so it stays in the garage.
As far as Lortone lids go........what you see on the outside isnt everything. The lortone barrels have a rubber inner lid that fits inside the barrel and rests on a lip. The outer lid compresses the barrel around the inner rubber lid and this creates a seal. The nut is what keeps it all tight.
Regarding tumbler sizes........I dont have a place to put one very large tumbler. I prefer to have many small ones so I can move them around in various places if need be. There is a link somewhere on here for a homemade LARGE tumbler that I think uses a 5 gallon bucket for a barrel. If you have lots of material that would be an option but I can only imagine the grit that one would eat!
Good luck and Im sure you will get plenty of replies.
Shannon
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Dec 18, 2007 14:23:51 GMT -5
Bob,
Welcome to the forum. The Lortone nut tightens a rubber lid and yes they do wear out. Rotary tumblers make a pleasant noise to me. Reminds me of the noise rocky beaches have when the waves roll rocks around. I wouldn't want one in my bedroom though. Vibrating tumblers (at least my mini-sonics) sound more like someone is running an engraving tool. You sound pretty serious. I wouldn't recommend Lortone for you. If you can build a multi-drum tumbler (or buy one) you would be better off. The best drums on the market are the 15lb. Thumler's Tumbler. They are metal with thick rubber liners and a lid that wingnuts on. The only drum I know of with a warranty (5 years on drum and liner). Multiple drums lets you run several stages at once. Covington makes some interesting tumblers with different drum size options and their stuff is always well made (they don't warranty their drums against wear however). I've also seen drums made out of large PVC pipe but I'm guessing they are noisier. I think something like 12-15 lb. drums would be about right. I had a 40lb. tumbler and sold it after a few batches because it mostly just took up space.
|
|
|
Post by bobby1 on Dec 18, 2007 14:57:42 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 40 lb unit (as well as some 10 lb ones) and they run pretty quietly, especially if I load them correctly. A drawback with the 40lb unit is when the barrel is full of rocks, grit and water it weighs somwhat more than 40lbs. It is really heavy to wrestle around. I wouldn't seriously consider anything larger than 40 lbs. A freind of mine built a 150 lb unit ant it was a real hassle to work with. He sold it after a few months. Bob
|
|
|
Post by docone31 on Dec 18, 2007 15:13:59 GMT -5
Hey neighbor! If you are in the area, stop in to USA Fleamarket in Port Richey. I can explain a lot and do some show and tell. We are Seventh Chapter Jewelery on 3rd ave there.
|
|
rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
|
Post by rockdewd on Dec 18, 2007 15:22:51 GMT -5
Here is a picture of my 36 pound tumbler. I can't take credit for the construction because it was acquired in a trade with a fellow rockhound who bought out a closed rock shop inventory. It uses Lortone 6 and 12 pound tumblers and is very quiet. But that's by lapidary shop standards but wouldn't make much noise if I brought it in the house. Yeah, like my wife's gonna let that happen. If you are interested I can provide dimensions, pulley size etc.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Dec 18, 2007 17:11:37 GMT -5
Hello and thank you all for the warm welcome and thoughtful replies. I think I understand how the Lortone lid works better now, although I may need to actually see one to get a 100% grasp on the concept. The noise factor doesn't seem to be as big a deal as I had worried it might be. Some threads I had read mentioned bothering the neighbors, but is sounds like that may be a slight exaggeration. The noise from a laundry machine is acceptable and if they actually sound like ocean waves, well then I'll feel like I'm at work! decone31: Do you sell jewelery at that flea market or do you have rough rocks and mineral specimens there? Is the market just open on weekends? rgcopeland: THAT'S what I'm takling about! Nice set up. Only, I was thing of making a multi tier stand. I'm not sure I would sleep well at night with the motor mounted under a barrel of liquid tho. I appreciate your offer on the help with the specs. and I just may take you up on that should I run into any problems. Has anyone seen this eBay