QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 12, 2023 2:05:51 GMT -5
Many years ago ( think it was in the late 1980s or early 90s) Raytech sold out to Lyman Products. Lyman Products is a shooters supply company that wanted the Raytech line of Vibe Tumblers to sell to their customers who do ammo reloading. So they bought the whole Raytech company, including the Poly-Arbor line which Raytech had acquired from Poly Products and added to their line of lapidary equipment back in the late 1970s. Lyman's didn't give a rat's yack about lapidary and discontinued production of several Raytech lapidary machines and the Poly Arbors. Which was a #$%^ shame because those Poly Arbors were among the best made. About 10 or 12 years ago I had a phone conversation with a man there who if I remember correctly was the owner at Lymans about a problem I was having with one of their then-newly outsourced South Korean diamond blades. He seemed clueless and it was nothing short of painful trying to deal with him. Fortunately Lyman's eventually sold the rights to produce the Raytech-Shaw faceting machines to Rick Scott of Scott Enterprises in Littleton, Colorado. Rick is the son of the man who was the original manufacturer of the Raytech-Shaw faceting machine. A few years later Rick acquired the rights to produce the rest of the Raytech lapidary line but at this point as far as I know he is only producing the "45 Jem Saw", the 6" trim saw, the 10" trim/slab saw, the 15" Hustler Vibrating lap, and the Raytech-Shaw faceting machine and accessories. I have dealt with Rick Scott several times over the last 15 years and he has always been friendly and helpful, and has shipped my orders quickly. Rick for the most part runs a one-man-show. He doesn't do a lot of advertising and his web sites are modest. For parts and accessories it's best to email or call him. You can see his saw and vibe lap page, and PDFs of the Owners Manuals of current and a few out of production Raytech machines at this link: rick8260.wixsite.com/raytechsaw...and you can see his Raytech-Shaw Faceting Machine page linked here: raytechshaw.com/
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 7, 2023 19:02:19 GMT -5
For trimming smaller slabs I have a Rock Rascal model "J" that I have had since the early 1980s. I've had both the basic model and the factory mounted motor models of both the Rock Rascal model "J" and model "T". For both I prefer them without the factory mounted motor because the factory motors are mounted too close to the saw. And the saw and motor are both mounted on a sheet steel base. The short belt and the sheet steel base transfer too much vibration to the trim saw.
I mounted my rock Rascal model "J" on a piece of 3/4" countertop laminate and with a 36" belt. These saws use a 1725rpm continuous duty, general purpose motor which is one of the most common fractional motors. It's fairly easy to find used motors this size and new ones aren't very expensive either. So if you decide to go with the Rock Rascal you can save some money and get better performance by getting the basic model without motor or base and then finding a used motor.
Also if it's helpful to your decision the Rock Rascal model "J" uses a water pump bearing with a left-hand threaded arbor that if ever needs to be replaced is easier to just order from Johnson Brothers than trying to find elsewhere. The Rock Rascal model "T" uses roller bearings that are easy to find at most any good industrial machine supplier.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 27, 2023 16:36:27 GMT -5
If you're referring to the 10" Hi-Tech I agree that $1k is way too much money for that saw. And I agree with nik that that saw would be my last choice. Not that is a bad saw but because it won't have the durability and longevity of the other metal housed 10" saws on the market. Plus IMO their vise/carriage system leaves a lot to be desired. I have been involved with lapidary since the early 1970s and over the years have bought and sold a lot of old collections so have had many brands of slab/trim saws (including the Hi-Tech 10" model) . For someone who is mostly going to be sawing soft porous materials like opal and turquoise where using water for a coolant is desirable then the Hi-Tech may be the better choice simply because it is one of the few saws designed to be used exclusively with water. But for harder materials like agates, jasper, petrified wood, etc., you'll be better off using a mineral oil cooled saw. Your blades will last much longer using oil for a coolant when cutting hard materials. And from my experience, one of the best general purpose 10" trim/slab saws ever made is the Raytech 10" slab/trim saw. If I could only have one saw then the Raytech 10" slab/trim saw would be my choice. This design has been in production for five decades so there are plenty of used ones still around that come on the market fairly often. The saws themselves have all been manufactured in the USA and are currently being produced by Scott Enterprises in Littleton, Colorado. So parts are still available if needed. The motors however on the newer models may be imported since very few fractional motors are still being made in the U.S.. But this will be the case for most all brands of lapidary saws currently in production. If taken care of properly these Raytech 10" saws will last indefinitely. I have seen several that were made in the 1970s that were still running. A used one in good ready-to-use condition with good bearings and with the clear Lucite hood present will usually run $600 - $750. If needing bearings, a hood or other parts then adjust to less accordingly. New these saws currently run $1595 from Scotts: rick8260.wixsite.com/raytechsawThere were several other brands of well made 10" slab/trim saws that are no longer in production like Star Diamond, Highland Park (the original company), Texas Rocks (later Polaris), Beacon Star, and Frantom. For the slabbing function some had automatic powerfeed, some weight-feed and some push-feed. If you can find one of any of these saws still in good condition you won't likely go wrong.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 26, 2023 16:59:22 GMT -5
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 17, 2023 19:25:12 GMT -5
Using a gravity feed saw properly is an art form within itself. One I admittedly never mastered so prefer a mechanical power feed system.
