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Post by gmitch067 on Jan 13, 2018 11:15:04 GMT -5
This is a question for tumbling using a Rotary of Vibe tumbler - only…
What is YOUR first Go-To polish?
Mohs 6-8 (Agates/Jaspers/Quartz, etc…):
Mohs 4-5 (Turquoise, Sodalite, Opals, etc…):
Mohs 2-3 (Calcite, Chrysocolla, etc…):
Special category…
Rocks with different material of different hardness – layers – prone to undercutting:
Mohs 4-5 mixed with Mohs 6-8 (Tiger Eye, Jaspers, Gabbro, etc…):
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 13, 2018 11:27:48 GMT -5
I use aluminum oxide for everything. I almost always use the Rock Shed’s polish, but I did buy some of johnjsgems polish for tumbling contests. I came in first and second the last two years, so it must be pretty good stuff. I do mostly harder rocks, but also do Petoskey stones with AO polish.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2018 13:33:38 GMT -5
This is a question for tumbling using a Rotary of Vibe tumbler - only… What is YOUR first Go-To polish? Mohs 6-8 (Agates/Jaspers/Quartz, etc…): Mohs 4-5 (Turquoise, Sodalite, Opals, etc…): Mohs 2-3 (Calcite, Chrysocolla, etc…): Special category… Rocks with different material of different hardness – layers – prone to undercutting: Mohs 4-5 mixed with Mohs 6-8 (Tiger Eye, Jaspers, Gabbro, etc…): Keep this in mind Mitch. Tumblers break down abrasives allowing you to move from 220 to maybe 1000. If your rocks are really soft they can not break down hard abrasives unless you add say 50% hard media to assist breaking down the abrasives. So the 220 would stay 220 and a jump from 220 to 1000 may not be possible if you had 100% soft rocks. May need a 400 and 800 step. Imagine gypsum breaking down Mohs 9 silicon carbide 60/90 - not going to happen. But Mohs 7 quartz will sure break it down. So the hardness of the media has a big effect on your choice of abrasive in addition to the hardness of the rock. Abrasives for various rocks bounded to wheels is very much different than abrasives used for tumbling rocks. Harder the better for longevity. Proof of that would be tumbling with diamond abrasive, it is likely that it would never break down in a tumbler grinding agate. The agate is not hard enough nor the forces within a tumbler are not powerful enough to dull or break hard/super tough diamond particles. However, sharp diamond would be perfect for coarse grinding since you prefer for the abrasive to stay coarse and sharp. Or perfect for all size cab wheels since you want them to last forever.
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Post by rmf on Jan 13, 2018 16:11:29 GMT -5
these days only polish I use for tumbling is mirco aluminum. It is cheap enough I don't feel guilty tossing it out. It does a good job.
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Post by gmitch067 on Jan 13, 2018 17:54:42 GMT -5
If your rocks are really soft they can not break down hard abrasives unless you add say 50% hard media to assist breaking down the abrasives. So the 220 would stay 220 and a jump from 220 to 1000 may not be possible if you had 100% soft rocks. May need a 400 and 800 step. Imagine gypsum breaking down Mohs 9 silicon carbide 60/90 - not going to happen. But Mohs 7 quartz will sure break it down. So the hardness of the media has a big effect on your choice of abrasive in addition to the hardness of the rock. Abrasives for various rocks bounded to wheels is very much different than abrasives used for tumbling rocks. Harder the better for longevity. Proof of that would be tumbling with diamond abrasive, it is likely that it would never break down in a tumbler grinding agate. The agate is not hard enough nor the forces within a tumbler are not powerful enough to dull or break hard/super tough diamond particles. However, sharp diamond would be perfect for coarse grinding since you prefer for the abrasive to stay coarse and sharp. Or perfect for all size cab wheels since you want them to last forever. I understand what you are saying jamesp and agree (I have been following your threads - some goes right over my head at times, but I find them very interesting and I am endeavoring to incorporate them in how I attack my tumbles and vibs). I have a few+ pounds of cerium oxide, tin oxide, aluminum oxide polishes (and a pinch+ of ugly green chromium oxide - yuk) sitting on the shelf looking for a time to be useful. I was trying to focus on the final polish stage with this thread... a thumb-nail rule to determine which final polish to use.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2018 20:18:28 GMT -5
