jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 5:24:09 GMT -5
After almost 10 years of tumbling rocks and glass a money maker selling tumbles finally hit me.
Tools and materials and market:
100's(better yet thousands) of pretty 5/16" to 3/8" thick glass slabs sawed into pendant shapes ready to tumble shape/polish. 3mm and 4mm drill bits and Dremel tool mounted in drill press for drilling fast holes. Avoiding 1mm and 1.5mm holes as they take forever. Tumbling machines. Market exposure, likely thru Facebook artisan groups.
More to come, must experiment drilling 3mm/4mm holes first, the only unknown in equation.
Waiting for sun to come up. Call it a WIP.
"My arrogance knows no bounds"
or
"Learn from your failures", the most likely destiny...NO, got a feeling about this one. One of them gut feelings. Ah, the smell of success in the air, pumped.
Mission Statement:
To pre-drill pre-sawn pendant shaped deco glass and then tumble shape/polish. With concerns about pre-drilling capability/efficiency and drilled holes plugging up during tumbling from broken glass particles.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 5:25:44 GMT -5
Criticism/concerns welcome please.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 5:29:38 GMT -5
To avoid broken glass particles it may be best to complete about 50% of the course tumble at high RPM's before drilling and clean batch well. That should weed out the delicate/fractured pieces. Complete coarse shaping at lower RPM after holes are drilled to avoid further breakage.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 5:38:29 GMT -5
The labor problem is always attaching cordage/chain to stone.
|
|
|
Post by fernwood on Oct 8, 2018 6:12:40 GMT -5
Sounds like a great plan to me.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 6:37:16 GMT -5
Sounds like a great plan to me. I am getting my best pendant shapes since selling the 3/8" arrowhead slabs. Though they are overly thick at 3/8" they can be crudely sawn to pendant shapes. And plenty strong enough to quickly ram a diamond drill thru them. But the big surprise was from heavy coarse tumble shaping a 3/8" sawn shaped slab pendant to +/- 3/16" thick. Granted there is over 50% material loss but the finest perfectly symmetrical shaped pendants are being created. Regardless of poorly sawn angles and burrs the heavy material reduction ends up being a perfectly balanced shaped product. Just like a rock tumbling down a stream will eventually seek the shape of a perfect sphere, the pendant edges and corners seek perfect radius'. It would be cost prohibitive to tumble shape agates like this because they are so slow to shape but soft glass takes little time for this natural transformation. The sawing is fast and cheap, the tumbling is fast and cheap, the polishing is fast and cheap. Hopefully the same for drilling....AND SELLING lol.
|
|
|
Post by toiv0 on Oct 8, 2018 6:45:04 GMT -5
I would think most of the artisans would want to attach their own cordage to the Cabs and don't want a finished product. Labor problem solved. Target bead shops near college campus's. On the bigger ones 4mm might not be big enough. 6mm is approx 1/4 inch, 8mm close to 5/16
|
|
|
Post by toiv0 on Oct 8, 2018 6:47:33 GMT -5
Maybe the 4mm hole will be bigger with tumbling
|
|
|
Post by toiv0 on Oct 8, 2018 6:48:48 GMT -5
If the are displayed in trays will they chip with handling when people pick them up and place them back?
|
|
surreality
starting to spend too much on rocks
is picking up too many rocks at the beach again
Member since January 2012
Posts: 217
|
Post by surreality on Oct 8, 2018 7:22:21 GMT -5
Speaking as a beader and massive hoarder of jewelry supplies of all kinds -- I actually think you'd make a lot more selling completed drilled 'pendants' or 'charms' (depending on the size) than you would the supplies and the machines.
A lot of beaders 'don't want to get very dirty' (or don't have a lot of space for projects), but would happily pay $2-12 for a single piece like that without even blinking about it, if not potentially (possibly substantially) more.
This may sound crazy and unrealistic, but I've absolutely seen it, especially when it's something truly unique and is hand-crafted.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 7:40:37 GMT -5
Speaking as a beader and massive hoarder of jewelry supplies of all kinds -- I actually think you'd make a lot more selling completed drilled 'pendants' or 'charms' (depending on the size) than you would the supplies and the machines. A lot of beaders 'don't want to get very dirty' (or don't have a lot of space for projects), but would happily pay $2-12 for a single piece like that without even blinking about it, if not potentially (possibly substantially) more. This may sound crazy and unrealistic, but I've absolutely seen it, especially when it's something truly unique and is hand-crafted. Me and you strongly agree on this point surreality. I will see if I can successfully tumble holes first. If yes, then may be looking for a faster method of drilling. Perhaps you know of a faster method - water jet ? Ultrasonic ? Glad to hear from a beader at this moment. You bead folks often use bead grommets. Made to fit 4mm/5mm/5.5mm/6mm holes. toiv0This caught my interest. Drilling holes of this size is SO much easier than 1mm to 2mm holes. Don't mind drilling if it is quick and causes little breakage. The other point, money. You guys will pay serious money for sexy beads. Bead shapes and tumbling characteristic shapes go hand in hand. Thanks for your input very much.
|
|
surreality
starting to spend too much on rocks
is picking up too many rocks at the beach again
Member since January 2012
Posts: 217
|
Post by surreality on Oct 8, 2018 8:06:57 GMT -5
The only drill method I've ever used is the dremel, and it's not at all efficient -- there are plunge router attachments and such, but naturally not for the kind of dremel I have. I know they make a type of diamond bit intended to core out a hole of some size, however, which would leave you with a little glass nub. (Might be interesting to collect and eventually tumble as tiny dots?)
