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Post by TheRock on Oct 18, 2017 20:23:04 GMT -5
There seems to be a pretty wide range of Prices on hand tools at Rio Grande and other places like Amazon I have looked at. I cant believe a small set of NEEDLE D*ck pliers costing $150 to 170 buckaroos a set is going to make something better than say a $35.00 set of pliers. Iv'e used CRAPMAN tools my whole life and I can't swear that Snap On is really going to do a job better. Yes the warranty is GREAT but common I can buy 5 or 6 replacements compared to an expensive brand. And how about a Work Bench for $4329.00 -vs- the $399.00 Jobbie. Now listen if I had captbob 's Money I wouldn't even bat an eYe I would go for broke! Seriously now I just can't believe the difference in the prices of some of this stuff. 1) So my first question is there really that much difference in a $170.00 tool set of pliers and a 35.00 to 40.00 dollar set? 2) what tools are needed to start out with and maybe leaning twords the deluxe end. Thanks ~Duke
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 18, 2017 21:20:16 GMT -5
You get what you pay for. I have always used swanstrom and I like them a lot. They are well built, reliable and you can send them back to have them reconditioned if need be. If you do a lot of work with your tools, it will pay to have good ones. The joints are made better, the steel is better, the ergonomics are better, they are MUCH more durable. I have had the same swanstroms for almost 20 years. HOWEVER, I do NOT recommend their cutters. I have some cheap tools that fill in specialty needs. If it is something that you won't use all the time- get cheap- who cares.
eta- The first set I got were the German made Rio line. I don't know if they still have them. They were good, but I like the swanstroms better. I still have those German ones- a couple of them fill in some gaps.
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Post by Pat on Oct 18, 2017 22:47:10 GMT -5
Depends. If you are going to use pliers for repetitive work, Get the good ones. Swanstrom makes long handled pliers. This is a lot more comfortable than the more common length. Hand doesn’t tire so quickly.
Same with other hand tools.
Decent desks are a lot cheaper elsewhere.
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kskid
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Member since July 2014
Posts: 98
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Post by kskid on Oct 19, 2017 0:54:50 GMT -5
One other thing that I believe factors into your first question is your individual personality. I have friends who aren't bothered in the least when a tool slips off of a workpiece three times as they're using it, or when the tool breaks and they have to either (mis)use another tool or stop work to get a replacement. They roll on and buy another replacement during next month's visit to HF. Personally, I find either of those events so frustrating that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the hobby. I tease them about being cheap, and they tease me about being obsessive/compulsive (guilty!). As to the work benches, I'd expect the high end stuff to have forged brass/copper/stainless pulls vs. pot metal, soft/self closing hardware and steel ball bearing drawer glides vs. box hinges and sliding drawers, solid hardwood panels with mortise and tenon joinery vs. particle board and screws. Both are fully functional when new. One will still be fully functional when your next of kin inherits or sells it; the other will go into the dumpster. Over the years I've settled on one hobby that brings me so much pleasure that I don't want to ruin the experience by using low grade stuff. I'm not being judgmental - I'll never be able to afford a $4K work bench, but I do get a satisfaction of sorts out of daydreaming about the really good stuff, shopping around for something I can afford that's good (enough) quality, saving up for awhile to get it, and finally bringing it home and using it. Sometimes I wish I could be like my friends, but I know I'm not. I know from experience that if I bought the cheapest work bench, one day I'd drag it from one side of the room to the other and snap the side off of it. My whole day would be ruined; my friends would put a brick under it and keep going. So here's how I decide what grade of item I can afford: Will I sting the day (or week) that I finally write the check and smile every time I use it, or will I smile the day I write the check and sting every time I use it? Hobbies are recess for grown ups.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 19, 2017 10:05:43 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 19, 2017 11:12:04 GMT -5
I have a friend who did something similar with an old desk. She is constantly modding it to suit her. It's been great for her.
