dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by dillonf on Mar 17, 2024 16:40:39 GMT -5
I just saw a commercial for this company: Eterneva. The ad focuses on turning your deceased pets into diamonds - hence I had to look them up. When I went to their site I was surprised (guess I shouldn't have been), because they offer the service for human remains as well. Frankly, I'm fascinated, but don't quite know how I feel about this? Seems crazy sci fi to me. www.eterneva.com/What do y'all think?
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titaniumkid
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2023
Posts: 189
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Post by titaniumkid on Mar 17, 2024 16:56:39 GMT -5
I've heard of it being done for people before. Didn't know it was marketed at pets.
I agree. Not sure how I feel about it. Personally, I wouldn't want to be wearing a recently deceased loved one as jewellery, but maybe that would be very meaningful for some people.
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 17, 2024 17:20:56 GMT -5
IDK, I'm skeptical. Now, I do know that people who work borosilicate class can encase the ashes. It can be faceted, too.
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Post by jasoninsd on Mar 17, 2024 23:23:24 GMT -5
I know a lot of people I wouldn't classify as "gems"...maybe this is the only chance people like that have at reaching that kind of "description"! LOL
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 18, 2024 0:08:23 GMT -5
They ave been doing this for quite a while, mainly with human remains. The pet thing is more recent.
What I have always wondered is that they allow you to pick the color of the diamond that you want. What does not make sense is that everyone will have a different chemistry as well as whatever the person or pet was cremated in. Even traces of elements can change the color a diamond becomes. For example, traces of boron create blue diamonds. Traces of nitrogen form green diamonds, higher levels yellow and higher levels red just like a stoplight. So how can you choose the color of diamond your loved one or pet will supposedly be made from when they cannot control the various elements that will be present in the ashes used?
The only answer I can think of is that they would have to take the ashes, then purify them down to pure carbon, then add whatever impurity required to make that color. If this is the case, then what do they do with the rest of your loved one or pet that they extracted to make the pure carbon? The trash can or flushed down the sink?
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titaniumkid
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2023
Posts: 189
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Post by titaniumkid on Mar 18, 2024 1:12:43 GMT -5
If this is the case, then what do they do with the rest of your loved one or pet that they extracted to make the pure carbon? The trash can or flushed down the sink? Depending on where the company is based, whether or not they can flush remains down the sink probably depends on licensing agreements with local water authorities. At least that seems to be the case with water cremations, so I imagine this is similar. Apparently, a Swiss company only requires 500 g of ashes and will return any unused ashes or scatter them in a forest. They also claim to not artificially colour or add carbon to the diamonds (though they do offer coloured diamonds) but I have to go and find a spinosaurus right now so I can't investigate further. Procedures seems to vary among companies. The Swiss company for anyone interested: www.algordanza.com/en/
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 18, 2024 6:48:12 GMT -5
If this is the case, then what do they do with the rest of your loved one or pet that they extracted to make the pure carbon? The trash can or flushed down the sink? Depending on where the company is based, whether or not they can flush remains down the sink probably depends on licensing agreements with local water authorities. At least that seems to be the case with water cremations, so I imagine this is similar. Apparently, a Swiss company only requires 500 g of ashes and will return any unused ashes or scatter them in a forest. They also claim to not artificially colour or add carbon to the diamonds (though they do offer coloured diamonds) but I have to go and find a spinosaurus right now so I can't investigate further. Procedures seems to vary among companies. The Swiss company for anyone interested: www.algordanza.com/en/Also depends on who is paid off to define things. If the carbon is purified then is what remains still considered remains? Big companies pay off politicians all the time to change definitions or laws for their personal benefit.
For example, the FDA allows the artificial sweetener aspartame (Equal, Nutrasweet) to be listed as "natural flavoring" even though nothing about it is natural. The aspartic acid and phenylalanine amino acids that make up aspartame are both synthesized as is the methyl alcohol that links the amino acids.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,595
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Post by dillonf on Mar 18, 2024 11:21:06 GMT -5
I know a lot of people I wouldn't classify as "gems"...maybe this is the only chance people like that have at reaching that kind of "description"! LOL
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
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Post by gemfeller on Mar 18, 2024 13:15:17 GMT -5
I was skeptical about the process after reading Robert James's report years ago. I still am to some degree, especially in regard to the promotional aspect of the business. But here's a report that claims to be wholly 'scientific.' I leave that judgment to you readers. afteryourtime.com/cremation-diamonds-real-or-hoax/
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Post by realrockhound on Mar 18, 2024 13:25:23 GMT -5
I know a lot of people I wouldn't classify as "gems"...maybe this is the only chance people like that have at reaching that kind of "description"! LOL I know that was a dig at me 😂
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 18, 2024 14:09:33 GMT -5
I know a lot of people I wouldn't classify as "gems"...maybe this is the only chance people like that have at reaching that kind of "description"! LOL I know that was a dig at me 😂 Aren't YOU the smart one? LOL!
