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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 2, 2022 8:46:23 GMT -5
So I have been doing this for 6 yrs now. I do not do them on a regular basis though so maybe 40-50 finished pieces. This piece I made yesterday is a good representation of the scope of my work. Fit and solder the bezel wire to match the stone Sand both sides of the soldered bezel wire to make sure it is even all the way around (the edge that meets the back plate) cut a rough piece for the backplate then solder the bezel to that trim the excess backplate with shears then file flush Sand the entire bezel from rough to ultra fine to be sure the bezel is 100% good Form the bail Solder the bail to the backplate Set the stone using bezel pusher and bezel knives file and sand any marks left form setting the stone buffing compound then red rouge polish the entire piece Using a rotary tool and cotton buff Tumble in stainless steel shot Photograph and make listing Not including the time spent in the pickle pot I think I spent a solid two hours on this piece. The cab is 3/4 x 1 for reference. I fully think of this work as a skilled trade that not many can do or have the tools to do but it seems nobody is willing to pay for that. If I value the cab at $15, The silver and supplies at $7 and then add two hrs labor at a very low 20 per hour I am at $62. So the only variable is how long it takes to make the piece. I can't charge more just because I am slow If this piece only takes a seasoned silversmith one hour to complete then that is what my labor time should be set to in order to charge the proper amount. Then again someone that has that much experience may set their labor rate much higher which would make it a wash in the end. My question is less about a fair price and more about how long this pendant would take you to get a similar result  Chuck |
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 2, 2022 10:56:24 GMT -5
I think that seems like a reasonable amount of time spent, but I’ve never clocked myself. I also think that’s a reasonable price point, have you had the same luck with different stones? I make a lot of pudding stone jewelry because it is all self hounded and being a local favorite it sells well. I do work with all varieties of stones though.     Chuck |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Dec 2, 2022 22:52:06 GMT -5
Chuck, 2 hrs. is reasonable to me.
A couple of things:
1. Why are you sanding both sides of the bezel wire? I usually just sand the bottom down on some sandpaper to make sure it's even before I solder it to the base plate. Seems like you're doing some extra work you don't need to do.
2. Sanding the bezel after you have it soldered to the back place through all of those steps seems to be more extra work to me. I do all of my construction and set the stone before I start any finishing work. I'll clean up the inside of setting before I set the stone, but that's it.
3. Why are you tumbling the finished piece after you have it all finished?
I believe I read in another post that you are using a Foredom for all your polishing? Consider buying a small polishing lathe for your polishing. Using a flex shaft to do it takes way more time than a polishing lathe. After my piece is set, I go to my polisher and use either bobbing compound or tripoli to remove any imperfections and fire scale if I have any. Give it a good scrub and then go and use rouge for final polish. Give it another good scrub and throw it in the ultrasonic to remove any residue I missed. Actually, with all the steps you do, 2 hours seems like great time to me.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 3, 2022 9:09:15 GMT -5
Chuck, 2 hrs. is reasonable to me. A couple of things: 1. Why are you sanding both sides of the bezel wire? I usually just sand the bottom down on some sandpaper to make sure it's even before I solder it to the base plate. Seems like you're doing some extra work you don't need to do. 2. Sanding the bezel after you have it soldered to the back place through all of those steps seems to be more extra work to me. I do all of my construction and set the stone before I start any finishing work. I'll clean up the inside of setting before I set the stone, but that's it. 3. Why are you tumbling the finished piece after you have it all finished? I believe I read in another post that you are using a Foredom for all your polishing? Consider buying a small polishing lathe for your polishing. Using a flex shaft to do it takes way more time than a polishing lathe. After my piece is set, I go to my polisher and use either bobbing compound or tripoli to remove any imperfections and fire scale if I have any. Give it a good scrub and then go and use rouge for final polish. Give it another good scrub and throw it in the ultrasonic to remove any residue I missed. Actually, with all the steps you do, 2 hours seems like great time to me. Thanks for taking time to respond. All valid points. I have never actually seen anyone else do one in person so I am sure I have developed some bad habits along the way. I cut my stones with a girdle height that is exact for the small overlap of bezel that I like so I have never had to sand a bezel down to get the height right. So that is why I sand both sides early on. Just in case there is the slightest of miss match during that solder. I do not want a tiny step in the top of the bezel. No big deal there though that only takes a few seconds. I started with wire wrapping before getting into this and tumbling in stainless shot is carry over from that. I guess my thought process is that it is an easy way to do a final clean and make sure no polish or cotton buff fiber are left lingering. This step is not labor intensive so skipping it really would not save any time. The lathe could be a time saver for sure. More accessories for the foredom would really help too. Quick change collets and a better variety of bits. I have always done my smithing on pendant at a time and that is what I prefer but yesterday I had two ready to go so I did them together. That was a huge time saver. Got both done in 2.5 hours. Thanks again Chuck |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Dec 3, 2022 13:40:11 GMT -5
2 pendants in 2.5 hours sounds reasonable to me, but your 2 hours on one pendant isn't out of bounds for the time that I sometimes spend. Just a couple of thoughts... • Fit and solder the bezel wire to match the stone — I smear a thin layer of red sticky wax near the edge of my bench, and then twist and force the stone onto it. The stone stays securely enough so that I can focus on fitting the bezel without holding the stone. I think that having the stone stationary saves me some time here.
