QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 22, 2015 23:52:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't get the Pixie unless you only plan to cut small or soft stones. The 4" wheels will cut too slowly and wear out too quickly on larger cabs of hard materials. And the smaller radius of a 4" wheel will be slightly more difficult to get a smooth flat or convex surface on larger cabs than a larger diameter wheel will. Aside from that IMO the most significant differences between the "ready to use" 6" wheeled machines on the market is the quality of the grinding and sanding wheels. For a beginner the Diamond Pacific Galaxy wheels or the Crystalite Crystal Ring Wheels are very good. I prefer the resin and diamond coated soft wheels to Expando drums for sanding (though either will work). And as far as the soft wheels go I prefer the Diamond Pacific Nova Wheels to the Chinese Imported Soft Wheels. I don't know much about the quality of the motor on the Cab King but I believe I read something recently where even Baldor is importing their small motors now too so there may be no significant differences there. I prefer a clean water feed to a recirculating type unless there is some type of filtering system being used for the recirculated water. Aside from those things most of the other features just come down to personal preferences. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 22, 2015 23:28:55 GMT -5
Me likes! Me likes! Man I'd love to have a five gallon bucket full of agates like that! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 22, 2015 23:24:27 GMT -5
Hello Sorg, MK, Star Diamond, and Vanguard all produced contracted custom diamond blades to be sold under other brand/distributor names. But they were usually a standard model blade that was just custom painted for the contracting customer. I know that MK made contract custom blades at one time or another for MLS (Minnesota Lapidary Supply) and Lortone, and there were probably others too. They nearly always still had the MK Blade model number stamped somewhere on them. Sometimes it's hard to find if the paint is thick. But there should be a 297 or 301 stamped on it somewhere. There is also frequently a production date code number too. Sometimes there will be a letter included in the model number like "C301". Look it over in good sunlight with magnification and you may be able to find it. If you can you will have your answer. Larry C. P.S. We like pictures of old saws .
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 20, 2015 9:23:48 GMT -5
Thank you deb. Also can someone who was having trouble with the first link try this one and let me know if this link works with the systems the first one didn't? www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=quailriver&_sop=1If it does I will add it to the OP. Thanks! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 19, 2015 13:07:14 GMT -5
I was puzzled about some folks having trouble viewing the link so I exited Mozilla and opened Internet Explorer and tried opening the link from Explorer and it wouldn't work for me either. Instead I got a dialog box saying:
"Please enable JavaScript - Our new search experience requires JavaScript to be enabled. Please enable JavaScript on your browser, and try again"
While still in Internet Explorer I then went to the eBay search page and typed in a seller's search for QuailRiver and got the same dialogue box. I'm not sure when they made this change but I do not recommend anyone change their browser settings to accommodate Internet Explorer's request on this. Enabling JavaScript makes you more susceptible to advertisers and spammers.
I'm not an I.T. guy but maybe one of our more I.T. savvy members can let us know how to get around this using Internet Explorer?
Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 19, 2015 1:25:36 GMT -5
Just wanted to let everyone know that I have listed on eBay 124 lots including a used Ultra-Tec V2 Faceting Machine, a used Rock Rascal Model "T", lots of "old Stock" cutting rough from old estate collections, Casting Flasks and Ingot Moulds, Busch Cutting Burrs, Cratex Wheels, Ferris File-A-Wax, Castaldo Injection Casting Wax, Silver Smithing Tools & Supplies (much of which is New-Old-Stock from the remaining inventory of a jewelry supply house I bought out a couple of years ago) and more. You can view it all here: www.ebay.com/sch/Quailriver/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1 or do an eBay seller's search for seller name QuailRiver . We do combine multiple purchases to save the buyer on shipping costs. If you have any questions you can email me through my eBay account or at QuailRiver@Northstate.net . Thanks for looking! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 15, 2015 2:54:31 GMT -5
I use a mildly worn 100 grit diamond wheel for the first grind and then move to a well worn 100 grit diamond wheel to smooth out the coarse grind divots. Then I go to a slightly worn 60 or 80 grit S/C belt to quickly get the shape and most of the dome material removed. I then go to a worn 220 S/C belt run dry to finish removing any grind or sand marks. This is followed by a slightly worn 400 belt run dry to get the final shape. Then to a well worn 220 and 400 and off to the polishing wheel. I learned many years ago on S/C wheels and belts. Early on I graduated from the split wheel "thumper" wheels to the expandos. After the price of diamond wheels started coming down I went to them. I feel quite comfortable with my method and the belts last me many years and they are still cheap. I am currently writing a monthly article for Rock and Gem about how I make my very large cabs with S/C belts. The first two articles have appeared in the January and February issues. Bob Respectfully Bob, I would like to point out to any novice lapidary hobbyists reading your post the dangers of grinding or sanding dry. Inhaling particles of rock dust can cause silicosis. Even if a dust mask is worn while doing the actual cutting, without a sophisticated air cleaning system, the silica containing rock dust settles everywhere in the shop and remains a health risk when disturbed enough to become airborne again. I know of two people who have died from breathing rock dust. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 13, 2015 20:38:11 GMT -5
Very Nice! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 13, 2015 20:32:31 GMT -5
I currently use an 80gt sintered diamond grinding wheel for pre-forming and rough shaping but leave some meat on the bone for the 220gt diamond wheel to remove for final shaping. While the 80gt is much faster, doing the final shaping with it will leave deep scratches on the crown that can be tough to sand out. And I really, really HATE having to sand out deep scratches! There are a couple of other sanding belt options to SC for the Expando drums. The least expensive are Crystalbelts www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=100739&catID=1140 which can be charged with the diamond paste grit of your choice. www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/products.php?keys=diamond%20paste&catID= These are inexpensive and I used Crystalbelts and Crystalpads for many years with good results. After applying the diamond paste to the belts/pads I used spray silicon for lube. When they start getting less effective just recharge them again with diamond paste. The Crystalbelt I had charged with 600gt diamond lasted over 20 years. You just have to be sure to clean the cab very well with a solvent like Naptha in between each grit so you don't carry coarser diamond paste to a finer charged belt and contaminate it. Then the other option, which is a more expensive than Crystalbelts but less expensive than the Nova wheels, are the pre-charged Diamond Resin Belts. I used these for several years too but the last couple of times I bought these they didn't seem to last as long as they used to and are getting so expensive that I decided the Nova wheels would be a better value and switched to them. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 13, 2015 12:17:28 GMT -5
Okay I understand now. 100gt diamond is pretty aggressive and leaves deep scratches. Most people do their finish shaping on 220gt (SC or Diamond)or even a 360gt diamond grinding wheel before going to the sanding belts. Also what may be happening with the glass is similar to a discussion that was held a few years back on the USFG yahoo group site where some facters who were doing their rough shaping on 100 grit and 180gt laps were complaining of having scratches follow throughout the rest of the shaping and polishing process. And regardless of how much more material they cut away the scratches remained. I remember one of the members explaining that he had studied this process under magnification and it was determined that the coarse 100/180 grit diamond particles were actually scoring the surface of high silica content faceting rough in the same way a piece of plate glass would be scored for cutting with a diamond tipped glass scoring tool. And the reaction was the same as with scored glass where fractures emanate from the scores (scratches) deeper into the subsurface of the stone and continue to run deeper throughout the entire cutting process. So this may be what is happening when you do your shaping of glass on a 100 grit diamond wheel. I would suggest adding a 220 grit grinding wheel to the process. And if the 220gt you add is SC then you could probably eliminate the 220gt and 320 SC belts. When cabbing exclusively with SC the normal line of progression would be 100gt, 220gt,400gt,600gt, and then a worn 600gt for pre-polish. Back in the mid 70s when diamond wheels started becoming more affordable the normal line of progression using diamond exclusively was 180gt (grinding), 360gt (grinding), 600gt, 1200gt, and then 3000gt and sometimes 8000gt pre-polish. I think probably the reason most folks started with 180gt back then was because industrial diamond production was still expensive and the larger growth of diamond crystals necessary to produce the 80gt and 100gt wheels made them much more expensive than the 180gt. But these days when cabbing exclusively with diamond the normal line of progression is 80gt or 100gt, and 220 grit grinding wheels. Then to 280gt, 600gt, 1200gt, and then 3000gt pre-polish. I hope this helps. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 21:23:57 GMT -5
My opinion; no oil. If a guy trying to sell me opal tells me they need to be stored in oil I would be highly suspicious that this variety of opal is very susceptible to cracking OR that the opal is already cracked and oil is being used to hide this fact. If the later was the case then cleaning the oil out would expose the cracks.