Too much weight can make your bearings, arbor and blade wear out faster and can also damage the blade by cupping it. Ideally It's better to start out with less weight and then ad more as needed. Instead of fixed weights try using a plastic milk jug and sand. Keep a bucket of sand, a sand scoop and funnel by your saw to adjust the weight as needed. Start paying close attention to how the saw sounds when slabbing various materials. And you will eventually be able to tell by the sound when the saw is under strain from being feed too quickly from too much weight.
Most mechanical power feed systems for mid-sized saws are designed to travel about 10" to 12" per hour. Which is a safe speed for slabbing most harder materials. So that may be a good speed to shoot for until you get a feel for, and ear for how your saw operates. Then experiment with adjusting the weigh for variuos materials and sizes.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 17, 2023 18:48:53 GMT -5
Also called Clam Chowder Stone. Or as some used to call it - "The Devils Toenails". In it's natural state the matrix is more tan color. This darker material has been heat treated to turn the matrix burnt sienna-ish brown.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 11, 2023 22:20:40 GMT -5
I agree that it is most likely Cripple Creek.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 7, 2023 20:00:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure that spray diamond is going to be the best choice for a spinning leather disc.
The diamond paste, also known as diamond bort, is traditionally diamond in some type of grease. Diamonds cling to grease and grease clings to leather. So it's a good match-up for leather or canvas resin discs/belts.
But the diamond spray is usually just diamond mixed with alcohol and I believe a very thinned oil. While it is used by barbers for sharpening razors and by people sharpening knives on leather strops, in those cases the leather isn't spinning at a high speed. I could be wrong but I suspect the diamond spray won't have enough of a bonding agent to stay on a spinning leather surface for very long. Diamond spray is used in faceting which is done at lower turning speeds than for cabbing and the pressure of the stone being polished against the lap embeds the diamond into the surface of the lap (usually copper, tin or zinc) and once embedded the metal then holds the diamond particles in place.
Another option would be the Pandimonium Universal Base Diastiks made and sold by Gearloose Lapidary. These are diamond in a soft wax binder similar to a soft crayon. These diamond sticks can be used with water or oil as a lubricant. I use the Diastiks for faceting and a little goes a long way. I have never tried these on leather but I do believe that with their wax binder that they may adhere okay to leather. And when the leather needs a little moisture a spritz or two from a small atomizer bottle of a very thin mineral oil like trombone oil would probably do the trick. A lot of faceters including myself use trombone oil as a less expensive alternative to extender fluid.
Also I used to know of a guy that would mix diamond powder with Vaseline to make his own polish for faceting. Vaseline may have enough cling to work on a leather disc. And would not be terribly expensive to make.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 6, 2023 23:45:20 GMT -5
Hi there! I just purchased this same machine in amazing condition. I don’t have to refurb mine but it does need a new belt. I can’t figure out how to get it off the shaft. Do I take apart the whole shaft? If so how? If your bearings are still good then I wouldn't disassemble it. I would cut the old belt to get it off and replace it with a link v-belt. Something similar to this: www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.htmlBut if you do decide to remove the shaft to replace the belt then if it were me I would go ahead and replace the bearings (they are not very expensive) while I had it taken apart. Life is too short to spend any more time than necessary disassembling and reassembling Lortone cabbing machines. ![(brickwall)](//storage.proboards.com/1258779/images/GBSdJpprjaIwsjHALsBD.gif)
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 29, 2022 15:11:04 GMT -5
Let the oil sit without turning the saw on for a day or two to let as much sludge settle as possible. Pump off the top layer of cleaner oil into a bucket without disturbing the sludge. Then pump out as much of the dirty sludge/oil as will pass through the pump and filter it through a brown paper bag. ![](https://i.postimg.cc/fyLRshbG/a.jpg) Then dump enough cat litter into the reservoir to soak up the thicker rock sludge oil and scoop out and throw away the dirty thick dirty litter/sludge. Then wipe out and clean up the inside of the saw reservoir with a terrycloth rag. And your ready to add clean oil and start slabbing again!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 29, 2022 14:50:46 GMT -5
A lot of black onyx is dyed or otherwise treated. So if this is the case with yours then Iron Out might remove even more of the black color. I would suggest just testing a piece or two before soaking the whole batch.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 24, 2022 16:06:48 GMT -5
I have a homemade 10" saw that was part of a collection I bought last spring. It needs some design tweaking. And it will need a new motor (1/4 or 1/3hp enclosed general purpose continuous duty 1725rpms or similar) and will need a new belt. If you want it I will give it to you if you pay the shipping. If interested I'll take some photos early next week after it warms up a little around here. It is a trim saw not a slab saw. It does not have a rock vice and carriage.
