Selling material

[realrockhound]

When you guys sell material on here, how do you perform your transactions? Does everyone go through Venmo, cash app or some other methods?

[nursetumbler]

realrockhound

I have paid with paypal and sold with paypal

[Tommy]

Apr 22, 2023 14:55:49 GMT -5 realrockhound said:

When you guys sell material on here, how do you perform your transactions? Does everyone go through Venmo, cash app or some other methods?

Paypal still seems to be the method of choice here. I use Venmo on my job a lot and I've requested it for rock sales here and even offered discounts for using it but not very much interest in it.

[stardiamond]

Paypal is the standard. Starting this year paypal will produce a 1099k when payments received are over $600. If you are planning on selling a lot more than that, you might want to consider other options.

[realrockhound]

Ok, good to know. I'm finally getting to a point where I think I can cope with letting some of my material go (sentimental reasons). So I just wanted to see what the preferred choice is when the time comes. 

For example, here is some of my stock of Ochoco dendritic/Ochoco sunset agate. I'll never go through this in a lifetime and need to start making some decisions on how to best part with some of it once I determine fair prices on it. 


 

[MsAli]

I've always paid with PayPal on here, but I think most would have other means as well

[pebblesky]

As a buyer I can do paypal or Venmo.

[Rockoonz]

I pay my mechanic and barber with zelle.
It has been paypal for rocks and related, but my favorite is cash in person.

[gunsil]

Everybody who uses electronic payments needs to write their senators and congressmen! Until last year the limit for getting a 1099 for sales was $20,000 or 200 items sold. Now it is $600 and can be for even one sale. This is patently unfair for those hobbyists who sell part time mostly to support their hobby. Ebay has even sent out forms to fill out that they forward to your lawmakers after you fill out the form. This governmental greed can be stopped if enough folks complain.

[khara]

gunsil The $600 is also the total amount of the transaction, the money that moved, so platform fees, shipping, maybe even tax paid by the buyer (not sure if they are subtracting that back out or not) but because of that the 600 is considerably more than your actual earnings. So you are reported to the IRS as having earned 600 but really may have only pocketed 300. It’s not only egregious in that it’s such a low threshold for everyone to have to hassle over, but it will force non-businesses to need to behave and record keep as though they are businesses, so it creates an additional burden by taxing people out of their time as well. You’ll need documentation for what your earnings really are, because the platforms are reporting the total amount moved, not your earnings.

[Rockoonz]

gunsil khara we sell as the extension of our hobby, so we keep our reciepts for everything we buy related to the hobby and also keep a record of mileage traveled and reciepts for food eaten away from home. Much of our buying and selling is cash in person, we include it but many don't. Bottom line for us will be red ink, we will pay no taxes on it. Applies to almost all hobby sales, especially one that involves lots of travel.

[gunsil]

Yeah Khara, I am well aware of those facts. They are just making it difficult for small time sellers. The law went into effect Jan 2022 but they delayed it until this year. Ebay thinks/says partly due to their write in campaign last year and they are doing it again now. Hopefully if enough letters get to those in charge it can be made to disappear. The old rule of 200 sales or $20,000 was supposed to protect those who sell their old belongings on the net as they would holding yard sales which made real sense. Wanting receipts for everything is inane too. Say I slice up a rock and sell a couple of slabs to offset the cost of the rough, it would be very hard to get them to understand or care that I may have spent much more on rough that didn't yield anything usable. I have no receipts for most of the rough or slabs I have purchased at gem shows, no way I can comply with the rule. I guess it's back to postal money orders or checks as payment for small time sellers.

[Rockoonz]

gunsil checks and money orders process through your bank and the IRS wants to monitor that too, so as burdensome as it is for us little guys who can't afford accountants, keeping records is important. However, when you sell things you are either reselling or making what you sell from components you buy. As long as you aren't unreasonable about it you can deduct the original price paid even without reciepts, the fact that you were able to sell it is proof that you purchased the raw materials. The nice thing about reciepts is it just makes an audit easier if it happens, but in reality the odds of an audit if you aren't up into high 6 figure income or suspected of illegal activity is about zero. As long as it stays hobby and you stop at zero on deductions you're fine, you can't deduct hobby losses from your regular income.

[gunsil]

Yes, the IRS would like to access bank accounts but so far their limit is pretty high on what banks have to report. You are allowed to have yard sales and not report money taken in as income, they did not have to make the $600 limit for those who sell small time online. Yes, I have friends who do the ebay thing enough that they got 1099s in the past, and yes, they actually pay little tax on the sales due to deductions like travel expenses but they sell over $20K a year. Keeping strict records and having to deal with a lot of paperwork is just unfair and unjust for those who sell little. Send those e-mails to your congressmen and senators!! Personally I will not vote for any candidate from any party who supports the $600 limit. Vote 'em out! I mean, it's supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people and I don't know any of the people who want this.

