rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 27, 2021 10:06:41 GMT -5
In my first post I tagged Michael Miller (mjflinty). He is an archaeologist specializing in Native American culture and artifacts. He should be able to identify both of them for us. Good news for me while I was searching that link that I posted - I found out that a piece of deer antler that I found a few years ago back here at Edisto Beach SC is actually an antler atlatl weight. Fixing to look for a photo of it and will post it right here. Never could figure out why a piece of antler would have a hole in it. Have found many artifacts here and a lady actually found a Clovis point last year. A hole has been drilled through this deer antler by humans - great find. Very interesting item there & awesome to ID it! Definitely would've assumed it was a dart shaft straightener myself. After reading your post, checked out the website that you linked again & read that those antler atlatl weights were used in places like FL (& SC), where less stone is available. I can relate to that, always lament the shortage of stone on the S.E. U.S. coastal plain. On SC beaches, I usually resort to collecting those thick, many layered blue & white shell pieces (fossilized? IDK) & although most of it is full of holes, hope to find a nice piece one day that's solid enough to carve a cameo. Just checked out some threads with your found artifiacts rickb, very impressive, what an array of finds you have!! & thanks for tagging in a professional, will be cool to see what he says.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 26, 2021 22:47:33 GMT -5
While there's experts around, now that I'm thinking about it, here's another artifact that I've been meaning to ask about. At least I think it's an artifact. It has a very smoothed, hand worn feeling & it would be an extremely unusual shape for natural rock. Found this in the same exact place, few years back. It's chert/flint. My best guess is something like a spear-shaft straightener. Also find that it fits into the hand perfectly, like a trigger. As you can see in the pictures, it's 'curved' lengthwise, it has one side which sits flush/carved into the fingers while the other side is convex. & a bonus pic of moss agate just cut, from the same place.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 26, 2021 22:37:25 GMT -5
Indeed, a pair would be awesome! Never know, might find the 2nd one day . Yup, while it came to mind, as a person who has made a fair number of friction fires from self-made tools, the flat/thin top part wouldn't really make practical sense. Would it be more apropos to say "keep your ear out for the other one" rather than saying keep an eye out for it! LOL My father-in-law has a lot of farm/ranch land...and I mean A LOT! LOL - He has quite a collection of arrowheads and some spearheads he's found on his property over the years. I'm fascinated with the uncovering of ancient tools and artifacts...just thinking of how many eons it's been buried and waiting to feel the touch of another human's hands. And just to think of what the world was like when these were created and being used when they were "new". Hahaha, good point 👂😂. Absolutely, & I easily & happily drift into imagining being there amongst ancient times in these places. Fantasizing about the fish, game, wildlife which was there especially 😅🎣. That sounds fantastic on your Father-I.L's ranchland! South Dakota has so much great rock!
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 26, 2021 21:33:42 GMT -5
That is really cool! RickB's guess had me doing some image searches on Google and it certainly seems plausible. Now if you had only found a match to complete the pair it would have made identifying it much easier! I did some reading on the fire starters, too. It looks like soft stones were used for those, but I did not see any shapes that matched as well as the ear spool's that came up in the search. Indeed, a pair would be awesome! Never know, might find the 2nd one day . Yup, while it came to mind, as a person who has made a fair number of friction fires from self-made tools, the flat/thin top part wouldn't really make practical sense.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 26, 2021 21:27:33 GMT -5
Wow RickB, That would be wild! Thanks for that 🙏. While I was searching for lookalike artifacts by google search, I did see that ear spools (along with war club heads), were both similarly shaped items, but did assume it was way too big for the ears... Quite some weight to it. I would guess that it was created by the Shawnee tribe, and historical portraits do so often show ear ornaments & lobe stretching from the Shawnee. The area where it was found seems like a an ideal village-or even ancient city site. An example of Shawnee ear work, a collage of portraits from the internet, at least two of the men having been Chiefs. Jasoninsd: I have been super curious! Checked out your tongue-rock thread there, beautiful patterns! Would make a cool carving. I liked how you can see the same pattern from the top through the opening on the other side 👍. RickB - Great thought on the ear spool! That wouldn't have occurred to me. I was onboard with the war club idea, but this really does have