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Post by TheRock on Oct 19, 2017 13:31:57 GMT -5
Thanks hummingbirdstones It all depends what I can find when I start this shop project. When I get going I Fly by the seat of my pants. I have one question tho. At your desks do you sit down or do you stand up. When you Cab do you sit down or stand up? Same for cutting that one I would probably say stand. At least from what I have seen on video's. Thanks ~Duke
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Post by TheRock on Oct 19, 2017 13:42:00 GMT -5
rockjunquie and Pat what would you suggest I start out getting then? I would lean twords listing a complete kit. I plan to be doing the FULL MONTY necklaces, pins, earrings, pins, bracelets, just about everything. A good shopping list would get me something to work twords. Thanks ~Duke
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 19, 2017 13:53:04 GMT -5
rockjunquie and Pat what would you suggest I start out getting then? I would lean twords listing a complete kit. I plan to be doing the FULL MONTY necklaces, pins, earrings, pins, bracelets, just about everything. A good shopping list would get me something to work twords. Thanks ~Duke If you are referring to wire wrapping- I would get swanstroms pliers set, a good flush cutter- doesn't have to be expensive these are really good- I've burned through a few pairs. Get some bailing pliers, a few sizes, wubbers brand or cheapie Mazbot You won't use them all the time so you needn't pay a lot. I use a pinvise a lot. I also use a variety of flat nose pliers rather than a chain nose. I have many different sizes. A ring mandrel. Something the right size for a bracelet mandrel or buy one. Other than that- you don't need a whole lot. You'll pick up things as you need them and improvise a lot. For instance, I use Popsicle sticks a lot and a small, dull, thin bladed knife.
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zekesman
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Member since May 2016
Posts: 637
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Post by zekesman on Oct 19, 2017 16:02:17 GMT -5
rockjunquie and Pat what would you suggest I start out getting then? I would lean twords listing a complete kit. I plan to be doing the FULL MONTY necklaces, pins, earrings, pins, bracelets, just about everything. A good shopping list would get me something to work twords. Thanks ~Duke One thing I think about and live by. If you have a set of cheap pliers you can make something. If you are saving up for a nice set you can make nothing. You can upgrade latter. I use this idea in all my hobbies. Some fizzle out without upgrades. Some I will never be able to afford, like a 500mm f4 is Canon prime lense. Vic
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Don
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He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Oct 19, 2017 16:09:28 GMT -5
I don't have a fancy bench, just a standard workbench you'd see in any garage. I've cut out a slot for a bench vice and pop it in when I need it. I generally use all economy hand tools, most are second hand. I save the money for the good quality bench shear, rolling mill, torch, precision mandrels, safety equipment and materials.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 19, 2017 16:44:50 GMT -5
Old wood desks are pretty easy to find at garage or estate sales, or even offices that are going out of business for cheap. I use an old cheapie computer desk at the moment, but I have an oak one in our saw shop that's going to be my Frankendesk eventually after hubby cleans off all the stuff he's storing on and under it and we have time to do it. I generally sit to cab and make jewelry, although I will stand if I'm soldering. Vince (hubby) does the slabbing most of the time and he stands to do that. As for tools, you already have gotten some really good advice. I am a tool junkie, so i have crappy tools and really good tools. I will spring for quality tools when I know I will be using them a lot. Most current purchase was a Fretz planishing hammer.
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Post by TheRock on Oct 19, 2017 17:15:02 GMT -5
rockjunquie and Pat what would you suggest I start out getting then? I would lean twords listing a complete kit. I plan to be doing the FULL MONTY necklaces, pins, earrings, pins, bracelets, just about everything. A good shopping list would get me something to work twords. Thanks ~Duke One thing I think about and live by. If you have a set of cheap pliers you can make something. If you are saving up for a nice set you can make nothing. You can upgrade latter. I use this idea in all my hobbies. Some fizzle out without upgrades. Some I will never be able to afford, like a 500mm f4 is Canon prime lense. Vic Thanks everyone rockjunquie I found a link on Youtube Some gal that has a pretty Nice Setup but she is using JETHRO BODIEEN TOOLS off some site sold in the UK Looks like a pretty complete set >>>>> www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/University-Student-Jewellery-Tool--Kit-prcode-997-1005 I Thought I would just use it as a list of what to get what do you think? That desk she is using is pretty neat. ~Duke
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Post by Pat on Oct 19, 2017 17:39:26 GMT -5
Let's see:
OUTSIDE 1- for metalsmithing, I sit most of the time. My swivel chair is like a bar stool with the foot ring around the bottom. It's upholstered and with a back
2-for cabbing, I stand on a soft mat most of the time. Sometimes I sit on a stool that has a foot rest.
