QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 18, 2014 18:04:50 GMT -5
Not to argue minor details but the old notch rims were also sintered. The cores were notched, diamond mixture applied, notches rolled over. Then blades went into high temp oven to sinter diamond mixture into the mild steel core. If I remember correctly BD used 4 workers and 20 some different steps to produce the blades. I wonder if Star Diamond or BD made the black Blazers for Raytech? Look exactly the same. When I ordered notched rim blades they would sometimes ask if I wanted them painted a particular color. Many suppliers had blades painted and labeled and sold as "our blades". I'm not sure who made the blazer blades for Raytech. I have an old Federal-Mogul Vanguard Inter Lok blade made in Leroy, NY that looks to be made the same as the old Raytech Blazer blades. Somewhere along the way Vanguard either merged with or was acquired by Husqvarna who still makes diamond blades for other industries. But it gets confusing at times. The history of lapidary diamond blade production reads almost like a pulp romance novel. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 18, 2014 12:01:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. I was hoping people would have direct experience with either model. I wasn't looking for advice related to thickness. But I do appreciate the effort. From this picture you can see that the Rimlock is notched. The Raytech is sintered. I expect to mohstly slab, rather than trim. Lynn The Black Blazer blade you show in the photo is an old American made one. The new Asian made Black Blazers do not have the notches in the sintered rim, or at least the 14" ones don't. I have used both the Golden Rimlock and the American made Black Blazer blades and as stated before IMO you can't go wrong with either. They are both good blades of fairly equal quality and performance with the only significant difference being that the Raytech Black Blazer Blade is thicker and stiffer which makes it less prone to dishing but will cause more waste material. So that's your consideration to make; save material with the Golden Rimlock or have a stiffer more resilient blade with the Black Blazer? Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 13, 2014 18:45:58 GMT -5
I think all the Raytech blades are made in China. Why would you want such a thick blade on a 10" saw? Seems like a lot of kerf loss to me. The last two 14" Raytech Black Blazer Blades I bought had Made in S. Korea stickers on them. That's been a couple of years ago. Also it looked like they were made with the exact same process as the Barranca 303 blades but with larger diamond particles. They even had the thicker kerf on one edge than on the other the way the Barranca blades do now. The old American made Blazer Blades were good blades but I'm not impressed with the new Asian made ones from Raytech or Barranca. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 13, 2014 1:18:48 GMT -5
If the Black Blazer is an older American made blade I would try to buy them both. I believe all of the new black Blazer Blades are made in South Korea. If it is an American made blade you can't go wrong with it or the Felker Golden Rimlock. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 13, 2014 1:07:38 GMT -5
Do NOT buy a new HP saw. If you want the scoop on those saws, contact Richardson Ranch in Oregon. They have about six of them. You've been warned. Mike, Are you meaning the Highland Park Saws? I think Roger is referring to the Barranca Highland Precision HP14 instead of the Highland Park. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 2, 2014 22:57:48 GMT -5
I have bought out a lot of old lapidary collections and have had at one time or another most brands of lapidary saws produced in the last 40-50 years. None have been perfect. All have had some good features and all have had a design flaw or two. But based on the machines I have handled and used, if buying a new 10" trim/slab saw with an automatic powerfeed I would choose the Raytech Deluxe Model 10", or the Diamond Pacific TC-10. For a gravity fed 10" slab/trim saw I would choose the Rock's 10" saw made by Polaris Tool & Machine. If buying a used 10" saw for slabbing only, the now out of production Lortone LS-10 was a great saw.
If buying a new 14" slab saw I would choose the Barranca Highland Precision HP14 saw or the Diamond Pacific TC-14. If buying a vintage used 14" saw in good condition my first choice would be a Frantom, next would be a Star Diamond which is very similar to the Diamond Pacific TC-14. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 2, 2014 21:58:19 GMT -5
I usually start at the end and work inward with the exception of some of the more rounded nodules of agates like Brazilians and Ky Agates where the rounded shape makes them difficult to securely clamp in the saw. Those I will try to saw the first cut near the center and then use a slab grabber to hold them in the vise or glue the flat sawed faces to a wooden block to hold them securely while then slicing each half from the end towards the middle cut. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Nov 1, 2014 6:37:16 GMT -5
Yes, those topper laps will work. I am not familiar with that brand so don't know how long they will last. But at that price what have you got to lose? However, you will need a master lap for a backing support for those toppers. For an inexpensive aluminum master lap, if you know anyone that facets ask them if they have any old worn out Crystalite Standard laps laying around, not the Crystalite Steel Laps but the aluminum backed Crystalite Standard laps, that they are finished with. You can heat the Crystalite Standard laps in the oven at 250 degrees for ten or fifteen minutes to soften the adhesive, and then quickly before they cool, while wearing a good pair of oven mitts, use a sturdy blade or chisel to separate the worn out diamond platted topper lap from the aluminum master lap. Let it cool and then use one of the good semi-paste paint strippers that has methylene chloride like Strypeeze or Red Devil (not the bio-crap stuff) to dissolve the remaining adhesive residue from the aluminum backer lap. Let the chemical stripper do most of the work for you by applying a thick coat and letting it sit for 10-15 minutes, If it starts drying out recoat (never let the chemical stripper completely dry out or you'll have a hard time ever getting it redissolved). Then use a piece of coarse steel wool to remove the stripper and adhesive residue. Then clean with lacquer thinner or hot soapy water to remove the remaining the stripper residue. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 21, 2014 13:00:49 GMT -5
That is cool! But I bet it's load too! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 21, 2014 11:16:47 GMT -5
