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Post by MrMike on Nov 7, 2016 20:02:17 GMT -5
MrMike Well done on the qualitative viscosity test easily done at home. Well done. Note to self, pay attention to Mike's methods and procedures.... 👍👍 Thanks Scott. Don't have a lot to show for my efforts though. Still working out the bugs in my homemade tumbler & vibe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 20:13:29 GMT -5
MrMike Well done on the qualitative viscosity test easily done at home. Well done. Note to self, pay attention to Mike's methods and procedures.... 👍👍 Thanks Scott. Don't have a lot to show for my efforts though. Still working out the bugs in my homemade tumbler & vibe. I will pick and choose what I reap!! Haha Good luck with it. I am about to embark on a vibe build myself.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 7, 2016 20:23:02 GMT -5
How long were they running at 30? Paul Thanks Paul. From my notes, they started on Sept 27 Sept 27 start Oct 1 add grit Oct 3 add grit Oct 7 pulled big Rio added grit + added Stone Canyon Oct 14 add grit Texas trip happened - load ran 15 days, way too long, without new grit Oct 29 add grit + 2 Zapata Rio agates Nov 5 add grit No clean outs yet, just checking on progress and adding grit. Still have a thin slurry after adding all that grit! Always 30 grit and either a cup or 1 1/2 cup each time. Will switch to finer 60/90 grit sometime this week. And (hopefully) rapidly progress through the grits to polish. Now THAT is patience and dedication. Beautiful stuff!
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 7, 2016 20:31:07 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 8, 2016 8:41:28 GMT -5
I must mention my present set and 30 grit usage using colloidal clay slurry as it has been consistently a fast grind.
55 RPM or 30 RPM running tough rocks like river beaten Rio's and tough coral of substantial size in 6 inch PVC holding 7-8 pounds each. One cup of clay that is run for 2 or 3 days, then cleaned out. Slurry does get less effective and needs refreshing. 2/3 cup SiC 30 added every day. Because after 24 hours it is reduced to less than 200 grit and is too fine to coarse grind.
That's it in a nutshell. High grit and clay usage rates. Coincides with fast grind rates. Thats is about 5 cups of grit per barrel every 7 days for 7 pounds rock. If the grit is breaking down that fast then it needs to be refreshed daily. That is the best way. It is the slurry and the slurry alone that is allowing these fast grind rates. Been running four 6 inch PVC barrels for 4 years, so am experienced at judging the grind rates and grit break down. over and over
So, in my pea brain I ask myself is one day = one week per coarse grit change ? Does that mean that 7 days = 7 weeks if 30 grit is breaking down every 24 hours ? I think the answer is yes. The rocks appear worn as if run 7 weeks with one grit change per week. It is work hassling with barrels daily though. Not for everyone. I did go to smaller barrels so the handling was easier. And the PVC rubber end caps are quick to remove and replace. I use a nut driver to remove the band clamp. I have a 20 gallon barrel that catches all the clean outs that a screener sits on top of. By the next day the slurry has settled to the bottom and the top layer is clean water that can be scooped with a half gallon scoop and reused. Or I pour the top layer of clean water off onto gravel floor.
At the present moment I carefully collected a big pile of tumble targeted Rio's and am anxious to get them processed. Am motivated, will deal with the extra daily effort. Will spend more on rapid grit usage. It is my primary hobby and consider the costs my fun in life and fully justified.
