Well shoot, I just got greenlit for "operation cabber"

[rockbrain]

I'm still really liking my KN6. I think the wheel spacing on the HP unit might even be slightly more than the KN. I'm not totally thrilled with the light connection on the KN but it hasn't caused any issues and I've used it quite a bit. I like the fact that the KN is built in the USA. Price is about the same as the HP. The upgrade to Nova wheels is $730 which is a decent chunk of change for the upgrade. I love the Nova wheel but at the early point of my cabbing experience I used a Super Nova and liked it a lot. I think at this point I would be really tempted to buy the KN with the standard wheel and then upgrade the soft wheels down the line as needed. Super Nova is also available as a 220 grit which I really like for the first soft wheel. I also used an expando drum early on. I liked it a lot. The width is really nice! Keep in mind, the less expensive SIC belts only go up to 1000 grit. Anything higher you need to buy diamond belts.

[rocknrob]

Darnit! "Operation Cabber" is delayed for a few months. Apparently our truck needs this thing called "Tires" and that kinda took the wind out of the lapidary sails for the moment. I will get one though...

[tribeunited]

More time for research! Also, maybe you'll come across a used one while you're waiting. Keep willing a cabbing machine your way...


Happy Birthday to you!

[rocknrob]

[rockjunquie]

Aw no- sorry.

[tribeunited]

Oct 29, 2024 12:52:36 GMT -5 rocknrob said:

I love spongebob!


Every time I make hamburgers, I say, "People order our patties.  Awe poop, you never let us down!"

[liveoak]

Christmas is coming quicker than not & what better present to find under the tree ! ?

Make sure you let it be known, exactly which cabber, from what company.

Leave pictures around - and leave hints to the wife about the beautiful handmade jewelry you'll be showering her with.

Patty

[chris1956]

Oct 29, 2024 6:24:40 GMT -5 liveoak said:

I love my Knigsley North 6" cabber  .

I got mine with the stock KN wheels, it came down to what I could afford.

Having never used a "Nova" wheel, I don't know the difference.

But as I've had to replace a wheel I've gotten Johnson Brothers "Super Nova" (again for price) and like them a lot.

There were a couple of selling points to me on the KN.

Separate motor- I like that if the motor goes, I can replace it.

End laps - really nice, it has the ability to take a lap on both ends.

AND that they are inside the case with water feed.

The space between the wheels is generous, much more than other 6" cabbers I looked at.

ALSO, since I got mine they have fixed a couple of leaking issues, I understand, so you should be good to go.

BTW- Happy Birthday !

Rob's video sold me :

Patty

Great points!   Agree on the motor setup and end laps.   Also, the 8 inch has even more space between the wheels.  Now I recall that I was thinking about the arthritis in my hands when I chose the 8 inch for the more spacing and bigger wheels thinking it would require less stress on my fingers.   

[whalecottagedesigns]

Sorry about the delay, stoopid tires!

I do have one more thought for you. If you can, do keep the flat machine you are currently using. We went through the same steps, All-U-Need cabber, then progressing to the Cabking. And the only way we were able to afford that big monster truck was due to covid I was not able to take leave for a year and a half, and they paid out my leave! A little bit of rainbow in the rain!

Point is - we passed on the flat one to our kids when we got the big machine, and that was a couple of years ago. But now I have invested in the 8 inch slanted cabber again. I want to have more polishing solutions on a bigger lap than the wee little jobbie you spin on on the side of the Cabking. I have made up an 8 inch leather lap for Linde-A, but also I have two other felt laps that can now also accommodate cerium and possibly Tin Oxide. And the slanted cabber has a speed control so you can slow it right down for the polishing. Also, I got the glass version so it came with a bunch of metal grit discs for me to easily do the backs of cabs on too.

[Rockoonz]

Oct 29, 2024 12:05:03 GMT -5 rocknrob said:

Darnit! "Operation Cabber" is delayed for a few months. Apparently our truck needs this thing called "Tires" and that kinda took the wind out of the lapidary sails for the moment. I will get one though...