Yes, a huge trim saw. But wouldn't it be cool to have that saw and make a vice that could hold several individual rocks clamped in a row for the saw to cut through in one pass? Line up 4' of rocks to be slabbed, turn on the saw and go to work, come home at lunch and move the carriage over for the next cuts and go back to work, come home and do it again before bedtime! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 21, 2014 11:05:30 GMT -5
Yes, that model was made for cutting things like stone counter tops and monuments that are already in large slab form. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 20, 2014 22:40:55 GMT -5
IMO $700 is way too much money for that unit. It's probably at least 40 years old and those old worn out SC wheels have metal arbor collars which are probably seized up on the arbor with oxidation. They can be a real pain to ever get off a rusty arbor. The bearings and all the rubber parts are probably bad by now too. At $700 by the time you buy new bearings, belt, grinding wheels, sanding drum, and refurbish the polishing disc you will have gone a long ways towards paying for a new cabbing machine. Personally, after having restored a similar old Highland Park unit a few years back, I would not consider giving over $250 for such a unit. Also I've never been a fan of having a trim saw attached to the cabbing machine. If you use oil in the trim saw you'll have to drain it after each use or you'll be breathing oil mist all the while you are cabbing too. But it never hurts to go look at such a unit just to see if the guy has some good old stock cutting rough you can buy.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 17, 2014 19:03:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. Not exactly a counter-top unit though, and floor space is at a premium. I may be looking for something that isn't out there - a counter top unit, minimal overspray and capable of cutting hard material. Cost, though a consideration, is not a limiting factor. In the barn setup, I have an HP 18" for slabs, and a Covington 10" slab/trim saw. I'd like to have a small trim saw that I can use indoors during the cooler months (I start to get frostbite when it's below 50). Still looking. I'm not sure how closely you looked at the Lortone model TS8 that Tony suggested but with a good blade it will certainly cut hard materials and with the style of plastic hood that that model has (with the open sides for hand trimming) will probably contain spray as good or better than any trim saw on the market. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 12, 2014 22:12:26 GMT -5
Absolutely gorgeous slab but $8K? If he really believes that then IMHO it's time to change his tin foil hat. And I happen to have a barely used roll of tin foil I'm willing to sell him for $1200. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 10, 2014 19:13:36 GMT -5
I've had my 12" Lortone overheat a couple of times and trip the thermal protection switch. But after it cooled for a while pushing the red reset button has always worked for me. I think before I did anything drastic I would check to make sure the power toggle switch for the motor didn't short out. Unplug the motor cord from the control box and plug a lamp into the motor power outlet on the control box and flip the power toggle switch on. If the lamp doesn't light up you got lucky and it's the toggle switch - an inexpensive fix. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 8, 2014 21:23:18 GMT -5
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 4, 2014 11:52:00 GMT -5
I am considering purchasing a small (4") trim saw. Right now, I am using a C40 band saw to cut preforms. It works well, but is kind of slow on thicker/harder material, and the blades are fairly costly for the life I'm getting out of them. I'm probably a little heavy handed. The saw would be set up in a kitchen converted to workshop, so I would like to have minimal overspray/splash, and fairly quiet would be a plus. So far, I am considering an Ameritool or HiTech, but am definitely open to other makes. I would appreciate any input, recommendations, evaluations or opinions from those of you with experience. Thanks for any assistance you may be able to provide. Four inch trim saws are fine for cutting small soft materials like turquoise and opal, or for trimming faceting rough. But if you are going to be using it for preforming agates and other hard materials you're better off going ahead and getting a larger size trim saw than 4". Otherwise you will be spending the difference on blades. Four inch blades will wear out fast trimming hard materials. I use a 6" model "J" Rock Rascal for trimming most slabs and for larger slabs trim them on my Raytech 10" trim/slab saw. Both are a little too messy for in home use. The Lortone TS-8 that Tony mentioned has a clear hood with open sides that would probably help contain the spray better for in house use. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 3, 2014 23:28:26 GMT -5
The last time I looked into buying a piece of Plexiglas for making a part vs. buying the replacement part from the manufacturer, figuring in labor, there really wasn't much difference in the price. If you want to check with Lortone for a price. The part number for the Plexiglas hood for the 10" slab saw is # 052-23. Their contact info is shown below. If they are too high and you have trouble bending a piece of Plexiglas to get a good seal I have seen a couple of those saws where the owner made a hood out of sheet aluminum. Can't see through it but frankly once the oil gets dirty it's hard to see through the Plexiglas ones anyway.
LORTONE, inc 12130 Cyrus Way Mukilteo, WA 98275-5700 USA Phone: (425) 493-1600 or (800) 426-6773 Fax: (425) 493-9494 Email: equipment@lortone.com
Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 2, 2014 16:26:00 GMT -5
300lb boulder.. Maybe you could just google earth it in his backyard haha! LOL! Good one! Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
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Post by QuailRiver on Sept 29, 2014 17:42:34 GMT -5
So I am clear in what you are saying, I should avoid my metal wheels (80gt & 220gt)and start to shape and dome with my first soft resin wheel which I beleive to be 325gt and then work my way up to the 12000gt wheel. Stu Metal wheels are okay to rough Rhodochrosite on, just not the coarse grits. If 220 grit is the finest grit you have in a metal wheel it would probably be okay to start with as long as you use a very lite touch. If you find your 220 too aggressive then you could move on to a finer resin wheel. If you have a lower grade piece of Rhodochrosite than that pretty slab you have pictured then you may want to practice on it first. Larry C.
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