3- for using trim saw, I always stand --- on the mat. My workshop floor is cement, and cold in the winter.
INSIDE 4-stringing beads, setting stones, knotting pearls --- all this is inside in a comfy swivel chair
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Post by Pat on Oct 19, 2017 17:45:08 GMT -5
rockjunquie and Pat what would you suggest I start out getting then? I would lean twords listing a complete kit. I plan to be doing the FULL MONTY necklaces, pins, earrings, pins, bracelets, just about everything. A good shopping list would get me something to work twords. Thanks ~Duke HARD to go full monty ahead when you don't know how to do anything yet!! All those items you mentioned above can be done by several techniques. Take earrings for example: I've made them by stone setting, metalsmithing, cabbing, chain techniques... For each technique, you need a handful of tools. There is some overlap. Pick a tempting technique, and go from there, then ask the question.
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Post by toiv0 on Oct 19, 2017 18:46:53 GMT -5
I have all qualities of pliers, swanstrom are my go to. Good files are a must in my opinion. When I first started smithing I didn't have a Foredom (before the fordom I had a harbor freight which I still use) so I filed everything. A good saw I have a knew saw which is cool, I have one of the first ones even though sturdy kind of chinsy. The go to saw is from greenlion, my favorite. You have to remember the cheaper tools are cheaper steel, any marks on your tools transfer to your work. If I am have mental block I dress up my tools with the foredom. I have started using the 3m bristle discs and they work good. My next purchase is going to be a quick tach foredom hand piece.
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Post by TheRock on Oct 19, 2017 19:33:37 GMT -5
Now while we are talking tools do any of you have one of these? If there is one thing I wont have to learn to do is Solder either silver braze or soft solder and as far as Welding I can do that too aluminum stainless cast iron or steel I've done it all. Many people swear I was born with a torch in my hand Being an HVAC Contractor for 35 years I guess ya get good at it. I have the tanks and regulators I just need the little kit just wondered if you guys use them? Thank Duke
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Post by radio on Oct 19, 2017 19:37:54 GMT -5
Yes, the Swanstroms are worth the outlay! so worth it in fact that I have two sets, one at my home bench and one at the retail shop bench. when I started 20 odd years ago, I bought Harbor freight, Craftsman and others, but most wear quickly under constant use requiring frequent replacement, are not ergonomic and are not purpose designed like Swanstroms. Cheap tools can, and will work, but if you plan on any amount of production, the better quality will make the task easier and with less swearing :-)
Benches can be made from most anything. Mine at the retail shop is a heavy duty garage workbench with a inch and 3/4 hard maple butcher block top resting on 3 inch hollow steel legs and frame. Harbor freight has some decent workbenches for $80 to $130 or so. At one time I had a dandy bench with the cutout for the benchpin and lots of drawers and such. I soon figured out I needed more flat work space and less frilly storage compartments taking up valuable work space. For tool storage, I use a mechanics roll around with lockable drawers. For silver storage, I have another roll around with taller bottom drawers to keep metals organized and locked away
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Post by radio on Oct 19, 2017 19:40:44 GMT -5
Now while we are talking tools do any of you have one of these? If there is one thing I wont have to learn to do is Solder either silver braze or soft solder and as far as Welding I can do that too aluminum stainless cast iron or steel I've done it all. Many people swear I was born with a torch in my hand Being an HVAC Contractor for 35 years I guess ya get good at it. I have the tanks and regulators I just need the little kit just wondered if you guys use them? Thank Duke I have one Smith little torch setup and another generic set much like the smith. I prefer the smith over the generic simply because it is lighter and more ergonomic than the generic torch. Do get a selection of tips whichever way you go.
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Post by Pat on Oct 19, 2017 19:47:09 GMT -5
There’s a difference between soft soldering and hard soldering.
Jewelry uses hard soldering. I use mostly a butane mini torch. Bigger pieces require a bigger torch, so I have a simple propane torch.
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