What? Tires? Priorities, man, and besides bald tires in WA are fun, drift around corners like a racecar...



Seriously though, for an actual machine I have heard a lot of good things about the EZCab, only possible downside is it's at the upper side of the price range and it requires a wider section of bench than others to get that nice wheel spacing. I was grumbling just a little today doing something larger on the genie, wheels are close together.

[rocknrob]

Oct 29, 2024 19:16:38 GMT -5 whalecottagedesigns said:

Sorry about the delay, stoopid tires!

I do have one more thought for you. If you can, do keep the flat machine you are currently using. We went through the same steps, All-U-Need cabber, then progressing to the Cabking. And the only way we were able to afford that big monster truck was due to covid I was not able to take leave for a year and a half, and they paid out my leave! A little bit of rainbow in the rain!

Point is - we passed on the flat one to our kids when we got the big machine, and that was a couple of years ago. But now I have invested in the 8 inch slanted cabber again. I want to have more polishing solutions on a bigger lap than the wee little jobbie you spin on on the side of the Cabking. I have made up an 8 inch leather lap for Linde-A, but also I have two other felt laps that can now also accommodate cerium and possibly Tin Oxide. And the slanted cabber has a speed control so you can slow it right down for the polishing. Also, I got the glass version so it came with a bunch of metal grit discs for me to easily do the backs of cabs on too.

I was thinking of getting some of the glass grinder bits to groove the thicker cabochons for wire wrapping.  Similar to how Michiganrocks does it.  Mostly also out of curiously as I would like to see how that works on this machine.  Also... dumb tires!  

[rocknrob]

Oct 29, 2024 22:41:58 GMT -5 Rockoonz said:

Oct 29, 2024 12:05:03 GMT -5 rocknrob said:

Darnit! "Operation Cabber" is delayed for a few months. Apparently our truck needs this thing called "Tires" and that kinda took the wind out of the lapidary sails for the moment. I will get one though...

What? Tires? Priorities, man, and besides bald tires in WA are fun, drift around corners like a racecar...



Seriously though, for an actual machine I have heard a lot of good things about the EZCab, only possible downside is it's at the upper side of the price range and it requires a wider section of bench than others to get that nice wheel spacing. I was grumbling just a little today doing something larger on the genie, wheels are close together.

Yeah,  I saw the EZcab mentioned above and that is a bit more machine than I have room for in the garage.  I was even thinking of going the combination machine route as having a extra water based trim saw is never a bad thing but that would put me firmly into the flex drum family.  Not bad but also nothing I've ever worked with before. 

Hehe, all it takes is me not tossing in a couple hundred pounds of gravel in the back of the truck on a rainy day and I can get that drift action pretty easily. 

[whalecottagedesigns]

Oct 30, 2024 10:24:30 GMT -5 rocknrob said:

Oct 29, 2024 19:16:38 GMT -5 whalecottagedesigns said:

Sorry about the delay, stoopid tires!

I do have one more thought for you. If you can, do keep the flat machine you are currently using. We went through the same steps, All-U-Need cabber, then progressing to the Cabking. And the only way we were able to afford that big monster truck was due to covid I was not able to take leave for a year and a half, and they paid out my leave! A little bit of rainbow in the rain!

Point is - we passed on the flat one to our kids when we got the big machine, and that was a couple of years ago. But now I have invested in the 8 inch slanted cabber again. I want to have more polishing solutions on a bigger lap than the wee little jobbie you spin on on the side of the Cabking. I have made up an 8 inch leather lap for Linde-A, but also I have two other felt laps that can now also accommodate cerium and possibly Tin Oxide. And the slanted cabber has a speed control so you can slow it right down for the polishing. Also, I got the glass version so it came with a bunch of metal grit discs for me to easily do the backs of cabs on too.

I was thinking of getting some of the glass grinder bits to groove the thicker cabochons for wire wrapping.  Similar to how Michiganrocks does it.  Mostly also out of curiously as I would like to see how that works on this machine.  Also... dumb tires!  