listing? cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330198461536&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014I have it on my watch list, but I think I could do better and I know I'd rather have new barrels to start with. His shipping cost seems a bit optimistic. Does anyone see any problems with a 3/4 to 1 hp motor turning 100 pounds of barrels? I don't think that would be too much weight, but I haven't built one of these before. I had briefly considered making my own barrels, but logic screams at me that the shaped (sided) barrels would provide a better tumble than a round interior such as PVC. True or should I tell locic to shut the heck up? John, you mentioned a couple things I'd like to get into. First, the Thumler's 15#ers is exactly what I was looking at for coarse tumbling (altho I am still going to need one larger unit, thinking a 40#) . I love the wingnut design. But, why not the Lortone barrels for the smaller ones? For medium grits I can use Thumler's 9 or 12 pound barrels OR Lortone 6 or 12 pound barrels. Thoughts please. If I may ask ONE more (2 part) question, how do the lids compare between these 2 brands, and how are the Thumler's lids attached? I don't know why, but I am probably overly concerned about eventual leakage problems. I guess I've learned that my wife will continue to put up with my rock addiction as long as it doesn't affect her world, and a barrel blowout in the garage just might cross that line! Aside: I read, think in the Tips forum, that someone was going to be selling a 20" Highland Park saw soon. I believe that he is in Texas and sells on eBay. Don't remember if I bought from him before, but I thinks so. Anyway, I'm interested *hint hint* Well, thank you all again for your input, thoughts and advice, and kind welcome! Take care and be warned that I'll be back
|
|
|
Post by Bikerrandy on Dec 18, 2007 17:34:21 GMT -5
Quote from the Captain.... "more pics would be nice".... see, told ya! ;D Welcome to the board Bob!
|
|
snowdog
fully equipped rock polisher
RIP David Fildes, aka: snowdog
Member since January 2005
Posts: 1,527
|
Post by snowdog on Dec 18, 2007 17:38:38 GMT -5
sent you a "pm" --- look at the top of the page and "click " on messages------------
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Dec 18, 2007 17:50:10 GMT -5
Thumler's 9 lb. uses an o-ring type retaining ring they changed recently so it is easier to put on. The 12lb. drum uses a hose clamp. I'm probably unjustly prejudiced against Lortone, but I find their stuff too light-duty, aimed at hobby use rather than professional use. If you ever did any plumbing work Lortone lids work on the principal of the drain plugs that tighten by turning a nut in the center to expand the plug and seal the opening. If I was building a tumbler I think I would use all the same size drums (all 15lb. for instance) rather than a 15 for step 1, 12lb for step 2 etc. With multiple drums you can tumble 1st step until you have a full barrel for step 2 etc. I think I would buy a small tumbler and try tumbling a small batch or two before building a multi-tiered unit. Then if you really enjoy it and want to build the monster unit you would have the small unit for those small batches that seem to materialize.
|
|
Saskrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2007
Posts: 1,852
|
Post by Saskrock on Dec 18, 2007 18:02:59 GMT -5
I have a 25 pounder I built with a PVC barrel. It is defiantly loud. Sounds like a road grader going by. If you go that way you better have an unattached garage thats insulated to put it in. I also have a couple of 3lb rubber barrels that I run in the house. They are not all that loud
|
|
SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
|
Post by SirRoxalot on Dec 18, 2007 18:15:30 GMT -5
I just completed a machine that spins six of the 12 pound Lortone barrels. 1/3 horse motor working fine, construction was dead simple and only took a few afternoons.
I'd suggest getting yourself a couple of Lortones to start. They produce a lot of rock. Bear in mind that there's more to it than turning it on and letting it run, you've got to clean and sort every stone between every stage! The 12 pound Lortones are excellent machines, and mine have never leaked; start there so you know what you're getting into. Also remember that raw hammered agate can easily take 1 or more months just in coarse grind. Barrels with round interiors will grind the rough faster, but then you've got to moderate the speed somehow for softer stuff and the later stages.