If your rocks are really soft they can not break down hard abrasives unless you add say 50% hard media to assist breaking down the abrasives. So the 220 would stay 220 and a jump from 220 to 1000 may not be possible if you had 100% soft rocks. May need a 400 and 800 step. Imagine gypsum breaking down Mohs 9 silicon carbide 60/90 - not going to happen. But Mohs 7 quartz will sure break it down. So the hardness of the media has a big effect on your choice of abrasive in addition to the hardness of the rock. Abrasives for various rocks bounded to wheels is very much different than abrasives used for tumbling rocks. Harder the better for longevity. Proof of that would be tumbling with diamond abrasive, it is likely that it would never break down in a tumbler grinding agate. The agate is not hard enough nor the forces within a tumbler are not powerful enough to dull or break hard/super tough diamond particles. However, sharp diamond would be perfect for coarse grinding since you prefer for the abrasive to stay coarse and sharp. Or perfect for all size cab wheels since you want them to last forever. I understand what you are saying jamesp and agree (I have been following your threads - some goes right over my head at times, but I find them very interesting and I am endeavoring to incorporate them in how I attack my tumbles and vibs). I have a few+ pounds of cerium oxide, tin oxide, aluminum oxide polishes (and a pinch+ of ugly green chromium oxide - yuk) sitting on the shelf looking for a time to be useful. I was trying to focus on the final polish stage with this thread... a thumb-nail rule to determine which final polish to use. Good luck with that. Good ole alum ox and 50% good Mohs 7 or harder polished media is about as good as it gets polishing in a vibe.
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Post by gmitch067 on Jan 13, 2018 21:43:49 GMT -5
Thank you jamesp. FYI... I could not find the TopFin Premium aquarium gravel at the local west coast PetCo, but purchased 5# of what looked the same... 'time to polish jelly beans! I am just waiting for one of the QT6 drums to polish them (and sort them to size). Question... Do you extend use of the pea gravel into the final polish stages of Mohs-6-8 material? (I will be using them with my mini-sonic MT-4)
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2018 5:59:55 GMT -5
I bought a 50 pound bag Mitch.
1) Me and wife sat around and picked about 20 pounds of the best quartz jellybeans 3/8 to 5/8 inch out of it. The remaining 30 pounds was set aside. 2) The 20 pounds simply got rolled in rotary with SiC 60 for a week making them ready for vibe use only. Should be a lifetime supply. 3) The remaining junky 30 pounds is ONLY used as padding on glass(or soft rocks) in Stage 2 of rotary with SiC 220. They will have a shorter life.
The 20 pounds select jelly beans are used only and always in both vibe stages AO 220 and AO 14,000. 60/70% beans for glass/soft rocks. 30% for Mohs 7 rocks.
During the AO 220 run they loose their polish at the beginning and become semi-polished at end of AO 220 run. After running them in 14,000 in the vibe jellybeans are polished. So the jellybeans are constantly loosing their polish and gaining a polish every complete 2 stage vibe run. And they will last years before wearing small. If any jellybeans break they are discarded. I no longer use SiC 220 in the vibe. It does shorten the life of the jellybeans.
I store the jellybeans in fresh water to keep the aluminum oxide in the cracks from concreting. I freeze them in water occasionally to clean them and crack weak ones. And prefer running them with sugar in both AO 220 and AO 14,000 for a vibe slurry thickener and ease of cleaning by dissolving aluminum oxide out of the cracks. So the jellybeans are kept sterile, wet and clean. They are a big player in the vibe pre-polishing and final polish operation.
I used to use AO 80 instead of AO 220 in the vibe but my new vibe is to gentle to break down AO 80. I have left over AO 80 particles leftover in the bottom of the new vibe hopper. Not with the AO 220.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2018 6:02:48 GMT -5
Mohs 4-5 (Turquoise, Sodalite, Opals, etc…):
Mohs 2-3 (Calcite, Chrysocolla, etc…):
Mitch, I have failed at polishing some of these rocks in the past. Can not help you with them. and mixed hardness rocks.