I imagine that would work! Let us know when you try! 

[ThomasT]

I have the 6" Diamond Pacific with geysers and the 8" HP ... both are good machines.

I set the HP up on a stainless cart with a water pumping/recycling setup underneath... works real good with plenty of elbow room around the spaced wheels.

[stardiamond]

HP lapidary is having a Black Friday sale. Their 6 inch machine is about the same as the KN. The sale will likely be 10% off with no sales tax and free shipping. Their website shows the machine with wheels but they have been selling the machine and wheels separately. 10% off the machine and 15% off the wheels. Special deals are shown at their webinars.

I have a Genie and I like spitters as opposed to overhead drip. If I were considering and entry level situation I would consider a two wheel arbor. Batching work and swapping in different wheels.

[lapidary1234]

I have read through the comments and some excellent points were made.
Let me ask first, do you have a budget in mind?

One thing not mentioned is that 8" wheels simply move more surface inches per minute and by that logic *should cut a bit faster and last a bit longer. However 8" wheels will cost considerably more when replacement time comes.

Someone brought up sintered wheels which do last a LONG time. Of you go this route it is very important to realize and take into account that they cut differently than electroplated wheels. Typicall rule of thumb is to buy one grit size coarser than you would otherwise get. Take this with a grain of salt. I ordered a 60 grit sintered wheel hoping it would cut like an 80 and in fact it cuts more like a 120-150. My 180 sintered cuts more like a 320-360. The user rmf has tested and analyzed various wheels and came to a similar conclusion. I also spoke with Richard at kingsley about this and he told me a lot of folks want sintered wheels because of the long life span but fail to realize that they simply cut "differently" than an electroplated wheel due to the diamonds being set in the matrix as opposed to on the surface like an electroplated wheels. Just something to keep in mind if you go that route.

Beyond that, I believe most manufacturers of cabbing machines are putting g out quality products nowadays, a new member at my gem club bought a vevor and showed us some cabs he made that turned out fabulous.

Wheel space considerations are worth looking into. I know the kn8 has wider spacing which is a huge bonus to have if you decide you want to work larger pieces.

Water delivery systems are another consideration, more regarding space vs superiority. I use a genie and love the fact I don't need to worry about buckets. In fat I converted a couple older machines to use the geyser system. I've made hundreds of cabs and never had a contamination issue.

One thing to look into is whether the machine uses one long arbor run off an external motor with belt or if the motor sits in the center with the shafts coming out of it. Both have their plusses and minuses. On my genie (with center motor) I can take the whole right side spindle off in one piece with all the wheels attached. I bought an extra spindle adapter and loaded it with the finer grit wheels fir when I want that extra polish. You could also load it with 4 or even 2 1/2" wheels to do tighter inside curves.

If the machine has a 1/4"×20 threaded end on the arbor it will accommodate end plates. I use a variety of spin on felt or leather plates fir final polish and I bought a steel master lap that can accommodate magnetic nova discs. I realize you have a flat lap already, just trying to be comprehensive.

Beyond that and if budget is concerned highland park sells their cb8 (8" machine) without wheels. This would allow you to slowly add the wheels you like as you can afford them.

The type of wheels that a machine comes with would be a huge (if not deciding) factor for me. I hear sooo many complaints about the stock wheels that come on the cabking. Kingsley sometimes offers their machines with the diamond pacific nova wheels. I would spend the extra money on the nova wheels, you won't be disappointed.

Regarding used machines, if you could find a genie for $1000 I'd jump on that. I think a nova wheel set runs like $800 nowadays. Buy one used, throw some new wheels on it and get the bearings/capacitor changed (I paid $250 fir that to be done) and you'd be coming in about $500 under list price.

Other used combo machines/expandable drum machines might be worth looking into if the price is right. If you find a cheap poly arbor (or other dual arbor) I'd recommend putting an 80 grit wheel on one side and using the expandable drum on the other. Other than having to turn it off to change belts there's not much difference in the resulting cabs.