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Nov 8, 2016 9:23:13 GMT -5
I must mention my present set and 30 grit usage using colloidal clay slurry as it has been consistently a fast grind. 55 RPM or 30 RPM running tough rocks like river beaten Rio's and tough coral of substantial size in 6 inch PVC holding 7-8 pounds each. One cup of clay that is run for 2 or 3 days, then cleaned out. Slurry does get less effective and needs refreshing. 2/3 cup SiC 30 added every day. Because after 24 hours it is reduced to less than 200 grit and is too fine to coarse grind. That's it in a nutshell. High grit and clay usage rates. Coincides with fast grind rates. Thats is about 5 cups of grit per barrel every 7 days for 7 pounds rock. If the grit is breaking down that fast then it needs to be refreshed daily. That is the best way. It is the slurry and the slurry alone that is allowing these fast grind rates. Been running four 6 inch PVC barrels for 4 years, so am experienced at judging the grind rates and grit break down. over and over So, in my pea brain I ask myself is one day = one week per coarse grit change ? Does that mean that 7 days = 7 weeks if 30 grit is breaking down every 24 hours ? I think the answer is yes. The rocks appear worn as if run 7 weeks with one grit change per week. It is work hassling with barrels daily though. Not for everyone. I did go to smaller barrels so the handling was easier. And the PVC rubber end caps are quick to remove and replace. I use a nut driver to remove the band clamp. I have a 20 gallon barrel that catches all the clean outs that a screener sits on top of. By the next day the slurry has settled to the bottom and the top layer is clean water that can be scooped with a half gallon scoop and reused. Or I pour the top layer of clean water off onto gravel floor. At the present moment I carefully collected a big pile of tumble targeted Rio's and am anxious to get them processed. Am motivated, will deal with the extra daily effort. Will spend more on rapid grit usage. It is my primary hobby and consider the costs my fun in life and fully justified. Interesting read, thanks for posting it. I was curious, how can you tell when the clay has broken down and needs replacing? What are the signs of depleted clay?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 8, 2016 9:42:11 GMT -5
I must mention my present set and 30 grit usage using colloidal clay slurry as it has been consistently a fast grind. 55 RPM or 30 RPM running tough rocks like river beaten Rio's and tough coral of substantial size in 6 inch PVC holding 7-8 pounds each. One cup of clay that is run for 2 or 3 days, then cleaned out. Slurry does get less effective and needs refreshing. 2/3 cup SiC 30 added every day. Because after 24 hours it is reduced to less than 200 grit and is too fine to coarse grind. That's it in a nutshell. High grit and clay usage rates. Coincides with fast grind rates. Thats is about 5 cups of grit per barrel every 7 days for 7 pounds rock. If the grit is breaking down that fast then it needs to be refreshed daily. That is the best way. It is the slurry and the slurry alone that is allowing these fast grind rates. Been running four 6 inch PVC barrels for 4 years, so am experienced at judging the grind rates and grit break down. over and over So, in my pea brain I ask myself is one day = one week per coarse grit change ? Does that mean that 7 days = 7 weeks if 30 grit is breaking down every 24 hours ? I think the answer is yes. The rocks appear worn as if run 7 weeks with one grit change per week. It is work hassling with barrels daily though. Not for everyone. I did go to smaller barrels so the handling was easier. And the PVC rubber end caps are quick to remove and replace. I use a nut driver to remove the band clamp. I have a 20 gallon barrel that catches all the clean outs that a screener sits on top of. By the next day the slurry has settled to the bottom and the top layer is clean water that can be scooped with a half gallon scoop and reused. Or I pour the top layer of clean water off onto gravel floor. At the present moment I carefully collected a big pile of tumble targeted Rio's and am anxious to get them processed. Am motivated, will deal with the extra daily effort. Will spend more on rapid grit usage. It is my primary hobby and consider the costs my fun in life and fully justified. Interesting read, thanks for posting it. I was curious, how can you tell when the clay has broken down and needs replacing? What are the signs of depleted clay? In my case a change from red clay color to a grey color. Also getting too thick. Pouring off and thinning with water helps to a point. A change from a silky latex paint texture to a less glossy reflection, that is main warning. The grey color is simply rock particles staining the original red clay slurry color. This clay is colloidal, meaning it is composed of tiny platelets that 'float' much better than tiny round particles. After 2-3 days I am certain the colloidal particles are breaking down and losing their ability to float solids like grit. So the refresh. The rivers in central Georgia are cursed by colloidal clay. Silt build up is our #1 problem in unhealthy riverine systems from clay run off. The river can carry extreme tonnages of colloidal clay particles. The particles settle in the flood plains and coat/choke out plant life, cover gravel bars with mud, build up on river banks. Rivers remain muddy and have stained water for long periods of time after a flood. Unlike a sandy river say in Florida for instance,
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Nov 8, 2016 10:21:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation. So it sounds like degradation of clay performance is likely from two factors. Dilution by eroded rock particles which are different in nature from the clay particles and breakdown of clay particles.
It would be interesting to look at the slurry under a microscope to see what all is going on.
I wish I had enough equipment to do some testing to try to determine optimal clay loading and longevity. I also really want to do the same type of test with grit concentration.
Hopefully someday.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 8, 2016 10:29:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation. So it sounds like degradation of clay performance is likely from two factors. Dilution by eroded rock particles which are different in nature from the clay particles and breakdown of clay particles. It would be interesting to look at the slurry under a microscope to see what all is going on. I wish I had enough equipment to do some testing to try to determine optimal clay loading and longevity. I also really want to do the same type of test with grit concentration. Hopefully someday. This is what kaolin colloids look like under magnification. From images. They are called 'books'. I believe they are felspar crystals delaminating. Yes, tumbling action will crack them up. Master grit carriers. And very slick for lubrication. Probably best to change them out everyday when adding grit.
