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Post by therockapprentice on Nov 27, 2022 15:55:41 GMT -5
Hello everyone. I am hoping someone can help me identify why my new Home Made Tumbler is creating metal grinding fragments from my 1/2” metal rods. The metal filings can be seen in the one close up photo next to the pillow block, below the 1/2” rod. This is only happening with the right front pillow block and the right rear pillow-block. My apologies for not posting pictures of the construction of my tumbler. I built it over the summer and I have already changed the original design a bit to get to the current model. I have found the many designs on this forum to be a big help as well as the YouTube videos explaining their design. I have actually had this problem with a couple of different designs (always on the right side for some reason) and after finding the metal filings I removed the rod and found that the rod had been ground down a bit. I am assuming that the metal set screws in the pillow block are grinding it down, but I don’t understand why. I purchased the 1/2 inch rods from Lowes and Menards (same manufacturer) but I have no way of telling if they are straight or possibly out of round for some reason. I am wondering if anyone else had this happen with their homemade tumblers as well and if there was a way to fix it or whether I should just possibly ignore it. I used locking collars on the rods as well as the set screws in the pillow blocks and I have not noticed the rod moving at all. Oh and one really important question….how often should I be lubricating the pillow blocks? I have a grease gun with lithium grease but I have no idea how often I should be adding grease. Any suggestions on that would be great. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
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hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2022
Posts: 253
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Post by hoolligan1938 on Nov 27, 2022 18:09:08 GMT -5
Well let me start off by saying I'm not a machinist. Obviously something is amiss here. Could the pillow blocks be out of square with the rods? Could the rods be slightly larger or smaller than the block openings? If you disconnect the belts and pulleys will the shafts turn freely or can you feel or hear a binding? Just out of curiosity, can you just slightly loosen the pillow blocks so you can minutely move them and see if the shaft turns freely? Check your pulleys too and make sure they are in good alignment with each other and not out of round. From there, if the problem still exists, try eliminating one piece at a time to see if you can find the problem, ie set screws, rod stops, collars etc.. Hope this can help you.
Jim
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Post by parfive on Nov 27, 2022 20:23:12 GMT -5
1. Probably not the problem, Tom, but . . . What’s the point of the locking collars when there are set screws on the bearings?
2. What happens if you remove the belt on the far right and just drive the two long shafts?
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Post by therockapprentice on Nov 27, 2022 21:52:57 GMT -5
Well let me start off by saying I'm not a machinist. Obviously something is amiss here. Could the pillow blocks be out of square with the rods? Could the rods be slightly larger or smaller than the block openings? If you disconnect the belts and pulleys will the shafts turn freely or can you feel or hear a binding? Just out of curiosity, can you just slightly loosen the pillow blocks so you can minutely move them and see if the shaft turns freely? Check your pulleys too and make sure they are in good alignment with each other and not out of round. From there, if the problem still exists, try eliminating one piece at a time to see if you can find the problem, ie set screws, rod stops, collars etc.. Hope this can help you. Jim Thanks Jim, I will try some of these things tomorrow and get back to you. I appreciate you taking the time to help.
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Post by therockapprentice on Nov 27, 2022 21:57:49 GMT -5
1. Probably not the problem, Tom, but . . . What’s the point of the locking collars when there are set screws on the bearings? 2. What happens if you remove the belt on the far right and just drive the two long shafts? I believe the locking collars are there in case the set screws on the pillow block loosen. I had this happen on my first model that didn’t have locking collars and I found the rod had moved almost 1/2”. I also noticed on most of the home made tumblers they had them, so I just assumed that I needed them. So far the locking collars have never loosened but the pillow block set screws keep loosening. I will try removing the belt on my first model I tried driving only once shaft and I could not get the other shaft to turn.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Nov 27, 2022 22:56:23 GMT -5
Use blue removable thread locker Loctite #243 on the setscrews. Are your pillowblocks self-aligning or rigid, I can't tell from the pictures, self-aligning pillowblocks allow the bearing to swivel a little in the housing, curing slight misalignment problems. Rigid bearing pillowblocks need near perfect alignment to work without some binding, which would likely cause the problem you are having. If you run the tumbler near all the time, give the bearings a shot of grease every 2-3 months. P.S. That is a nice looking build.
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Post by therockapprentice on Nov 28, 2022 20:14:41 GMT -5
Use blue removable thread locker Loctite #243 on the setscrews. Are your pillowblocks self-aligning or rigid, I can't tell from the pictures, self-aligning pillowblocks allow the bearing to swivel a little in the housing, curing slight misalignment problems. Rigid bearing pillowblocks need near perfect alignment to work without some binding, which would likely cause the problem you are having. If you run the tumbler near all the time, give the bearings a shot of grease every 2-3 months. P.S. That is a nice looking build. Thanks for the compliment and recommendations, especially when to grease the bearings, that helps a lot. The pillow blocks are tritan UCP series and website says they are self aligning. I have a feeling that the set screws have ground down some of the 1/2” metal rod and when I went to tighten them a little tighter it seemed to make the rod spin awkwardly. When I loosened the screws it seem to run smoother. So for now, I have loosened the set screws on the pillow block but kept the locking collars set and tight. The collars never seem to loosen, but I will keep checking them and make sure nothing moves. Thanks again for the advice.