At the end of the day, maybe your vehicle issues are a blessing in disguise, giving you more time to think your purchase through.

If I had to do it all over again I'd possibly look at a kingsley machine with wider wheel spacing but I am more than satisfied with my genie!!

[dshanpnw]

I'm happy you got good tires.

[chris1956]

Nov 9, 2024 22:37:22 GMT -5 lapidary1234 said:

I have read through the comments and some excellent points were made.
Let me ask first, do you have a budget in mind?

One thing not mentioned is that 8" wheels simply move more surface inches per minute and by that logic *should cut a bit faster and last a bit longer. However 8" wheels will cost considerably more when replacement time comes.

Someone brought up sintered wheels which do last a LONG time. Of you go this route it is very important to realize and take into account that they cut differently than electroplated wheels. Typicall rule of thumb is to buy one grit size coarser than you would otherwise get. Take this with a grain of salt. I ordered a 60 grit sintered wheel hoping it would cut like an 80 and in fact it cuts more like a 120-150. My 180 sintered cuts more like a 320-360. The user rmf has tested and analyzed various wheels and came to a similar conclusion. I also spoke with Richard at kingsley about this and he told me a lot of folks want sintered wheels because of the long life span but fail to realize that they simply cut "differently" than an electroplated wheel due to the diamonds being set in the matrix as opposed to on the surface like an electroplated wheels. Just something to keep in mind if you go that route.

Beyond that, I believe most manufacturers of cabbing machines are putting g out quality products nowadays, a new member at my gem club bought a vevor and showed us some cabs he made that turned out fabulous.

Wheel space considerations are worth looking into. I know the kn8 has wider spacing which is a huge bonus to have if you decide you want to work larger pieces.

Water delivery systems are another consideration, more regarding space vs superiority. I use a genie and love the fact I don't need to worry about buckets. In fat I converted a couple older machines to use the geyser system. I've made hundreds of cabs and never had a contamination issue.

One thing to look into is whether the machine uses one long arbor run off an external motor with belt or if the motor sits in the center with the shafts coming out of it. Both have their plusses and minuses. On my genie (with center motor) I can take the whole right side spindle off in one piece with all the wheels attached. I bought an extra spindle adapter and loaded it with the finer grit wheels fir when I want that extra polish. You could also load it with 4 or even 2 1/2" wheels to do tighter inside curves.

If the machine has a 1/4"×20 threaded end on the arbor it will accommodate end plates. I use a variety of spin on felt or leather plates fir final polish and I bought a steel master lap that can accommodate magnetic nova discs. I realize you have a flat lap already, just trying to be comprehensive.

Beyond that and if budget is concerned highland park sells their cb8 (8" machine) without wheels. This would allow you to slowly add the wheels you like as you can afford them.

The type of wheels that a machine comes with would be a huge (if not deciding) factor for me. I hear sooo many complaints about the stock wheels that come on the cabking. Kingsley sometimes offers their machines with the diamond pacific nova wheels. I would spend the extra money on the nova wheels, you won't be disappointed.

Regarding used machines, if you could find a genie for $1000 I'd jump on that. I think a nova wheel set runs like $800 nowadays. Buy one used, throw some new wheels on it and get the bearings/capacitor changed (I paid $250 fir that to be done) and you'd be coming in about $500 under list price.

Other used combo machines/expandable drum machines might be worth looking into if the price is right. If you find a cheap poly arbor (or other dual arbor) I'd recommend putting an 80 grit wheel on one side and using the expandable drum on the other. Other than having to turn it off to change belts there's not much difference in the resulting cabs.

At the end of the day, maybe your vehicle issues are a blessing in disguise, giving you more time to think your purchase through.

If I had to do it all over again I'd possibly look at a kingsley machine with wider wheel spacing but I am more than satisfied with my genie!!