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 18, 2024 16:53:43 GMT -5
I was skeptical about the process after reading Robert James's report years ago. I still am to some degree, especially in regard to the promotional aspect of the business. But here's a report that claims to be wholly 'scientific.' I leave that judgment to you readers. afteryourtime.com/cremation-diamonds-real-or-hoax/That does verify what I mentioned earlier about extracting the carbon from the rest of the cremation ashes.
One thing I would question in this article though is where the author writes:
"Furthermore, just like with other types of lab-made diamonds, the Federal Trade Commission has confirmed that cremation diamonds can be marketed as real and genuine diamonds because, just like “natural” diamonds, they are “pure carbon crystalized in the isometric system.”"
The reason is that these are not natural diamonds, they are synthetic diamonds. And the FTC does not allow other synthetic gemstones to be referred to as "real", which implies natural. Synthetic stones such as sapphires including ruby, alexandrite, etc. have to be listed as synthetic stones or lab grown, not as real stones.
Same with simulants such as diamond substitutes such as YAG or aluminum oxide "diamonds", which must be marketed as simulants.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Mar 18, 2024 17:34:47 GMT -5
I was skeptical about the process after reading Robert James's report years ago. I still am to some degree, especially in regard to the promotional aspect of the business. But here's a report that claims to be wholly 'scientific.' I leave that judgment to you readers. afteryourtime.com/cremation-diamonds-real-or-hoax/That does verify what I mentioned earlier about extracting the carbon from the rest of the cremation ashes. One thing I would question in this article though is where the author writes: "Furthermore, just like with other types of lab-made diamonds, the Federal Trade Commission has confirmed that cremation diamonds can be marketed as real and genuine diamonds because, just like “natural” diamonds, they are “pure carbon crystalized in the isometric system.”" The reason is that these are not natural diamonds, they are synthetic diamonds. And the FTC does not allow other synthetic gemstones to be referred to as "real", which implies natural. Synthetic stones such as sapphires including ruby, alexandrite, etc. have to be listed as synthetic stones or lab grown, not as real stones. Same with simulants such as diamond substitutes such as YAG or aluminum oxide "diamonds", which must be marketed as simulants.
vegasjames The whole issue of man-made, synthetic, natural etc. has created a semantic maze for the FTC. Here's a couple of articles that go into the new rulings by the FTC regarding man-made diamonds. Apparently the term "synthetic" is no longer required for lab-made gems that are chemically identical to mined stones, if I read correctly. www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2018/08/02/what-the-ftc-diamond-ruling-means-for-consumers-and-diamond-marketers/?sh=4ac6fdb020fanationaljeweler.com/articles/956-a-quick-review-of-the-ftc-s-rules-on-lab-grown-diamonds
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titaniumkid
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2023
Posts: 189
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Post by titaniumkid on Mar 18, 2024 17:45:14 GMT -5
Yeah, that's an important factor to consider. The FDA example is great. There can also be reluctance to disrupt the status quo and significant inertia regarding changing things at a regulatory level because of politics and industry and consumer expectations. I've seen similar regarding the assessment and regulation of pesticides. Another example (I have to be careful how I write this), but when we identified an ecological issue in a natural waterbody and some stakeholders rightly pointed out there were implications for drinking water, another stakeholder said, "They didn't want to know, otherwise they would be expected to do something about it." "Greenwashing" products is another example that comes to mind. A part of the problem is that even well-intentioned governing bodies don't have the same time, resources, and creativity that business and industry has, and they are often playing catch-up when it comes to new innovations and products being offered. Coming back to these diamonds, perhaps they add whatever is left over after extracting the carbon back to any remaining ashes (assuming it is in a fine particulate form) and then the ashes are dealt with according to whatever local regulations apply for cremations.
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 19, 2024 0:44:26 GMT -5
That does verify what I mentioned earlier about extracting the carbon from the rest of the cremation ashes. One thing I would question in this article though is where the author writes: "Furthermore, just like with other types of lab-made diamonds, the Federal Trade Commission has confirmed that cremation diamonds can be marketed as real and genuine diamonds because, just like “natural” diamonds, they are “pure carbon crystalized in the isometric system.”" The reason is that these are not natural diamonds, they are synthetic diamonds. And the FTC does not allow other synthetic gemstones to be referred to as "real", which implies natural. Synthetic stones such as sapphires including ruby, alexandrite, etc. have to be listed as synthetic stones or lab grown, not as real stones. Same with simulants such as diamond substitutes such as YAG or aluminum oxide "diamonds", which must be marketed as simulants.
vegasjames The whole issue of man-made, synthetic, natural etc. has created a semantic maze for the FTC. Here's a couple of articles that go into the new rulings by the FTC regarding man-made diamonds. Apparently the term "synthetic" is no longer required for lab-made gems that are chemically identical to mined stones, if I read correctly. www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2018/08/02/what-the-ftc-diamond-ruling-means-for-consumers-and-diamond-marketers/?sh=4ac6fdb020fanationaljeweler.com/articles/956-a-quick-review-of-the-ftc-s-rules-on-lab-grown-diamondsThe Forbes article really sucks. For instance, they imply something synthetic is fake, which is not true. Again, if a sapphire is synthesized that does make it fake. It is still real sapphire, it has just been produced synthetically. If it were a simulant instead of a synthetic, then it would be fake.