the look! rockhoundoz - have you found many other artifacts from the general location where you found this one? I really need to get that darn tongue-rock down to the local college to have the geology department make a final decision on what that thing is! LOL Jasoninsd, at that area, I have found a couple arrowheads (one broken & one intact), & a ton of cores (the remaining center of a flint/chert etc. rock which had tools flaked off of it), plus debitage. However, I'm always hunting rocks & only find artifacts on the surface, coincidentally. This area has had truckloads of artifacts removed & wouldn't be surprised if this was one of many locations of this area where mounds had been located & subsequently bulldozed/razed. Hope the tongue-rock is some cool fossil, but it's neat looking anyhow 😎. Rickb, got it, so soapstone would be even heavier. After checking out the great website that you linked, it brings to mind that this could be a much older artifact- perhaps Hopewell, or older. From this exact spot, a friend has found pieces including a large spear-head, which were identified as 'paleoindian', super old, including on the basis of the much finer craftsmanship. Tools are always more well made in the good-old-days I reckon 😉.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 26, 2021 19:32:32 GMT -5
rockhoundoz It looks to me like a Native American ear spool. Some were small and some were very large. I saw a pair bought at a local bottle show a few years ago and was surprised by the size of them. A rare find, congratulations. I bet mjflintycan chime in on this one. "The history of body modification is as long as human history itself. People from various cultures and time periods throughout the world have stretched their earlobes because the cartilage of the ear has adequate strength to hold up large pieces of jewelry placed in pierced and stretched earlobes. We think of stretching a modern practice but it has actually been a tradition for many cultures for thousands of years." Wow RickB, That would be wild! Thanks for that 🙏. While I was searching for lookalike artifacts by google search, I did see that ear spools (along with war club heads), were both similarly shaped items, but did assume it was way too big for the ears... Quite some weight to it. I would guess that it was created by the Shawnee tribe, and historical portraits do so often show ear ornaments & lobe stretching from the Shawnee. The area where it was found seems like a an ideal village-or even ancient city site. An example of Shawnee ear work, a collage of portraits from the internet, at least two of the men having been Chiefs. Jasoninsd: I have been super curious! Checked out your tongue-rock thread there, beautiful patterns! Would make a cool carving. I liked how you can see the same pattern from the top through the opening on the other side 👍.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 26, 2021 13:20:52 GMT -5
Here's an artifact that I recently found in Kentucky stream gravels (on the surface), from a location with lots of arrowheads/cores etc. As you can see, it's girdled/ grooved all the way around, roughly oval (2.5" x 2"), concave on one face & flat on the other. I had a few initial thoughts on what it could be used for, primarily as a belt/cord driven tool (firestarting, grinding, or even to process sinew fibers). Shape wise, it looks like a match for groove-wrap war-club heads, but then it's made of soft stone. Or, maybe an early groove-wrapped pendant 😋. Any ideas? Thanks for looking!
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Jan 24, 2021 19:10:59 GMT -5
Another factor in the old-stock nostalgia could be material from locations that were closed to collecting some time ago. Locations closed when Death Valley became a National Park for instance, a lot of cave formation stuff, much more limited collecting of dino bone due to rule changes etc.
Since no(or much less) new material is available, it doesn't directly apply to the original question, but I think it 'colors' people perception of old-stock, towards the mythical 🦖
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 30, 2020 22:45:23 GMT -5
Monumental masons (AKA gravestone makers) have really large saws, but they have a wide kerf, They don't care about a bit of wastage when slicing a Granite boulder. Also check around for companies that cut stones for building facades and bench tops. I have a 46Kg Agate that has been sitting in my garden for nearly 20 years waiting on a decision about cutting it. Procrastination, not me. Excellent suggestions, thank you! As long as it's less than a 1/4" kerf (😉), I believe this agate can handle it. But like yourself, I will most likely chaw on the possibilities a while while taking it all in.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 30, 2020 22:33:38 GMT -5