Great points!   They made me think of a couple items in regards to KN8 and 8 inch wheels.   The 8 inch wheels do cost more but they should also last longer.   I haven't calculated it but wondering if you get a lower cost per square inch with an 8 inch wheel.   The KN8 has a more room between wheels but also remember it takes up a lot of space (length wise) if that is an issue and it weighs a lot since it is longer and is all stainless steel construction.  Just things to keep in mind.  

[rocknrob]

Nov 9, 2024 22:37:22 GMT -5 lapidary1234 said:

I have read through the comments and some excellent points were made.
Let me ask first, do you have a budget in mind?

One thing not mentioned is that 8" wheels simply move more surface inches per minute and by that logic *should cut a bit faster and last a bit longer. However 8" wheels will cost considerably more when replacement time comes.

Someone brought up sintered wheels which do last a LONG time. Of you go this route it is very important to realize and take into account that they cut differently than electroplated wheels. Typicall rule of thumb is to buy one grit size coarser than you would otherwise get. Take this with a grain of salt. I ordered a 60 grit sintered wheel hoping it would cut like an 80 and in fact it cuts more like a 120-150. My 180 sintered cuts more like a 320-360. The user rmf has tested and analyzed various wheels and came to a similar conclusion. I also spoke with Richard at kingsley about this and he told me a lot of folks want sintered wheels because of the long life span but fail to realize that they simply cut "differently" than an electroplated wheel due to the diamonds being set in the matrix as opposed to on the surface like an electroplated wheels. Just something to keep in mind if you go that route.

Beyond that, I believe most manufacturers of cabbing machines are putting g out quality products nowadays, a new member at my gem club bought a vevor and showed us some cabs he made that turned out fabulous.

Wheel space considerations are worth looking into. I know the kn8 has wider spacing which is a huge bonus to have if you decide you want to work larger pieces.

Water delivery systems are another consideration, more regarding space vs superiority. I use a genie and love the fact I don't need to worry about buckets. In fat I converted a couple older machines to use the geyser system. I've made hundreds of cabs and never had a contamination issue.

One thing to look into is whether the machine uses one long arbor run off an external motor with belt or if the motor sits in the center with the shafts coming out of it. Both have their plusses and minuses. On my genie (with center motor) I can take the whole right side spindle off in one piece with all the wheels attached. I bought an extra spindle adapter and loaded it with the finer grit wheels fir when I want that extra polish. You could also load it with 4 or even 2 1/2" wheels to do tighter inside curves.

If the machine has a 1/4"×20 threaded end on the arbor it will accommodate end plates. I use a variety of spin on felt or leather plates fir final polish and I bought a steel master lap that can accommodate magnetic nova discs. I realize you have a flat lap already, just trying to be comprehensive.

Beyond that and if budget is concerned highland park sells their cb8 (8" machine) without wheels. This would allow you to slowly add the wheels you like as you can afford them.

The type of wheels that a machine comes with would be a huge (if not deciding) factor for me. I hear sooo many complaints about the stock wheels that come on the cabking. Kingsley sometimes offers their machines with the diamond pacific nova wheels. I would spend the extra money on the nova wheels, you won't be disappointed.

Regarding used machines, if you could find a genie for $1000 I'd jump on that. I think a nova wheel set runs like $800 nowadays. Buy one used, throw some new wheels on it and get the bearings/capacitor changed (I paid $250 fir that to be done) and you'd be coming in about $500 under list price.

Other used combo machines/expandable drum machines might be worth looking into if the price is right. If you find a cheap poly arbor (or other dual arbor) I'd recommend putting an 80 grit wheel on one side and using the expandable drum on the other. Other than having to turn it off to change belts there's not much difference in the resulting cabs.

At the end of the day, maybe your vehicle issues are a blessing in disguise, giving you more time to think your purchase through.

If I had to do it all over again I'd possibly look at a kingsley machine with wider wheel spacing but I am more than satisfied with my genie!!

These are fantastic points! Thank you lapidary1234

There is a rock shop in Tacoma that sells used equipment. I don't think they do any refurbishing on them but last time I was there they had one of those gigantic old Frantom combo cabber/saw units that putting a couple of expando wheels on for other grits would work wonders. I wouldn't consider paying more than $600 for something like that though if it needed some work.