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Post by gmitch067 on Jan 14, 2018 8:05:57 GMT -5
Really good info jamesp. Thank you! Glenn
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2018 8:25:13 GMT -5
Really good info jamesp. Thank you! Glenn Tumbling recipe is established and simple now. Grind in rotary with SiC and polish in vibe AO 220 and 14,000. The media and slurries are more complicated than the abrasives.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 14, 2018 11:01:55 GMT -5
There is a chart I've seen several times that lists polish types to what rocks they go best with. Should be easy enough to Google... Unless you are me ... never have an easy time searching anything ... Ha!
I haven't found anything That AO won't polish. Howlite, glass, Sodalite, Agate/Jasper it does it all.
I find that cushion and slurry creation play a big part in getting a good shine.
I used to polish in 3# rotary. I got my best results by filling the barrels to about 85% full with about 30% ceramic media. Also used a lot of polish...6 tbs. in a 3# barrel makes a nice thick (sometimes foamy) polish slurry. Since the action is slower this way the run needs to be longer, at least two weeks, 3 or 4 weeks better.
In the vibe a thickener is a must for me. Many of our Lot-O users add borax. I use psyllium which is a bit tricky but very effective. A good amount of smalls is of course important as well whether it be from ceramic or "jelly beans".
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Jan 16, 2018 6:22:45 GMT -5
What tkvancil said exactly. I will say that the chart that I have seen included diamond. I believe that particular chart is for polishes applied with wheels. For instance, diamond is rarely used for tumbling so the chart must be referring to wheel abrasives. Polishing with a wheel and polishing by tumbling = two different animals. 30 to 60% hard media with aluminum oxide steps is hard to beat for working to a wet shine. Ken, since fooling with glass I have found that 85% barrel fill and 40% 1/2 inch media 60% glass in big 8.5 inch barrels at a fast 63 RPM will not bruise glass one iota. SiC 60 for about 5 days and the glass has a baby butt satin finish and ready for the vibe. With that fill and that amount of small media the hard barrels are purring with not a single knocking sound and can barely be heard.
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monna0000
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 243
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Post by monna0000 on Jan 16, 2018 18:57:52 GMT -5
I dry polish and loves my AO and as a media I use compressed Wood pellets, so I can reuse the AO and media over and over again and the Wood pellets are so cheep.
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Post by gmitch067 on Jan 17, 2018 11:58:31 GMT -5
Interesting idea! How do the compressed Wood pellets work out monna0000? What type of wood... and how long do they last for. I have heard of using walnut shells.
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monna0000
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 243
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Post by monna0000 on Jan 17, 2018 13:35:29 GMT -5
Interesting idea! How do the compressed Wood pellets work out monna0000 ? What type of wood... and how long do they last for. I have heard of using walnut shells. It works fine for me, I do tumble both soft and hard stones so the it works for both types. The polish goes into all the littel holes in the pellets and really gets moved around. It is less attention needing since its a dry polish and it takes the same amount of time to polish. I bought a big bag (30 lbs for 6$ ) the deceleration says pine tree, but I dont know if it matters? (link to the Danish ones www.harald-nyborg.dk/p2143/traepiller-8mm-16-kg) and I think its the same as thees ones www.homedepot.com/p/Stove-Chow-Premium-Wood-Pellet-Fuel-40-lb-Bag-Stove-Chow/205700777I made a small video(click on the picture) just for you gmitch067 to show you how it looks. I have done 3 batches of polish with theese and they still hold up. I added 4 table spoons of AO to my Raytech 10 with the first batch and for the next 2 batches I only added 1 table spoon as there already was enough. I do have separat bowls for grinding and polish wich makes it easy. IMG_9357 by Mona Hemmingsen, on Flickr This is the left over from my latest batch wich was a test batch of mixed stones and preforms, it even did give a great polish to my small marble nuggets from greece. Hope you try this and like it - I'm really happy with it.
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Post by gmitch067 on Jan 18, 2018 11:54:10 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing this information monna0000I'm going to have to try this out! Glenn
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Fritz
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2016
Posts: 77
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Post by Fritz on Jan 18, 2018 22:03:19 GMT -5
I've only used AO for agate and jasper, I haven't tried anything else mostly because it's (I'm) cheap.
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