And their claim that you cannot synthesize elements it total bullshit. For example, it is super simple to synthesize carbon by burning sugar with a torch. Pure copper can be synthesized by reducing copper oxide through high heat in the presence of hydrogen gas. I can give numerous other examples.
As for diamond, the process of chemical vapor deposition (CVD) is synthesizing carbon from methane, which is then synthesized in to a crystalline form. I first heard of CVD diamonds over 30 years ago, and experimented with a similar process at the time. Originally the process involved using a heated tungsten coil to knock the carbon out of methane forming diamond. Later then went to microwaves to do the same thing. Changing the gas methane to free carbon and hydrogen gas is synthesis.
At no point in the article though did they say anything about lab grown diamonds can be old simply as diamond.
As for your second article, they back what I was saying where I wrote:
"The FTC says they still must make it clear that the product is man-made by using “clear and conspicuous” disclosure with the word diamond; the three terms the FTC recommends using are laboratory-grown, laboratory-created or [manufacturer name]-created.
Cultured is OK too, but it has to be “immediately accompanied, with equal conspicuousness” by one of the three terms; it cannot stand alone.
When “diamond” appears by itself, it still means a natural diamond."
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 19, 2024 1:11:19 GMT -5
From the FTC: www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2019/04/warning-letters-re-mined-diamond-sellers-describe-products-accurately"The Guides caution marketers not to use the name of any precious stone, including diamonds, to describe a simulated or laboratory-created stone, unless the name is immediately preceded by a clear disclosure of the nature of the product and that it’s not a mined stone. The Guides put it this way: It is unfair or deceptive to use the word “ruby,” “sapphire,” “emerald,” “topaz,” or the name of any other precious or semi-precious stone, or the word “stone,” “birthstone,” “gem,” “gemstone,” or similar term to describe a laboratory-grown, laboratory-created, [manufacturer name]-created, synthetic, imitation, or simulated stone, unless such word or name is immediately preceded with equal conspicuousness by the word “laboratory-grown,” “laboratory-created,” “[manufacturer name]-created,” or some other word or phrase of like meaning, or by the word “imitation” or “simulated,” so as to disclose clearly the nature of the product and the fact it is not a mined gemstone. The warning letters also advise marketers not to describe simulated diamonds in a way that may falsely imply they have the same optical, physical, and chemical properties of mined diamonds. Here’s the relevant provision in the Guides: It is unfair or deceptive to use the word “laboratory-grown,” “laboratory-created,” “[manufacturer name]-created,” “synthetic,” or other word or phrase of like meaning with the name of any natural stone to describe any industry product unless such product has essentially the same optical, physical, and chemical properties as the stone named." "Clarify your use of “diamond.” According to FTC staff, some ads showed pictures that appear to be diamond jewelry or use the word “diamond” without disclosing close to the product depiction or name, or in the product description, that it was a lab-created or simulated stone. Hashtags and URLs can convey claims, too. That’s why advertisers who sell lab-created or simulated products should exercise caution about using #diamonds or domain names that include the word “diamond.” Don’t assume that consumers will understand your marketing terminology. Some of the warning letters went to companies that described their lab-created or simulated stones with proprietary phrases that FTC staff thought could be deceptive to consumers without more explanation. Advertisers should avoid lingo that could leave buyers with a misimpression about the nature of the product. Keep your descriptions consistent. In one Instagram ad cited in the warning letters, the company described some of its diamonds as “cultured” and others as “lab grown.” FTC staff was concerned that the inconsistent descriptors could create a false impression in consumers’ minds that the “cultured diamonds” are mined, rather than laboratory-created."
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 19, 2024 9:31:49 GMT -5
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 19, 2024 18:52:06 GMT -5
I'm going to go tell my wife that I really am a diamond in the rough. If you guys don't hear from me in a while you can assume the worst.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Mar 19, 2024 18:59:28 GMT -5
I'm going to go tell my wife that I really am a diamond in the rough. If you guys don't hear from me in a while you can assume the worst. LOL!
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 19, 2024 20:48:08 GMT -5
My sister has her late husband's fingerprint in silver. It's a pendant. She always wears it. I know, not the same thing. Cheaper, though.
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