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Post by captbob on Nov 21, 2016 14:57:04 GMT -5
Not much to report on the first Rio agate load. It's coming along and ready to go to a finer grit when I get around to it - hopefully this week. Smalls from Mel Sabre52one of the bigger Zapata Rios - gonna be a killer tumble when finished the chunk of Stone Canyon in with these Have another barrel running with Stone Canyon pieces and one Zapata found rock the Zapata rock Purpose of the post is I started another barrel of larger Rio agates found on our Zapata trip. bigger pieces and 30 grit - off and running will update
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Post by captbob on Nov 29, 2016 21:39:03 GMT -5
Time for a quick update - Not gonna post any of the first barrel of Rios I have running because the new pictures aren't that much different from earlier ones that I have posted. That barrel of rocks is coming along nicely and did move on to 120/220 grit. okay... just one 'cuz I really like this rock! Here are some photos of the new batch that I started last week - last two photos in post above. I love these rocks that the Rio Grande did the rough grinding for me! group shot, all that is in the barrel - 7 day run for all these rocks. Thanks Mother Nature for doing all the work for me! here are some of the rocks one by one - one side other side 'nuther 'nuther 'nuther different angle green 'un 'nuther same as above top - or bottom - whatever 'nuther - interesting mix of stuff going on here one end of the above rock (top in above picture) couple more couple more That's it for now. Be back with more someday. ETA: this second batch went back for another run with 30 grit.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 29, 2016 22:30:06 GMT -5
Those are some cool looking rocks. Can't wait to see them finished,
What do you do about the deep holes? Those bug me, so I usually cut the rock through the hole. I should probably jus t clean them out really well and not let them bother me,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 0:36:35 GMT -5
Yes. That is a whole pile of awesome!!
Nice Bob! Nice!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2016 5:46:14 GMT -5
You have a great collecting eye Bob. Those open plumes and mosses are the trophies of the Rio. Morsels. And big enough to saw them for cabs at a later date if you wanted to. Some serious sphere stock too.
Had some tiny bruises on one type of wood rolling bigger rocks. None on the mosses. Moss good tumbling rock.
Time to make another haul.
Opened 6 of 21 LFRB boxes. No telling what is in them.
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Post by orrum on Nov 30, 2016 7:32:41 GMT -5
Those nuthers are the finest bestest I have seen!##
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 30, 2016 8:25:10 GMT -5
All this talk of Rio Agate and all the pictures of same have convinced me to make a run down to the Falcon/Zapata area. I will wait until after Jan 31st and the end of Deer Season. It's only a 6 hour drive for me. Just not crazy about being out by myself anywhere, especially along the Tex/Mex Border.
H
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2016 8:59:52 GMT -5
Opened 6 of 21 LFRB boxes. No telling what is in them. You haven't opened the boxes you mailed home yet?! All the rocks that you have been posting pictures of have been just what you hauled home with you?
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2016 9:01:14 GMT -5
Hank, I'm thinking that once Trump is in office, the border is gonna be a WHOLE LOT more secure. In a quickness!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,179
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Post by jamesp on Nov 30, 2016 9:12:03 GMT -5
Pretty much. Opened 6 of 21 boxes. And pretty much stashed the mosses in buckets. Mostly fooling w/wood and jasper. Each box opened is like a new treasure hunt.
Rocks from the 12 day trip 3 years ago lasted 3 years tumbling a bunch of barrels. Our collection areas this trip yielded way better and bigger rocks. Those you collected were way beyond the quality and size of those from Fernando's and adjacent ranches. We hit great spots.
I went back over your point with the drop off and you cleaned it very well. I was learning wood and jasper, those you must have skipped over. They are a challenge, moss easier to see. The quarry with the broken gate, you cleaned it out too. Not much left.
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Post by captbob on Nov 30, 2016 9:21:40 GMT -5
The quarry with the broken gate was the back door to the quarry behind the locked gates - must revisit to poach there. Just gonna be a looong way to carry rocks back!
That area (my best spot) at the bottom of the hill I hated walking back up with a full bucket must also be hit again. I got the obvious, but was not interested in wood. (where the bee hive was)
Then there is the spot we have talked about which neither of us made it to... thinking that area alone is worth a 20+ hour drive.
15 boxes still sealed up!! *sigh*
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