[MsAli]

Apr 23, 2023 8:44:03 GMT -5 gunsil said:

Everybody who uses electronic payments needs to write their senators and congressmen! Until last year the limit for getting a 1099 for sales was $20,000 or 200 items sold. Now it is $600 and can be for even one sale. This is patently unfair for those hobbyists who sell part time mostly to support their hobby. Ebay has even sent out forms to fill out that they forward to your lawmakers after you fill out the form. This governmental greed can be stopped if enough folks complain.

There has been some changes to this. 

[gunsil]

The only changes I am aware of is that the $600 limit was delayed for a year and is now on for 2023. I got an e-mail from eBay only a week ago with a form to send to my elected officials so it is still on as originally written. If you have documentation of changes, kindly let me know. I'm getting old and doing shows is getting harder for me and I'd like to try some online selling, just don't need any more 1099s or paperwork.

[MsAli]

Apr 24, 2023 9:37:22 GMT -5 gunsil said:

The only changes I am aware of is that the $600 limit was delayed for a year and is now on for 2023. I got an e-mail from eBay only a week ago with a form to send to my elected officials so it is still on as originally written. If you have documentation of changes, kindly let me know. I'm getting old and doing shows is getting harder for me and I'd like to try some online selling, just don't need any more 1099s or paperwork.

I'd check the IRS website  for updates 

File Form 1099-MISC for each person to whom you have paid during the year:

At least $10 in royalties or broker payments in lieu of dividends or tax-exempt interest.
At least $600 in:
Rents.
Prizes and awards.
Other income payments.
Medical and health care payments.
Crop insurance proceeds.
Cash payments for fish (or other aquatic life) you purchase from anyone engaged in the trade or business of catching fish.
Generally, the cash paid from a notional principal contract to an individual, partnership, or estate.
Payments to an attorney.
Any fishing boat proceeds.

In addition, use Form 1099-MISC to report that you made direct sales of at least $5,000 of consumer products to a buyer for resale anywhere other than a permanent retail establishment.

[markb]

Apr 23, 2023 16:25:21 GMT -5 Rockoonz said:

gunsil khara we sell as the extension of our hobby, so we keep our reciepts for everything we buy related to the hobby and also keep a record of mileage traveled and reciepts for food eaten away from home. Much of our buying and selling is cash in person, we include it but many don't. Bottom line for us will be red ink, we will pay no taxes on it. Applies to almost all hobby sales, especially one that involves lots of travel.

I agree, Lee.  I do it this way as well for any businesses or hobbies I've had. It's a personal choice.  

Somewhere along the line many folks started selling from hobbies or other online services, vs through a registered business, and enjoyed no taxation on income because no one governed it.  The IRS relied on folks to claim income, which seldom happened. But we all know in this country income is taxed.  So instead of fighting the laws and writing your Congressman, just up your game a bit, run your business the legal way, track all income and expenses including reasonable wages to yourself, and utilize the profit/loss taxing system. 

Also, the comment about dealing in cash is so important, because when digital cash only becomes a reality, say goodbye to any freedom in currency exchange!  Your personal/business spending will be able to be monitored 24/7, and it may just turn out that control of those funds won't really belong to you anyway.  Some think we will use bartering, but the problem with that is most think what they have to offer in exchange is worth so much more than they are trying to get.

[Rockoonz]

Apr 24, 2023 11:20:04 GMT -5 markb said:

Also, the comment about dealing in cash is so important, because when digital cash only becomes a reality, say goodbye to any freedom in currency exchange!  Your personal/business spending will be able to be monitored 24/7, and it may just turn out that control of those funds won't really belong to you anyway.  Some think we will use bartering, but the problem with that is most think what they have to offer in exchange is worth so much more than they are trying to get.

That's the ticket.
I will be exchanging a rather large ticket item I'm selling for some handyman work for some of the cash. Since it has no relation to my hobby it is perfectly legal, normal peer to peer exchange, and won't be on my profit/loss. If a cashless "society" (society is a societal construct, a fiction, I have never met someone who signed that social contract we all are supposedly subject to) ever emerges, a huge portion of us have it covered, and the results for the elite who would spring the scam on us would be strong communities of people existing to circumvent their edicts, people who they had previously been able to divide who would join forces to nullify their infringements of basic human rights.

[Rockoonz]

markb my records are totally CYA, if paypal or another payment portal sends me a 1099 I have no intention of adding it to income or filing business related documents in my return since it is not a business for their purposes. If an auditor questions it my answer, "so I can deduct mileage, lodging, food, and raw materials from my TOTAL income?" The answer to that. of course, is no when it's a hobby, so there are no reporting requirements. If they say otherwise and you are audited, just pay up the measly 10-15% and immediately contact the institute for justice to be added to the class action they have promised if the new tax rules are ever enacted and enforced.
I'm doing shows this summer, I can expense everything out. When I go to a rock club meeting my mileage fits an ongoing education deduction related to lapidary. Absolutely everything I do for love of rocks is deductible if that is the case.
OTOH, I will send a check to AZ for sales tax from the show we did this year, just like we did in WA and easy to calculate since it was 100% cash sales this year. When we use square it's even easier.