Well shoot, I just got greenlit for "operation cabber"

[rocknrob]

My 50th birthday just came and went (October 1st) and it's been a dumpster fire of a month for any kind of birthday celebration. There wasn't one other than with my wife and my son. Everyone else was down with Covid or some other illness and well, things happen that just takes the wind out of the sails of such things over the next couple weeks.



Until today when my wife suggested I should look at a cabbing machine...



Until recently, I've been strictly working off a dremel and Hi-Tech all you need 6"-8" flat lap. From what I know there are several makes out there, namely HP, Covington, Kingsley North, Cab King (Hi Tech?) and the folks who make the Genie/Pixie/Etc whose name escapes me. I honestly don't know if I need a 6" or 8" one as the majority of work I will be doing will be on cabs.



The frugal dominant side of my brain is telling me to go buy a used unit from somewhere around here and refurbish it, but the other side is telling me "go buy something new". I'm at a crossroads because I've heard folks swear at and by the wheels on a cabber versus someone who bought one of those expando drum set ups.



I guess the question is with folks who are familiar with the tools and needs of cabochon making, what's an ideal economical setup for a noob like myself at using cabbing wheels/expando drums or belt sanding? I know it's going to be a different kind of animal compared to a flat lap. Any insight here would be absolutely lovely. Thank you!

    - Rob

[mirkee]

Looking forward to this discussion as I think one is in my future.  I've only used a Genie at a club shop (2 hours away!) and it was a real sweet machine.  I especially liked the water spitter system which other people dislike.

[chris1956]

Fun times ahead!    I know there are some previous threads on this but couldn't find them real fast.  Here is a link to one for the new Kingsley North cabber discussion.


forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/105629/new-kingsley-north-cabber-model


My two cents worth since I couldn't find my old thread on this.   I got a Kingsley North cabber about 3 years ago and really like it.   Haven't had any real issues with it.   A few thoughts:  I got an 8 inch because I could but it is probably overkill.   They are made from stainless steel and weigh a lot so if you are looking for something to easily move around this isn't it (although 6 inch might be a lot less weight).   Mine is belt driven and I haven't had any issues with the belt.   The bearings have zerk grease fittings which I like but you do have to take the top off to get to them.   One hp motor on the 8 inch.   It is a lot of power so they recommend screwing it down to your bench.   Not sure if that is true of the 6 inch or other cabbers.   On mine the felt pads are hard to replace but it looks like they solved this on the new models (see link above).  The joints on the top backside leaked a lot of liquid but this was easily solved by adding some thin weather stripping along the joint.   Since the pans are stainless steel, I added some 1/8 inch rubber matting because I have fumble fingers and was always dropping stones on the hard surface.   I also added some plastic sheets on the ends because I was getting some spray from the outside wheels that was spraying onto the table and floor.   

One thing I will really give them credit for is there O&M manual.  It isn't perfect but it is way way better than any other manuals I have seen for new equipment.   

Probably think of something else later.   

Chris

[opalpyrexia]

One factor to consider is wheel lubrication: drip versus geyser. A drip system uses an elevated reservoir, while a geyser system uses an air pump with "spitters".

There are quite a few older threads that deal with your question.

[realrockhound]

6” inch is all you need. If I were to buy a new unit. Kingsley is what I would get. I like my 6” genie by diamond pacific. Geyser system is the only drawback.

[rocknrob]

After working on the cooling for my drop saw, putting together for a gravity feed drip system will be a piece of cake. I've heard a lot of good things about the Kingsley cabber. Does anyone have experience with the newer HP 6 cabber?

[chris1956]

Kingsley comes with a pump system although I don't know why you couldn't set it up for gravity feed.  Also, a minor item is the connectoin of the light to the back of the unit.   Could have been done better.  I have had to reattach mine a couple times when it came loose.   Not a big deal.  

[rockinrenn]

I have an Easycab Cabbing Machine manufactured in Orem Utah by my friends at Simple Elegance Rock Shop.  You might want to look into this.  Stainless steel case and six 8 inch cabbing wheels from 80 to 3000.  Leather polishing wheel and place for a buffing/drying wheel.  Here is a facebook link.

www.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100057132653530

It is a fantastic machine.

[whalecottagedesigns]

rockinrenn How much does that unit cost, I had a quick look and cannot see a price anywhere?

rocknrob Good news! Glad for your sake :-) I had a similar discussion somewhere else and can add a thought or two that may help. Our conclusion was that all of the main units are pretty darn good, the Diamond Pacific and Cabking ones in particular. The only upside having an 8 inch is that you have a fair bit more space next to the wheels so if you want to do something like heart shapes on cabs, or slightly bigger cabs, the extra space on the 8 inch version is very helpful!

Then the other pretty important consideration is that if the machines are all pretty equal, it does not matter which one you get, but do make sure that you get the very best wheels right from the start. They typically come with basic cheaper wheels which work fine, but from all accounts, the Nova ones really are significantly better. So try to have those included with your machine from the git-go! That will save some money. My next purchase when my current ones die will be the Nova ones. I have now tried the stock basic wheels and the Rez ones, and build and quality issues are a pain.

Then the last thought as well is to spring for the sintered 80 and 220 instead of the electroplated ones. I have upgraded my metal wheels (I got the "legacy" ones from Diamon Pacific I think, and they were half the price of other sintered ones I could find) and can personally say that they are like night and day to the electroplated ones. And from what I understand, they will last many many years.

