UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
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Post by UtahRockHound on Dec 24, 2008 15:17:17 GMT -5
Today I will finish my (Rolling) Rock Tumbler, and start it going.
I need another project. With this in mind, I was thinking maybe a vibratory tumbler. I have never seen one in person, but know what the basic principle is. Everyone I have seen on the Internet has a load, and you can not see the inside. Neither can I find a breakdown of how it works.
My question is, the action inside that moves the load. Does the center go up and down, around and around, or in a pendulum fashion. What causes the vibration.
If I know the basics, I can duplicate it. If you would not mind, pictures of what and how would be a great help.
Also if there is something you do not like, that would be easily changed with a vibratory tumbler, what would it be.
My thought process to actual finished product is sometimes long, but when I am done, I will post the results, good or bad.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Dec 24, 2008 16:15:24 GMT -5
Well, I'd post pics of the inside of my Thumler's Ultravibe, but it's running at the moment. If you can afford to wait, I'll get some pics for you. Others will undoubtedly share.
The Thumler's motor is mounted vertically in a cage which attaches to the bowl platform. The motor has an offset weight mounted on the shaft. This spinning weight, combined with the springs on the bowl platform, causes an up/down and circular motion. A central threaded shaft runs through the bowl and the bowl platform. The bowl is tightened onto the shaft and the lid is, as well.
The bowl is the tricky part (unless you buy one) because of the toroidal shape.
I think most of the vibes are similar, except the Lot-O, which is entirely different.
Hope that helps a little, Chuck
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Dec 24, 2008 23:32:06 GMT -5
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docharber
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2008
Posts: 693
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Post by docharber on Dec 25, 2008 0:39:04 GMT -5
Vibratory tumblers and laps both use an eccentricv cog as a spinning weight to create the vibration. my Raytech and others generally move like a coin that is ssettling to rest after being drop[ped- it wobbles in a circuklar motion and that causes the stones to circulate as they do. A friend of mine taught me how the plaps work- he worked with the owner iof Texas Lapidary to help develop (the first?) vibrating laps. Mark H.
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docharber
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2008
Posts: 693
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Post by docharber on Dec 25, 2008 0:40:14 GMT -5
Vibratory tumblers and laps both use an eccentricv cog as a spinning weight to create the vibration. my Raytech and others generally move like a coin that is ssettling to rest after being drop[ped- it wobbles in a circuklar motion and that causes the stones to circulate as they do. A friend of mine taught me how the plaps work- he worked with the owner iof Texas Lapidary to help develop (the first?) vibrating laps. Mark H.
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UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
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Post by UtahRockHound on Dec 25, 2008 1:12:58 GMT -5
I think I can see my first mistake. I was thinking the center/shaft and not the bowl is what vibrated. I have worked around heavy equipment most of my life, and I was thinking it is like a type of crusher I see in the mining industry. So unless I miss my guess, it is the entire bowl and center shaft that vibrates back and forth.
It just so happens, I have a electric oscillating polisher left over from when I run a Auto Paint Shop. I have not used it in over twenty years. Maybe it is time we sacrificed it for the greater good.
Fashioning the bowl is not a problem for me. I have the equipment to make it hard or easy depending on the style. I have a few items in mind already that are nearly usable as is. I would lean toward the metal items here I think. Once made, I do not want to replace it soon.
I am confused on one description. The coin one. Am I to picture the bowl is like a revolving pendulum so to speak, like if you tie a weight to a string and swing it in a circle (point down). If I am taking this the right way, then this method seems the one that would produce the product faster then the other type.
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Dec 25, 2008 9:38:33 GMT -5
The motor, counterweight and bowl are an integral part and suspended on dampening springs and shake as one. Care should be taken in choosing a motor as bushed/sleeved bearing motors won't handle the lateral forces caused by the counterweight as well as ball or needle type bearings (you did say you didn't want to have to replace things right? ). I still want to make some miniature ones that can do 3-5 cabs, I'm going to try the sander type one. Dr Joe .
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Post by Michael John on Dec 28, 2008 4:28:47 GMT -5
When I was moving to Pahrump from Cincinnati, I stopped in at an "Indian Jewelry" (how PC ... NOT) roadside shoppe. They were running rotary tumblers that were converted oil drums, being turned by large lawnmower engines. Even though I wasn't a rockhound back then, it made a lot of sense to me.
I have an old wood lathe out in the garage which I had thought about using as a basis for a tumbler, but decided against it because I figured-out that if I'm going to go through the trouble of designing, building, and tweaking a tumbler, it's gonna be a big sucka, and it's gonna be a vibe. Consider this ... to tumble 50-100 pounds of rock, the grit and electricity costs will be substantial, but the vibe will cost you only about 25% to run compared to a rotary tumbler. That's a HUGE difference when tumbling a lot of rock.
I've seen that 5-gallon bucket DIY vibe on the web before, and figured it could be grossly enlarged by using a truckbed lining coated galvanized washtub. The base would be simple ... a 12" thick rebar-enforced concrete slab, poured into the ground. Springs ... rip the springs off of an old Toyota at the junk yard. Motor ... 8-10 HP riding lawnmower engine ... my idea was that something resembling a PTO could be used, to provide the needed 90 degree change in direction, and more importantly, to take the direct weight off of the engine (a necessity). And that's as far as my ideas got ... far beyond my actual engineering design and fabrication abilities. It makes a lot of sense and it would be relatively cheap to do most of it, but the PTO thingy is where my "engineering knowledge" came to a grinding halt, so I haven't really given it any more thought.