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Post by therockapprentice on Nov 28, 2022 20:40:03 GMT -5
Well let me start off by saying I'm not a machinist. Obviously something is amiss here. Could the pillow blocks be out of square with the rods? Could the rods be slightly larger or smaller than the block openings? If you disconnect the belts and pulleys will the shafts turn freely or can you feel or hear a binding? Just out of curiosity, can you just slightly loosen the pillow blocks so you can minutely move them and see if the shaft turns freely? Check your pulleys too and make sure they are in good alignment with each other and not out of round. From there, if the problem still exists, try eliminating one piece at a time to see if you can find the problem, ie set screws, rod stops, collars etc.. Hope this can help you. Jim Thanks Jim, I will try some of these things tomorrow and get back to you. I appreciate you taking the time to help. Jim, I removed the pulleys and the rod turns freely but doesn’t spin like a roller skate. None of the pillow blocks spin loosely they just turn smoothly. There was no resistance in the pillow block or noise but it seemed that it turned smooth for most of the 360 degrees but seem kluncky? For about 30 of the 360 degrees. I tried tightening the set screws down and it made it worse. I notice that the whole pillow block wanted to raise up off the wood base (just slightly). When I loosened the set screws completely it went back to a smooth full 360 degree turn and BOTH rod and pillow block bearing turned. I have a feeling that the set screws have ground down some of the 1/2” metal rod. So for now, I have loosened the set screws on the pillow blocks but kept the locking collars set and tight. The collars never seem to loosen, but I will keep checking them and make sure nothing moves. I am planning to load up a tumble this weekend and I will see if there is any further grinding. If not, I may just replace the rod as I have extra pieces from construction and try running without the set screws. I must say that I have no experience at all with making or operating things like this, so it is all a bit of guesswork on my part. Thanks again for your help.
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hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2022
Posts: 253
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Post by hoolligan1938 on Nov 29, 2022 11:03:19 GMT -5
Glad to hear that you found the problem, at least it sounds like you have solved the problem. Since you have the collars installed, I wonder if you need the set screws. Just a thought. Keep us posted on how things work out with your changes.
Jim
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 29, 2022 11:17:27 GMT -5
Thanks Jim, I will try some of these things tomorrow and get back to you. I appreciate you taking the time to help. Jim, I removed the pulleys and the rod turns freely but doesn’t spin like a roller skate. None of the pillow blocks spin loosely they just turn smoothly. There was no resistance in the pillow block or noise but it seemed that it turned smooth for most of the 360 degrees but seem kluncky? For about 30 of the 360 degrees. I tried tightening the set screws down and it made it worse. I notice that the whole pillow block wanted to raise up off the wood base (just slightly). When I loosened the set screws completely it went back to a smooth full 360 degree turn and BOTH rod and pillow block bearing turned. I have a feeling that the set screws have ground down some of the 1/2” metal rod. So for now, I have loosened the set screws on the pillow blocks but kept the locking collars set and tight. The collars never seem to loosen, but I will keep checking them and make sure nothing moves. I am planning to load up a tumble this weekend and I will see if there is any further grinding. If not, I may just replace the rod as I have extra pieces from construction and try running without the set screws. I must say that I have no experience at all with making or operating things like this, so it is all a bit of guesswork on my part. Thanks again for your help. Now that you have loosened the bearing set screws, are the bearings still turning or just the shaft inside of the hardened bearing collar? If loosening them changes things I wonder if the shaft size is a lot smaller than the ID of the bearings. That can happen if you use regular round stock instead of ground to size shafting, and the hardened bearing center may be machining it even smaller. Perhaps retighten them all, loosen the pillow block to base bolts enough so they can move, and turn it all by hand and look for them to move.
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Post by therockapprentice on Nov 29, 2022 19:53:03 GMT -5
Jim, I removed the pulleys and the rod turns freely but doesn’t spin like a roller skate. None of the pillow blocks spin loosely they just turn smoothly. There was no resistance in the pillow block or noise but it seemed that it turned smooth for most of the 360 degrees but seem kluncky? For about 30 of the 360 degrees. I tried tightening the set screws down and it made it worse. I notice that the whole pillow block wanted to raise up off the wood base (just slightly). When I loosened the set screws completely it went back to a smooth full 360 degree turn and BOTH rod and pillow block bearing turned. I have a feeling that the set screws have ground down some of the 1/2” metal rod. So for now, I have loosened the set screws on the pillow blocks but kept the locking collars set and tight. The collars never seem to loosen, but I will keep checking them and make sure nothing moves. I am planning to load up a tumble this weekend and I will see if there is any further grinding. If not, I may just replace the rod as I have extra pieces from construction and try running without the set screws. I must say that I have no experience at all with making or operating things like this, so it is all a bit of guesswork on my part. Thanks again for your help. Now that you have loosened the bearing set screws, are the bearings still turning or just the shaft inside of the hardened bearing collar? If loosening them changes things I wonder if the shaft size is a lot smaller than the ID of the bearings. That can happen if you use regular round stock instead of ground to size shafting, and the hardened bearing center may be machining it even smaller. Perhaps retighten them all, loosen the pillow block to base bolts enough so they can move, and turn it all by hand and look for them to move. Thank you for the suggestions. The shaft and bearings are turning even though the set screws are loosened. I have not started tumbling since loosening but plan to load a barrel this weekend and I will watch it to see if for some reason the rod starts to turn loose in the bearing shaft. I like your suggestion of tightening the set screws and loosening the pillow block mounting screws. I will try that this weekend as well. Thanks again for the suggestions it is much appreciated.
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