I keep most of my rough opal stored dry in air tight screw cap jars or in sealed zip lock bags. I do have a couple of jars of opal in water that I bought as part of old collections that I haven't done anything with yet. But before I do I will slow dry them out. If they are already stored in water then keeping them in it isn't likely to do them any harm. It's drying them out without drying them too quickly, or without getting them too dry that is tricky. Seems some opals are going to eventually crack regardless but we do what we can to prevent this. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 20:28:33 GMT -5
Thank you Larry for taking the time to pass all that valuable information along. Knowing the height of the vise blocks helps me understand the dimensions better. You would pay $575 even with the hood missing? Have you ever had problems with your bearings? I have a 14" saw for larger rocks, so going to the limit of the Raytech 10" shouldn't be necessary. I was just trying to get a feel for what it can do. Getting an extra sump bin might be a good idea if I get it to switch from oil to water in seconds. Thanks again. Will talk with the seller and ask about rust & wobble before I drive all the way down there. Happy to be of help! If there is nothing else wrong with the saw and it has only been used a few times to cut glass as they claim then I still wouldn't pay over $575 with it missing the hood. With shipping, a new hood is going to run around $125. So $700 total for this used saw would be absolute top dollar IMO. I would try to get it for less. I have had four or five of these saws over the years and have had to replace the bearings on two. With any brand saw frequently used you are going to have to occasionally replace bearings. Also it is so quick and easy to clean out the sump pan that having a second one would not be necessary. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 19:55:23 GMT -5
Diamond does leave deeper scratches than it's SC grit equivalent. So if you are going from a 220 grit diamond wheel to an SC belt then yes you may need an SC belt at least as coarse as 280 before going to 400 SC. Not sure if I have answered your question or not? Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 19:44:08 GMT -5
I have an older version of this 10" Raytech saw so I'm not sure if the dimensions are exactly the same as on this newer one or not. But the vice on mine will hold a rock approximately 4-7/8" long by 3-1/8" tall. The wood blocks in the vise are 2" tall. But like with any saw, just because a rock will fit in it's vise doesn't necessarily mean that the saw will cut it. The Raytech vise will not as securely hold as large of a rock as the Lortone 10" saw with the over/under type vise will. But the flip side of that is the Raytech saw will more securely hold smaller rocks than the Lortone vise will. Which comes in handy when slabbing small lake Superior, Botswana, or Coyamito type Agate nodules. One of the positive features of the Raytech saw is it has a plastic lift-out slump container which makes it easier to clean. Due to this feature I like to use mine when using water based coolants when sawing turquoise, malachite, Howlite or any other porous material that I don't want absorbing oil. It's much easier to clean up an dry out the Raytech after using water in it. IMO the biggest negative feature of the Raytech is the type of bearings it uses. Most slab saws use standard insert type bearings which are inexpensive to replace. The Raytech uses a specially housed water pump bearing that is more expensive to replace. The Raytech is a good saw and it's nice to have the trim saw option but for slabbing alone the now out of production 10" Lortone is my first choice. I would not pay over $575 for that saw and if it has any sign of rust on the power feed rod or arbor, or the blade has any wobble, I wouldn't even pay that much. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 18:40:22 GMT -5
Are you asking about 220 SC hard wheel and 280 SC Belt on Expando? If not what is the set up configuration you mean? Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 18:32:46 GMT -5
The number of cabs one can get per SC belt or disc varies depending on the several factors. Size, hardness and shapes of the cabs matters, plus not all brands of SC are equal either. Back when I first learned to cab all we had were SC wheels. The common set up was 100gt & 220gt hard wheels for shaping. Then 400gt, 600gt for sanding and then a worn 600gt for pre-polishing. Then on to the polishing surface and oxide or choice. After using diamond I would never want to have to go back to using SC. Even though diamond is more expensive it is a much better value, not only in time saved, but in the number of cabs finished per dollar invested in grinding wheels and sanding belts/discs. Diamond is also much cleaner and produces less contamination issues than SC. If you like cabbing with SC you will LOVE cabbing with diamond! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2015 18:17:00 GMT -5