Edit: Just went out and looked at the saw and I was mistaken about it being a 10" saw. It is an 8" saw.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 24, 2022 15:51:34 GMT -5
Vance, what area of the country are you in?
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 20, 2022 23:38:15 GMT -5
I ran across a vintage 12" Felker Golden Rimlock blade a while back. I bought it because I had used these blades before and they were good blades. But I didn't notice until I got it home that it had a 1/2" arbor hole and it was not bushed to 1/2" as I would have expected. It was bored 1/2". I was wondering if anyone knows which vintage saw brand made a 12" saw with a 1/2" arbor? Maybe Spartan or an early model Covington? Anyone know?
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 20, 2022 20:38:06 GMT -5
Careful using transformer oil, It used to contain PCBs (I think) anyway carcinogenic whatever it was. I use mineral oil, I find where I am generic brand baby oil is cheaper than horse laxative. My rocks come out smelling of roses too. I filter it with a bit of flannelette shirt , though a pillowslip works just as well. PCBs were banned from transformer oils over 40 years ago. I believe it was in the 1970s. Once it was realized that those transformers were leaking toxins into the road ditches that ran into the waterways they made them start using more environmentally friendly mineral oils. So unless some old lapidary's estate still has a 50 year old drum of the old oil still sitting around it shouldn't be a concern these days.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 18, 2022 14:00:36 GMT -5
Back in the day, for black backing material, a fossilized wood material "Jet" was often used as backing for opal doublets and triplets. Jet was near the same hardness as opal so was a good choice. I used to see Jet rough pieces and thin slices all the time at shows but it doesn't seem to be nearly as common now.
For Turquoise 78 LP records were often used. They were a little thicker than the 33 LPs. Just glue a piece of a broken LP to a relatively flattened back of a piece of turquoise and grind the cabs pre-form shape. When JB Weld and Devcon became available those were used for backing as well. Especially for pitted or uneven back surfaces of turquoise. One would have to be careful using anything that heats the turquoise. Natural turquoise can loose it's color if gotten too hot. And any turquoise stabilized with resin doesn't like being heated too warm either.
For everything else black onyx, black nephrite and black basanite were the most commonly used black backing materials. Not sure how available it is these days but black Wyoming nephrite was fairly common and inexpensive back then. The Wyoming material had a beautiful fine grain as well.
These days as someone else mentioned black glass is sometimes used for backing. And clear sheet glass has been being used commercially as capping material on opal doublets and triplets made overseas since at least the 1980s. But most glass scratches more easily than quartz. So for ring stones or bracelet stones, IMO quartz is the better choice. Natural clear quartz is easy to find but you usually have to work around fractures, veils and other impurities. Large synthetic lab grown quartz boules are much cleaner and used to be fairly common at shows too. But I don't see those around much anymore. You can still find optical quartz (glass) rods though.
And I remember that there used to be a company which produced iridescent ammolite doublets using clear synthetic spinel for the caps. Spinel has a MOHS hardness of 8 so it is tougher than quartz and ideal for ring stones that are subjected to a lot of wear and abuse.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 17, 2022 23:32:18 GMT -5
Yes I have some. I believe mine was from Arkansas or maybe Alabama. I haven't cabbed any of it but it can be cabbed.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 12, 2022 21:46:45 GMT -5
The one on right looks like nipomo marcasite. And blue one does look like dyed crazy lace but never seen any dyed crazy lace before I believe you are correct on both - Nipomo Marcasite and dyed Crazy Lace. Dyed Crazy Lace was a thing for a while at the shows back in the 1970s. I think I still have a slab of dyed blue Crazy Lace I acquired around 1973 if I remember correctly.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 9, 2022 17:54:16 GMT -5
99.99% sure it's Coprolite. And a mighty fine one at that! I bought a large chunk with identical colors but not as spectacular pattern out of a very old collection several years ago. It was identified by label as being from the Henry Mountains, Utah.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 7, 2022 9:46:56 GMT -5
I agree there has to be some decent deals on ebay if not at your local thrift store on some piece of hardware. Also a vote for staying away from 3000 rpm for various reasons.
THis particuluar motor is labeled ccw, it may be reversible, but believe that's the wrong direction for the LS-10/St-10.? Yes this motor is reversible. The label shows "CCW REV". So it's set up from the factory to be CCW but can be reversed by switching the wires.
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