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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jan 4, 2018 21:36:48 GMT -5
My take is if he's making a living off of doing it, it's a business, not casual rock hounding/hobby. Does he pay taxes on the sales he makes? If he doesn't, then it's illegal.
is he stealing? Maybe, from the people of the state.
Is it illegal? Maybe.
Do I care? No.
My question is why hasn't he filed claims on these deposits? Then he can take as much as he wants and it's legal.
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 4, 2018 21:50:01 GMT -5
My thoughts are mind over matter. If you don't mind it don't matter. I had a friend who always said I don't condone wife beating but I understand it. I have been robbed at gun point 3 times when I managed convience stores, I have had my house broken into 2 times. Really can't stand theives, but then again like white lies, no harm no foul. The government steals from us every day, death by 1000 cuts. Federal taxes, state taxes, state and local sales tax. I would not buy from the guy if I had knowledge of ill gotten material. I would pick up an arrow head or old coin if I ran across it in the desert.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,456
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 4, 2018 22:50:40 GMT -5
I was told by a range, anything over a day pack full of rock is too much but lets face it when someone finds a good deposit they hit it pretty hard and now that there are venues foe easy sales, some folks really clean areas out....Mel
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jan 4, 2018 22:51:07 GMT -5
I had a friend who always said I don't condone wife beating but I understand it. I have been robbed at gun point 3 times when I managed convience stores, I have had my house broken into 2 times. Really can't stand theives, but then again like white lies, no harm no foul. I don't understand any part of this. "No harm"? All of the above does harm to someone.
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ADHD
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2017
Posts: 12
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Post by ADHD on Jan 4, 2018 23:25:09 GMT -5
I guess the real questions are 1. Do you play by the rules? 2. Do you knowingly buy from people who don’t play by the rules? 3. If you think the rules are wrong have you done anything to protest or do object to them?
There is plenty of good material out there for the picking even playing by the rules. So is the guy not playing by the rules lazy? Ripping the rest of us off? Cheating? Making an extra buck because we played by the rules so he didn’t have to.
It’s Karma dude.
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Post by youp50 on Jan 5, 2018 0:05:16 GMT -5
And all of these reasons are why I like ethics questions.
Nano offense, unless its you are being stolen feom. 250 pounds out of your rock pile would get a rise.
Please do not think I am without blame here. I have hounded glacial till pits on Federal land and I have no problem pinching dead trees from the Fed. But my neighbor aggravates me to no end when he cuts fire wood on my land.
The trouble with ethics is we have blurred right and wrong.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 5, 2018 1:32:11 GMT -5
I personally know more than one person with an "un-claim". Their reasoning: Claims are filed with the BLM or Forest service. Once processed the location of the claim can be looked up by anyone with a computer or smart phone, and found with the GPS on your phone. There are private FB groups dedicated to "field trips" to these claims when the owner is gone. If the claim jumpers are hurt the claim owner may have to pay for their medical care due to his "negligence". BLM may assess a fine for unallowed mining practices and take your bond.
If I were ever to find something worthy of a claim I would claim it after I had dug up all I wanted, and sell whatever was left of the claim as quickly as possible.
Was it ever "ethical" for government to tell us we couldn't hunt (rocks) in the kings forest?
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 5, 2018 2:52:43 GMT -5
I had a friend who always said I don't condone wife beating but I understand it. I have been robbed at gun point 3 times when I managed convience stores, I have had my house broken into 2 times. Really can't stand theives, but then again like white lies, no harm no foul. I don't understand any part of this. "No harm"? All of the above does harm to someone. I agree but the no harm and no foul was meant for the white lie, which is usually told to protect the person being told from something... there is a Santa, there is a tooth fairy.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 5, 2018 9:02:59 GMT -5
20,000 years ago the "First Americans" took what they wanted. Was that illegal?
I know of the forest service using their helicopters to haul the high rollers into special places to harvest trophy animals. Must be legal because "jam don't shake like that."
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 5, 2018 9:56:13 GMT -5
Great thread. To be exact, he is breaking the law. We can argue about the actual laws all we want. If everyone thought that the laws were breakable, it wouldn't be long before everything was dug up and gone. And, then, of course, it would be the law abiding who got the wrong end of the stick- as usual. There are victims. They would be paying out the nose for rocks that were there for their taking. Maybe they can't hound them themselves, but the rocks should be there if they want to and not dug up some one greedier and less law abiding. This person could do it legally and still make some hobby money (up to 20k a year), but that's not what he is doing.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 5, 2018 10:57:46 GMT -5
Do the people (multi - committees) making the laws have any idea what they are doing?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 11:44:09 GMT -5
My take is if he's making a living off of doing it, it's a business, not casual rock hounding/hobby. Does he pay taxes on the sales he makes? If he doesn't, then it's illegal. is he stealing? Maybe, from the people of the state. Is it illegal? Maybe. Do I care? No. My question is why hasn't he filed claims on these deposits? Then he can take as much as he wants and it's legal. Makes a secret deposit public record. It's a trade secret until claimed. Then anyone can know where to go.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 5, 2018 11:53:55 GMT -5
My take is if he's making a living off of doing it, it's a business, not casual rock hounding/hobby. Does he pay taxes on the sales he makes? If he doesn't, then it's illegal. is he stealing? Maybe, from the people of the state. Is it illegal? Maybe. Do I care? No. My question is why hasn't he filed claims on these deposits? Then he can take as much as he wants and it's legal. Makes a secret deposit public record. It's a trade secret until claimed. Then anyone can know where to go. I don't have a dog in this fight, but just to be the devil's advocate.... If he is on public land, then it's not a trade secret. The point of the laws is so that anyone CAN go there. Right?
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 5, 2018 12:04:44 GMT -5
Makes a secret deposit public record. It's a trade secret until claimed. Then anyone can know where to go. I don't have a dog in this fight, but just to be the devil's advocate.... If he is on public land, then it's not a trade secret. The point of the laws is so that anyone CAN go there. Right? Aha, but the point of staking a claim is to protect it from claim jumpers. Technically, yes, anyone can go there. BUT, like a gold claim, the resources are off limits to any but the claim holder. You can look, but you can't touch.
Now how many people do you think abide by that law? By staking a claim, you are dooming the spot to be picked clean. Do it yourself first, then make the claim.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 5, 2018 12:07:06 GMT -5
Do the people (multi - committees) making the laws have any idea what they are doing? Unfortunately, no. Why should it be any different than any of the other laws made?
What they need are smarter people making the laws. They get input, then make laws that get enforced. If they are not going to be enforced, then they are just spinning their wheels, and wasting our tax dollars.
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:58:42 GMT -5
Makes a secret deposit public record. It's a trade secret until claimed. Then anyone can know where to go. I don't have a dog in this fight, but just to be the devil's advocate.... If he is on public land, then it's not a trade secret. The point of the laws is so that anyone CAN go there. Right? Yep. Where ya gonna go? Level playing field. He found it. You didn't, yet. Fair game if you find it. Until then: It's his secret, so he can trade on the goods. Trade secret.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jan 5, 2018 21:31:34 GMT -5
Makes sense and I can understand that. I would be honked off if I had a claim and some jerk cleaned it out on me.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 5, 2018 21:42:32 GMT -5
When the "belly loaders" and dump trucks show up we are all in trouble.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 22:56:46 GMT -5
Ever cut Howardite?
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 5, 2018 23:21:09 GMT -5
No, but I'd like that to change...
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