I'm no expert on Opals by any stretch. But I have cut several over the years, mostly Australian. Not only does location of the source seem to play a role in how stable opals are, but also how they are handled after they come out of the ground. Most precious opals have a high water content when they come out of the ground. Some miners slow dry their opals before selling to prove stability, while others put them straight into water rather than go through the drying process. Putting them straight into water bypasses any responsibility of first seeing how stable their material is before selling plus keeps the weight a little higher. When I have bought rough opals I have kept this in mind. I will not pay as much for opal sold wet as I will for equivalent quality opal sold dry. When I have bought opals that have been stored in Jars of water I always slow dry them out before reselling or cutting. I place the wet opals in a small zip lock bag but do not seal it and then place the small unsealed zip lock bag with the opal in a larger sealed zip lock bag for several weeks. Some of the moisture will evaporate from the small bag of opal into the larger sealed zip lock where it is trapped so the opal doesn't dry out too fast. After a few weeks I unseal the larger zip lock and let the moister slowly evaporate from both. I've seen other people dry larger quantities like this using Rubbermaid or Tupperware containers. IMO taking wet opal straight from a jar of water and then cutting is asking for trouble. As for dopping, in the early days I ruined my share by over heating. Not only can over heating crack opal but can also turn is chalky white. An alternative to conventional dopping I saw an old cutter use to avoid heat all together was to use Durham's Wood Putty powder mixed with water to adhere the stone to the dop. After the wood putty dries it can be coated with shellac to water proof it while cabbing. After cabbing the opal scrape the shellac off the wood putty with a x-acto knife and then soak it in water to dissolve the Durahm's Wood Putty. But I would think this process may rehydrate the opal and require slow drying it out again. I have not tried this process myself yet so can't personally verify how well it works.
As for storing rough opal in oil I have never heard of doing this and would never buy opal that was. Oil is too often used to hide defects in other gemstones and I would be highly skeptical of any oiled opal rough being offered. That said, back in the 70s I remember Jewelers used to tell their customers to rub their cabbed opal stone on the side of their nose once in a while believing that the body oil from their noses would keep the opal from cracking. I know this sounds weird but that was a common practice back then. I store my dry opal rough in air tight sealed jars or small sealed zip lock baggies.
As for storing already cabbed Opals, I've never had problems with small cabs being stored for long periods of time in paper sleeves or gem jars. But I did buy some very large cabbed Australian opals as part of an old collection that had probably been cabbed for twenty years before I bought them. I stored them in the same paper sleeves they were in when I bought them but after a couple of years they began cracking. I don't know if this was due to the atmosphere being drier where I am or if there was some other reason. Either way it's a sick feeling when it happens.
Larry C
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 9, 2015 17:02:51 GMT -5
The Lortone ST-10 was an earlier version of the LS-10. I'm not sure when they stopped producing the ST-10 but they stopped producing the newer LS-10 version around 2007. Kingsley North still had them in their 2006 catalog complete with blade and motor for $870. IMO the ST-10 and the LS-10 were the best 10" power feed slab saws ever made. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 8, 2015 23:33:22 GMT -5
Reminds me of a couple of small pieces of highly agatized stromatolite I have with blue agate mixed in, but not as purple as yours appears to be. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 5, 2015 15:15:49 GMT -5
The gravity feed might be what I need to do some cutting of my copper pieces. I have been warned about auto feeds and copper. Slow is ok and a feed that won't power into heavy copper might be what the doctor ordered. I wonder if the Cutoff saw blades used for cutting metal might work better than a diamond blade for that purpose? They are inexpensive enough. Home Depot has a 12" one for $5.97. Has anyone here tried these for the native copper in matrix minerals? Larry C.
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