And your learning curve switching from the flat lap type system to the wheels will be quick, the actions are different but you should get it in 5 cabs! :-) And it speeds up your cabbing massively! Good fun in your future!

[rocknrob]

Sounds like the consensus is the Kingsley North. I may have to power through the regular wheels before upgrading to higher end wheels but seeing that Kingsley has their own variety of Nova-like wheels makes me want to give those a try once I go through the regular wheels.

I'm really surprised no-one mentioned the expando-drum quad set from Covington as I've heard some old-timers in our rock club swear by how cheap it is to swap out belts. I think that would be a strictly shape and then toss into a tumbler type setup for cabochons. Not a bad setup but like most things in life, there are multiple ways to achieve the same results.

Thank you all for the advice!

- Rob

[whalecottagedesigns]

Rob, Kingsley North should be fantastic! Seeing that they throw in the stock wheels, do ask them what the price difference would be if you want the Nova equivalent ones rather than the stock ones, they may give them to you at that minus stock wheel cost price!

[Rockoonz]

rocknrob you commented you want to do concaves and inside curves, in that case the smaller diameter wheel the better. 6" or even smaller, inside curves with 8" wheels just looks like someone screwed up a straight line.

[Pat]

Oct 29, 2024 0:52:15 GMT -5 Rockoonz said:

rocknrob you commented you want to do concaves and inside curves, in that case the smaller diameter wheel the better. 6" or even smaller, inside curves with 8" wheels just looks like someone screwed up a straight line.

Pixie by Diamond Pacific is good for inside curves. 4” wheels.

Happy birthday!

[rockjunquie]

In past threads, it seems the consensus was the same as you have reached. Really can't go wrong with DP Nova wheels.

I'd just like to say- congratulations on the green light. Thank your wife for us- we'll get to see your eye candy.

[liveoak]

I love my Knigsley North 6" cabber  .

I got mine with the stock KN wheels, it came down to what I could afford.

Having never used a "Nova" wheel, I don't know the difference.

But as I've had to replace a wheel I've gotten Johnson Brothers "Super Nova" (again for price) and like them a lot.

There were a couple of selling points to me on the KN.

Separate motor- I like that if the motor goes, I can replace it.

End laps - really nice, it has the ability to take a lap on both ends.

AND that they are inside the case with water feed.

The space between the wheels is generous, much more than other 6" cabbers I looked at.

ALSO, since I got mine they have fixed a couple of leaking issues, I understand, so you should be good to go.

BTW- Happy Birthday !

Rob's video sold me :

Patty

[whalecottagedesigns]

liveoak Patty, you are right, that is a ton of space between the wheels! And a consideration here also is that the wheels are a tad cheaper than the 8 inch ones, and that stuff adds up over time!

That is the first time I have heard of the "Super Nova" wheels. I have had about a third of my Rez and stock Cabking wheels give trouble with "bumpy" areas on the wheels. And it makes me a little cross really, one pays a fair bit for them, the resin stuff should be put on properly and they should be balanced properly!

How did you find the Super Novas? Any iffy patches on them?

And the same question actually goes out to people who have bought the well known Nova wheels. Has anyone had issues with quality control on those very very expensive wheels?

[liveoak]

whalecottagedesigns

The Super Novas are the name Johnson Brothers has on their brand of wheels.

Sorry, I should have given the link:

www.johnsonbrotherslapidary.com/Wheels_6_inch.html

I've had zero problems on new resin wheels from them, I have a couple 6" and 4".

Seem balanced, no weird issues on the new wheels.

I did have a wheel re-surfaced by them with a problem (peeling off) after a short amount of time, 

and unfortunately, they wouldn't warranty it. SO I recommend new or nothing.

Patty

[Rockoonz]

Oct 29, 2024 2:05:51 GMT -5 Pat said:

Oct 29, 2024 0:52:15 GMT -5 Rockoonz said:

rocknrob you commented you want to do concaves and inside curves, in that case the smaller diameter wheel the better. 6" or even smaller, inside curves with 8" wheels just looks like someone screwed up a straight line.

Pixie by Diamond Pacific is good for inside curves. 4” wheels.

Happy birthday!

One of my friends in the Mt Hood club had a genie with a number of extra adaptors, with 4" and even the "bigfoot" 2 1/2" wheels on them for smaller inside curves. The geysers had to be used with a higher output aquarium pump to get them to go high enough for the smaller wheels, as I remember. He won competitive cab competitions with that setup.

[rockinrenn]

If my memory serves me right, the Easycab is about $2100.00 dollars.  But I bought mine 7 years ago.  I didn't mention that the machine is easily expandable to eight 8 inch wheels and the drip system can be converted to pump system very easily which I have done.  It has a two speed motor which makes it easy to deal with softer material when shaping cabs.  Sounds like rocknrob is satisfied with the Kingsley and that is fine, but others may be interested in this machine.   Simple Elegance may be reached by calling [phone] or at [e-mail].

[dshanpnw]

I think I went through just about the same conundrum of what machine to buy before I decided on the Kingsley North 6" cabber with Nova wheels. I think it is great. I don't think I'll ever use anything but the Nova wheels. You already have a flat lap so that will be very useful for flattening and polishing the backs of your masterpieces. I like the water pump system with the KN, but it requires a couple buckets, one for clean water and the other for the waste water.