In Peru a hole in a canoe was simply packed with clay. Cramming plastic bags in the hole works well. Beautiful scenery, that water is of cool color. Amazing treasure trip with a great mission. This is my small fast water tributary exploration boat. I use it for petrified coral. It can carry 600 pounds of rock. 400 pounds and a passenger. The jon boat is a cheap thin wall aluminum rig that is light weight for dragging up small falls and rapids, over dead falls. The Go Devil motor tackles rapids 4 inches deep and deeper. I often take it 3 hours upstream, about 15 miles to locations rarely visited at low river levels where the unseen treasures can be found in the river basin. Return trip downstream takes half as much time. Sometimes having to toss 'ballast'(ouch) to make it back. I have towed a string of up to 4 kayaks occupied with kayakers. Outstanding!! That rig looks like it's own variety o perfection right there. Primed for an array of harvest & collecting work on our waterways 😎🎣. Lots of 1 to 2inch water & long straight up exposed gravel bars on the 93lber trip, lotta dragging the kayak, but when that water is up I'd say there are class 4 rapids amongst the sharp limestone boulders/carved bedrock. Absolutely woulda slapped a patch/plug on that hole had I known the hole was there in the field. With the giant agate & gear loaded right over the hole on the back of the boat, it was all I could manage to lift the kayak & drain half of the water from the hull plug every 15 minutes or so. We were racing to make it to the take-out before pitch dark, as the temps dropped into the 20's ❄. The float took longer than anticipated due to my half submerged boat slowing us all down, lol. Long way of saying I was too rushed & soaked to get the kayak upside down & I had assumed the water was entering the hull via fishing rod holder & "dry-cargo" stowage gaps, which had plagued me on prior trips (I sealed them with silicone eventually but figured it cracked). I too have tossed 'ballast' 😭- wasn't an option to me on this day. Nearly sank the same kayak once, in the middle of an icy New Mexico mountain lake, during a sudden gale, due to said accessory hole leakage (good imagery) before sealing. One of the rocks that went overboard was a nodule showing veins of brilliant red agate, which I later realized was a thunder-egg. That rock still haunts me as a friendly ghost when eyes are closed. Dropped it below accidently, as I was frenzied /fight or flight to escape going down & throwing the bigger rocks over. Once patched a large 3 or 4" cypress knee hole in a canoe 10 miles into Congaree N.P. swamp backcountry with a boat full of Nova Scotians (people-but I hear the agates are quite fine too). Used soft plastic fishing lures melted by bic lighter & dripped /formed it onto both sides of the hole. Worked like a charm & used that canoe w/ said patch multiple time after. I'm a big fan of the GA/FL fossil coral & did read/was a fan of one of your posts on the subject 👍👍. Here's my current fast camp rig with the custom $15 2x4 kayak rack I built ontop 😋.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 29, 2020 18:13:20 GMT -5
Very sweet! I'm very practiced at smashing the "good parts" of Teepees... Whatever you decide to do I'm watching this one with interest.
Hehe, ahh, those teepees very fine indeed, those distal cousins of KY agates from ancient sea. & I completely understand the passions & trials which lead to smashing results 😅. Jasoninsd: glad you can see it too - the throne of the dragon egg 👑. Fernwood: thanks, & I did dream about the thing nightly during "the separation" 😂
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 27, 2020 15:50:39 GMT -5
Libbie: First, you are either heat proof, or pretty tough to be doing the sunstone area in summer. It will be hot, so take plenty of water, and some kind of portable shade like a camping sun shelter. Now, when I say find colour, what i mean is when you start finding sunstone that is not just clear like glass. Red, is the best, also the most rare. Sunstone with shiller is also good, and will make outstanding faceted stones. The 'shiller' looks like finely divided grains of bright copper in a layer in the stone. You may have to turn the stone over in your hand to see this, and when cut, it must be cut so the shiller layer is parallel with the top. Once you have found an area with promise i.e. you find a lot of good colour, or shiller. You start digging. You will go through dirt for a while, then hit rock (basalt) The basalt has lots of cracks, so you just exploit them with a pick, wedges, and a big bar. When you break through the rock there will be a layer of yellowish sand under it. this is "paydirt" where you will find the most, and best stones. They have weathered out of the baslat where they formed. As you remove the basalt, you will see sunstone embedded in the rock.........no use trying to remove it, you will just break it. Sieve everything you dig out that will sieve. Quarter inch hardware cloth makes the best sieve, The frame can be 1 X 4 pine, and about 12 X 18 or a wee bit larger if you will be shaking by hand. You can go larger if you have a frame like a table with out a top to slide it back and forth on. Remember..........those who sieve the most dirt get the most stones. If, you get lucky, you may find where some one else has broken through the basalt, and then, you can dig the hole out, and enlarge it...........do not tunnel under the basalt. It will bury you when it falls. Woody Thanks for this excellent guidance! I've dug a time or 2 on the BLM area without great success (just wasted time messing w/ the hard rock) & now know why!