SirRoxalot
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Dec 18, 2007 20:08:25 GMT -5
Whoa... stop the presses!
"Barrels with round interiors will grind the rough faster, "
Seriously? Can that be explained please? I was under the (incorrect?) assumption that the decagonal shape inside a tumbler aided the rocks in their climb of wall, leading to the tumbling action. And, that a round interior would allow the rock/slurry mixture to just slide and remain at the bottom of the barrel therefore not achieving the tumble necessary.
If a round interior grinds faster then why are the interiors of "store bought" tumbler barrels shaped as they are?
And thank you John, I now understand the Lortone lids!
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Dec 18, 2007 20:15:00 GMT -5
Sorry, I forgot to ask~
SirRoxalot: do you have pictures of your 6 barrel set-up? I would love to see some to compare to what I am planning. Thank you.
|
|
rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
|
Post by rockdewd on Dec 18, 2007 21:03:25 GMT -5
As long as you have a drip proof motor then there is no worries about leakage above the motor. I already had one blow out with a 6 pound tumbler right over the motor. I was more worried about the grit trashing the motor's bearings than the water. I still have a mess with tumbling grit and some stones on the other side of the tumble that I'm too lazy to move the crap out of the way to clean up. That was the first time I have ever had a Lortone barrel blow out and I attribute it to user error in not getting the knob tight enough.
Rick
|
|
|
Post by cpdad on Dec 18, 2007 21:40:34 GMT -5
this is just thunking off the top of my head ;D....but round barrels should give better grinding action....it provides a constant roll to the material inside the drum....where the decagonal shape inside of a barrel would kinda like throw it across the inside of the barrel.
it may not make any diff at all....i cant say for sure....specially if either is loaded properly ;D...i only use small 3lb round barrels ;D
things like brazillians are very stable....by no means would i run amythest in a hex..oct...or dec tumbler....hell i have a hard enough time getting some right in a round tumbler ;D...kev.
|
|
bouldergal
freely admits to licking rocks
Glacier Meadow
Member since July 2007
Posts: 783
|
Post by bouldergal on Dec 18, 2007 22:06:25 GMT -5
Welcome Bob, Join the group of Floridians who have to either travel to get rocks or order them! We are planning a Florida get together in the Tampa area in January. Check the Trips board and join us!!!! Susan
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Dec 18, 2007 22:14:57 GMT -5
Bob,
Everything I've read says stepped barrels speeds up tumbling time. Also the Highland Park 40 lb. tumbler I had was equipped with the original 1/3 hp motor, and the 65 lb. uses the same. One thing you'll find on this site is everyone does things a little different but everyone seems to get good results. Tumbling is not rocket science. You will have the "Captain Bob" method in no time.
|
|
|
Post by docone31 on Dec 18, 2007 22:26:03 GMT -5
There are a lot of schools on stepped, or unstepped barrels. Personally, I prefer unstepped barrels for stones, and stepped for jewelery polish, or mass finishing. A lot depends on speed. Too much speed, and stepped barrels will jump the stones. When I polish jewelery, especially after casting, I like the jump. It speeds up sharding the investment. I have had "fragile" stones star and get surface cracks with stepped barrels. Emeralds are the first that come to mind. Not only are they starred from the blasting, the tumbler adds to it. I find the sound of tumblers soothing. Not the vibes. I use that noise to get people into my booth. I have to turn up my sound system to cover the vibes so no one has reason to make me turn it down. I like Ozzy audible, not background. The market we are in is open three days a week. I wish it was more, but it suffices. I used to have time to do lapidary there. I used to cut my gems, cabs, etc. I no longer have the time with all the repairing I do. I am working 7 days a week, with a three day business. I have modified my home to be a workshop. We sleep on the floor. Someday, stop in and say hi. It is always nice to meet one of us.
|
|