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UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
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Post by UtahRockHound on Dec 28, 2008 12:40:32 GMT -5
It's funny how thoughts and process run through the brain. I like to think about what I have to construct with, and how to put it in a practical solution. I will either make or pickup missing links. Seeing how someone else does it like the large ones you seen, gives the idea birth. How we nurture it, and develop it is up to us.
I like to run all the possible ways it will fail, and design it so it will not. A heavy duty solution to the change in direction could be accomplished with a Rear End from a small truck or car. Cut it down and reset the bearings, and you have a solution. The next step would being able to keep a monster like this quiet so the neighbors could live with it. On the bright side, you could tumble/vibrate boulders. :-)
Take for example the wood lathe you have. I developed a bad allergy to processed wood. I can not get around it, or I break out in hives and have to be hospitalized. Natural wood that has not been treated, I do not have a problem with. Only processed wood. I tried to gather natural wood to work with, but it is next to impossible to get any quality wood this way. Knowing I would never use the lathe for wood again, I have begun the process of turning it into a Stone/Metal lathe. So far, it is working great. I need to add more mass for the head so it will not chatter, but I can turn soft stone into sphere's or eggs. I have turned a lot of small metal parts as well. A couple weeks ago I made some arbors to hold some diamond lap disc's in a drill chuck that is mounted on the end of a motor. After the new Chuck/Head is complete, I want to add a diamond blade to follow a pattern and shape harder stone as it turns on the lathe. You may want to think about something like this for yours.
The Vib is about to go to the next step which is construction. I have picked up or picked out the material I need to construct it.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Dec 28, 2008 13:55:13 GMT -5
Hi Utarockhound, I have a Lot"O" Vibe so here is a link to a photo of it img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/john-edward/LotO003.jpgThere is a little weight inside the fan on each side giving the vibration and it is set on two strip springs ,capacity is around 3 1/2 lbs, the motion is towards the motor as you are looking at it It works realy well Jack Yorkshire UK
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UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
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Post by UtahRockHound on Dec 28, 2008 14:57:59 GMT -5
Thanks Jack. I looked up the information on the Lot-O, and it gave me another idea of how to construct mine. Not sure if you have ever seen them, but they make a two gallon cylinder container for Freon Gas for Air Conditioners. I can get my hands on a couple of these. They are shaped much like the drum/container on the Lot-O. This will save me a lot of time in construction.
The more I study the Vibe, then more I like the idea. They work much faster then a rolling tumbler. Waiting months to get a finished product is hard for me.
Not sure if the prices are competitive, but when researching this topic, I found a site called therockshed.com. They carry a wide variety of grit and media in large or small quantities. Has anyone purchased from them.
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Post by Michael John on Dec 29, 2008 1:36:54 GMT -5
Hehehe, yup, the rear end from a small car would suit the purpose ... maybe the same car that the springs come from LOL.
The sound issue could be easily solved by building a big box to go over it. By insulating the inside with progressively more dense insulation (4 or 5 layers), you'd deaden a wide range of frequencies which the tumbler will produce ... like the walls in a pro recording studio.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Dec 29, 2008 4:26:28 GMT -5
Hi Utarockhound Here is the link to Rockshed where I got mine (a 220Volt european voltage ) therockshed.com/I know the shape of the Freaon cylinder but it would that be steel and these vibes a extreemly agressive and would wear the cylinder away ? the shape is good though. Simular to a plastic ball valve float in a water tank? (supose thats to small) ? Tom (conrock) gave some help in buying and starting with a Vibe which has been shared on RTH if you want a copy of a Excelent Vibe polishing recepie send me a Email john@matco.me.uk or contact Tom direct. On thing I would say is that the weights on these motors are very small and the bottom spring's are also thin simular to a strong clock spring with a wood dowel fixed (Araldited) at the correct point off max vibration Hope all goes well Jack yorkshire UK
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bikiniduck
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2008
Posts: 6
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Post by bikiniduck on Jan 6, 2009 23:13:11 GMT -5
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UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
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Post by UtahRockHound on Jan 7, 2009 12:23:47 GMT -5
The picture I really need to see is the inside of an empty one. I need to get and idea of contour and spacing. I will be starting on this project real soon.
Thanks BD, the videos are great. I like how you worked out the bugs for cutting the rings. I have seen a lot of Hacky Sacks, but never one made of rings. I hope this goes well for you.
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Post by connrock on Jan 9, 2009 7:03:47 GMT -5
The cheapest and easiest vibe polisher I now of is made from a 2 liter soda bottle turned upside down with avacuum cleaner motor attached to the bottle with electricians tape. the shaft on the motor has a piece of 1/4" key stock taped to it for vibration. connrock
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drjo
fully equipped rock polisher
Honduran Opal & DIY Nut
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,581
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Post by drjo on Jan 10, 2009 9:20:41 GMT -5
And this works better than shaking the bottle by hand? ;D
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