I'm one of those folks who uses components more than I make them, and am only starting to nudge toward the making them bit, so I'm not as well-versed as some might be on this.
I have to wonder if there's something specifically designed for this, though, since I'd imagine it comes up from time to time in stained glass work or similar applications.
|
|
|
Post by grumpybill on Oct 8, 2018 8:10:14 GMT -5
My tumbling method is very different than yours...as is the type of glass I work with...but I gave up on drilling holes before tumbling. The hole creates a weak point near the edge. 10-15% of the pieces would break there during the process. And that was with 1.5mm holes. I would expect larger holes to be even worse.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 8:38:45 GMT -5
My tumbling method is very different than yours...as is the type of glass I work with...but I gave up on drilling holes before tumbling. The hole creates a weak point near the edge. 10-15% of the pieces would break there during the process. And that was with 1.5mm holes. I would expect larger holes to be even worse. I will choose to mention the protective value of instant medium thickness slurry here Bill. Not one rotation without it. Brew slurry in barrel first and then add delicate tumbles. Slow barrel speed. Now the hole location may be a bit more inboard than normal for a pendant. And for beads dead center = no problems. No concerns in vibe(in mine anyway). 5 inch long glass 'toothpicks' for example saw coarse at 90 RPM.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2018 8:45:11 GMT -5
The only drill method I've ever used is the dremel, and it's not at all efficient -- there are plunge router attachments and such, but naturally not for the kind of dremel I have. I know they make a type of diamond bit intended to core out a hole of some size, however, which would leave you with a little glass nub. (Might be interesting to collect and eventually tumble as tiny dots?) I'm one of those folks who uses components more than I make them, and am only starting to nudge toward the making them bit, so I'm not as well-versed as some might be on this. I have to wonder if there's something specifically designed for this, though, since I'd imagine it comes up from time to time in stained glass work or similar applications. I'll be drilling pendant/bead sized glass with whatever larger bits I have in stock surreality and post success here later. In some cases a core bit for larger holes may be used. Not sure what the design is called but sort of donut shaped... I know for a fact core bits drill quickly. Sometimes it is a challenge removing the nub you spoke of.
|
|
surreality
starting to spend too much on rocks
is picking up too many rocks at the beach again
Member since January 2012
Posts: 217
|
Post by surreality on Oct 8, 2018 9:05:01 GMT -5
They're usually 'donuts', really! I haven't seen many other names for them out there that I can recall. That would be a great option, I have to say.
|
|
|
Post by grumpybill on Oct 8, 2018 11:20:08 GMT -5
I will choose to mention the protective value of instant medium thickness slurry here Bill... I don't pre-brew my slurry, but I do thicken it. And...my glass generates a lot of "shaving cream" which adds to the cushioning. I should add that another reason for giving up on predrilling is that I prefer having the option of drilling, gluing or wire wrapping, depending on my mood when I finish them.
|
|
NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
|
Post by NRG on Oct 8, 2018 12:12:08 GMT -5
The labor problem is always attaching cordage/chain to stone. Ship them separately. Make it the clients labor
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on Oct 8, 2018 12:51:35 GMT -5
I will see if I can successfully tumble holes first. If yes, then may be looking for a faster method of drilling. Perhaps you know of a faster method - water jet ? Ultrasonic ? You need an ultrasonic drill, I have a friend who picked one up at an estate auction that is looking to sell his as he has never got around to using it if you are interested let me know and I can put you in touch with him. Tony
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 8, 2018 13:26:58 GMT -5
I avoid drilling rocks at all cost. Just never been something I enjoyed doing. I am sure glass is like butter in comparison to agates and jaspers though. When you get into the 4mm-6mm range I think they start becoming core bits which means you need to flush out the core after every hole. Years ago I was making pandora beads that required a 5mm hole and there were times where it took as long to get the core out of the bit as it did to drill the hole. I think the larger cores in bits like 1" diameter are not bad to get out but the inner core of a 5MM drill bit is really small. For your volume ultrasonic seems like the logical choice. The largest I have seen ultrasonic bits is 2mm though. Maybe someone that uses one will know the limits. Another thing to think about when doing volume drilling/coring is a the swivel gizmo that allows water to flow through the bit right into the hole you are drilling. Not sure if they work on such small holes though. www.diamond-drill-bit-and-tool.com/Diamond-Drill/Drill-Water-Swivel.shtmlGood luck with your endeavor jamesp. No doubt you will come up with a way to make it work. Chuck
|
|