• trim the excess backplate with shears then file flush — I think you might be faster than me here. Maybe not. I run a sharpie around the solder joint so that it's easy to see, then I saw off the excess backplate as close to the bezel as I dare. I also like the look of a flush backplate, so we're both putting in extra filing and finishing time on that. The thought of using shears makes me imagine distorted backplates and/or bezels.
• file and sand any marks left form setting the stone — I hammer set my stones, but I still need to remove setting marks. I use pumice wheels in my Foredom. They remove all the marks and the surface finish is usually fine enough to go directly to a pink (fine) abrasive wheel. No files needed.
Yes, get a polishing machine. I don't tumble anything.
• Photograph and make listing — With that included in your total time I think that you're doing well.
Nice work!!
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brotherbill
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2018
Posts: 329
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Post by brotherbill on Dec 3, 2022 18:15:03 GMT -5
Very nice work!
Fabricating a finished bezel set pendant in 2 hours is a very good pace.
In my market $75 would be a fair price for artisan made.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 3, 2022 21:15:58 GMT -5
2 pendants in 2.5 hours sounds reasonable to me, but your 2 hours on one pendant isn't out of bounds for the time that I sometimes spend. Just a couple of thoughts... • Fit and solder the bezel wire to match the stone — I smear a thin layer of red sticky wax near the edge of my bench, and then twist and force the stone onto it. The stone stays securely enough so that I can focus on fitting the bezel without holding the stone. I think that having the stone stationary saves me some time here. • trim the excess backplate with shears then file flush — I think you might be faster than me here. Maybe not. I run a sharpie around the solder joint so that it's easy to see, then I saw off the excess backplate as close to the bezel as I dare. I also like the look of a flush backplate, so we're both putting in extra filing and finishing time on that. The thought of using shears makes me imagine distorted backplates and/or bezels.
• file and sand any marks left form setting the stone — I hammer set my stones, but I still need to remove setting marks. I use pumice wheels in my Foredom. They remove all the marks and the surface finish is usually fine enough to go directly to a pink (fine) abrasive wheel. No files needed. Yes, get a polishing machine. I don't tumble anything. • Photograph and make listing — With that included in your total time I think that you're doing well. Nice work!!
Thank you. I appreciate any tips. I use the shears after soldering the bezel wire to the back plate. That gets me pretty close to the edge. After that I do use a carbide cutting tool to grind the backplate even closer. The final step is filing but even with all that prep work the filing takes a good amount of time and is pretty hard on the hands. That is probably the most labor intensive step for me. soldered  Carbide cutter  After carbide cutter  After filing  |
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mgrets
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2011
Posts: 321
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Post by mgrets on Dec 4, 2022 10:03:44 GMT -5
For me, one of the most time-consuming tasks is filing the back plate flush with the bezel after sawing it out. Rough filing followed by a fine file took me around 10 or twelve minutes per cab. For $60 I bought a 1 inch belt sander at Harbor Freight. With this, I can do the same job in about a minute. Since I hate filing, this sander has been a game-changer.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 4, 2022 10:14:21 GMT -5
For me, one of the most time-consuming tasks is filing the back plate flush with the bezel after sawing it out. Rough filing followed by a fine file took me around 10 or twelve minutes per cab. For $60 I bought a 1 1/2 inch belt sander at Harbor Freight. With this, I can do the same job in about a minute. Since I hate filing, this sander has been a game-changer. I get pretty close to my bezel with the carbide cutter now and that reduced the filing quite a bit. I do have a bench model belt sander in the wood shop. I'll try that sometime. Foredom has a small belt sander. Too many gadgets and not enough money, lol  Chuck |
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Mountain DEW, and Mountain Don't. (sorry-2)
glad someone knows what their doing ...
Water, water everywhere, and the very boards did shrink 