    - Rob

[whalecottagedesigns]

Nov 9, 2024 22:37:22 GMT -5 lapidary1234 said:

I have read through the comments and some excellent points were made.
Let me ask first, do you have a budget in mind?

One thing not mentioned is that 8" wheels simply move more surface inches per minute and by that logic *should cut a bit faster and last a bit longer. However 8" wheels will cost considerably more when replacement time comes.

Someone brought up sintered wheels which do last a LONG time. Of you go this route it is very important to realize and take into account that they cut differently than electroplated wheels. Typicall rule of thumb is to buy one grit size coarser than you would otherwise get. Take this with a grain of salt. I ordered a 60 grit sintered wheel hoping it would cut like an 80 and in fact it cuts more like a 120-150. My 180 sintered cuts more like a 320-360. The user rmf has tested and analyzed various wheels and came to a similar conclusion. I also spoke with Richard at kingsley about this and he told me a lot of folks want sintered wheels because of the long life span but fail to realize that they simply cut "differently" than an electroplated wheel due to the diamonds being set in the matrix as opposed to on the surface like an electroplated wheels. Just something to keep in mind if you go that route.

Beyond that, I believe most manufacturers of cabbing machines are putting g out quality products nowadays, a new member at my gem club bought a vevor and showed us some cabs he made that turned out fabulous.

Wheel space considerations are worth looking into. I know the kn8 has wider spacing which is a huge bonus to have if you decide you want to work larger pieces.

Water delivery systems are another consideration, more regarding space vs superiority. I use a genie and love the fact I don't need to worry about buckets. In fat I converted a couple older machines to use the geyser system. I've made hundreds of cabs and never had a contamination issue.

One thing to look into is whether the machine uses one long arbor run off an external motor with belt or if the motor sits in the center with the shafts coming out of it. Both have their plusses and minuses. On my genie (with center motor) I can take the whole right side spindle off in one piece with all the wheels attached. I bought an extra spindle adapter and loaded it with the finer grit wheels fir when I want that extra polish. You could also load it with 4 or even 2 1/2" wheels to do tighter inside curves.

If the machine has a 1/4"×20 threaded end on the arbor it will accommodate end plates. I use a variety of spin on felt or leather plates fir final polish and I bought a steel master lap that can accommodate magnetic nova discs. I realize you have a flat lap already, just trying to be comprehensive.

Beyond that and if budget is concerned highland park sells their cb8 (8" machine) without wheels. This would allow you to slowly add the wheels you like as you can afford them.

The type of wheels that a machine comes with would be a huge (if not deciding) factor for me. I hear sooo many complaints about the stock wheels that come on the cabking. Kingsley sometimes offers their machines with the diamond pacific nova wheels. I would spend the extra money on the nova wheels, you won't be disappointed.

Regarding used machines, if you could find a genie for $1000 I'd jump on that. I think a nova wheel set runs like $800 nowadays. Buy one used, throw some new wheels on it and get the bearings/capacitor changed (I paid $250 fir that to be done) and you'd be coming in about $500 under list price.

Other used combo machines/expandable drum machines might be worth looking into if the price is right. If you find a cheap poly arbor (or other dual arbor) I'd recommend putting an 80 grit wheel on one side and using the expandable drum on the other. Other than having to turn it off to change belts there's not much difference in the resulting cabs.

At the end of the day, maybe your vehicle issues are a blessing in disguise, giving you more time to think your purchase through.

If I had to do it all over again I'd possibly look at a kingsley machine with wider wheel spacing but I am more than satisfied with my genie!!

Great writeup! And I would like to add on a little on the sintered wheels here too, I found that they cut significantly nicer than the electroplated versions too, they "glide" beautifully on the stones, I find I can do much better prep for the 280 soft on my 220 hard now, and so have to spend less time on the 280 than before. My sintered ones were the Heirloom version from Kingsley North.
Theo