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 27, 2020 15:48:24 GMT -5
Display. How many 93 lb. KY agates are in captivity, and whole. Yah, true enough. It is one cool dragon's egg as is. Whether cut or not, I thought would look great set into an upside-down display stump where the roots would hold the agate. I also considered grinding/carving it into a huge classic chicken-egg shape but that would take forever.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 27, 2020 15:42:42 GMT -5
I see President Trump re elected, perfect That's really funny Toiv0, president trump was the first thing I saw in that face too! It's the lips & the hair mostly but the whole profile is pretty well spot-on 😋. I'll digress there from politics as I always support every president (that's one tough job), even when I don't agree politically . But the fact that we both independently saw that, maybe I'll try putting it up on ebay as the miraculous trump slab - could get a good price right before the election like this, lol.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 27, 2020 15:38:27 GMT -5
Confirmation that I'm crazy? LOL. I'll attempt to outline it when I get a little time.
Okay, here goes. I used thin lines to point out the eyes, not draw all over them. Once you see the eyes, you see the face.
King with crown, anguished/condemned person right in front of him.
I can't draw very well with a regular mouse...
Cool! After seeing your king, surprised I didn't see it earlier. Hehe, I reckon we're all at least a tiny bit 'rock-raving mad' in this hobby 😁- but for the record, I thought you were suggesting it was my 'dancing pair' that was bonkers- which I cannot necessarily disagree 😅. Also, the chest/shoulders/back of the king make up the shell of the crab . JasoninSD: good point! I'll go with that 😜. Inbtb: The dog looks friendly to me, but I'm a dog guy so... Fossilman: Thanks , I only show off the ones that I find interesting, so many dozens & dozens of plain ones cut to get a special one! Stephan: thanks! Yes, while I can't quite find the easter bunny, those pastel yellow & pinkish/purplish ones also remind me of Easter! & the red & green ones always of christmas, haha.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 25, 2020 10:56:29 GMT -5
Oooo-kaaay... If you say so. 😂, guess we don't know how crazy we are until ya start Rorschaching yrself on every day objects 🤭 Inbtb: interesting, sounds to what rockpickerforever had seen re the king with a crown, maybe?
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 25, 2020 10:50:01 GMT -5
Awesome haul. Love to see it cut. Concrete saw to make manageable for 24" sounds like a good idea I think so too, at least should be able to cut a smaller half off the thing & get that faced in the 24"er. Then, if it had a worthy pattern, I could wait for a 36" one to get a couple slabs & face on the bigger half 👍. Plus, it sounds like fun with the concrete saw 😎. & Fishnpinball: thanks! It was mostly a lot of fun on the adventure, well worth the effort : ).
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 25, 2020 10:46:04 GMT -5
Excellent trip report. Thanks for sharing your adventure! Looks like a great rock and I'm looking forward to seeing what the inside looks like.
Have you ever considered feathers and wedges to split it?
Thank you, thank you, it's definitely 'the one' rock in my collection most beckoning to be put to the saw : ). & yes, I have inspected it & considered splitting it with wedges, chisels etc at great length. There are basically 3 common 'textures' of KY nodules, 1st, the type full of fractures in every direction, brittle, that smash into a hundred pieces with any force at all. 2nd, the type with a few fractures- usually running all the way through lengthwise or 'equatorial' so to speak, those ones often split perfectly down the middle with little effort. 3rd are the really solid/dense ones with very fibrous & tough nature and little to no fractures. I think this nodule fits the 3rd category. I can't see any fractures at all of note on the surface & based on where & how it has chipped- I imagine one could bang on it for days and only get sprayed with high-velocity shrapnel for the effort 😋. I have successfully split a few dozen large nodules & geodes that way, but only succeeded with the ones thay have clear fracture lines. With breaking in that way one also risks destroying the best part of the pattern in the middle. Many KY nodules have only like a 1/2" thickness of the prime pattern floating in the middle. Here's pics of an example of this. I posted this agate in the saws & slabs forum, but here's a few more images showing how my breaking it in the field (with great force I might add- even w/ this small one) destroyed any chance of getting a slab or flat face cut on the agate. It broke unevenly along the best part - & the cuts I was able to make afterwards, just to either side of the 'sweet spot' had lesser pattern/more calcite plug etc... That slab was the only decent cut I walked away with due to the break. Now I realize one would think that with the 93lb-er, it would have a much thicker pattern band- well- not necessarily, KY's are odd like that.
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rockhoundoz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2017
Posts: 131
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Post by rockhoundoz on Oct 25, 2020 10:28:28 GMT -5
Are you really, really sure you want to cut it? Indeed, I am positive that I want to cut it - if I can find a properly sized saw. Otherwise, I'm still reflecting on whether I'd risk hacking it apart through other methods, heh. Do you ask because you think it's a cool display piece as is? Or do you know of somewhere to have it cut?
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