docharber
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2008
Posts: 693
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Post by docharber on Jan 11, 2009 15:07:39 GMT -5
I have seen some threads that really scare me. SOme of you folks are using cat litter and similar pans as suymps for your Work Force saws and I really cringe to see the whole maching sitting in a pan of water that's nearly up to the motor housing. One slosh and ZAP!. i appreciate the problem with the tray as it comes- it's shallow and you have to refill it often. The slanted sides also make sloshing a likely event. Anyone have ideas about a way to provide a deeper, more confined sump that won't slosh?
Mark H.
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Post by Michael John on Jan 11, 2009 15:33:17 GMT -5
It's not a sump ... the blade is in the water.
The water doesn't slosh around ... if it does, then you should be using a more solid table.
The water in the pan slowly goes down as you use it. Just keep a 5 gallon bucket of water handy and add to the pan about every 15 minutes. No big deal at all. I don't see the need to reinvent the wheel ... it works fine ... just use it.
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Post by BuiltonRock on Jan 11, 2009 18:48:07 GMT -5
I have had my WF in a tub for well over a year and cut a ton of stuff. No shocking moments yet. I have the water level marked and it sets on a solid surface. John
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UtahRockHound
spending too much on rocks
Sometimes your the Windshield, sometimes your the Rock.
Member since May 2008
Posts: 301
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Post by UtahRockHound on Jan 11, 2009 19:06:46 GMT -5
I try to keep quiet and let people do as they please, but I have to agree with Docharber.
As they say, and accident only happens once. Then it is a fatality.
I have a WF, and I know just how close it is. A cheap $5 pump from Harbor Freight is much cheaper then a trip to the hospital. I just hate to see anyone get hurt. It is only safe until it happens.
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Post by Bikerrandy on Jan 11, 2009 21:39:20 GMT -5
This scares the crap out of me as well. I had to review all of the "Summary of Mishaps" when I was a safety petty officer in the Navy. Electrical safety was always the biggest one. An electrical shock from something emursed in water would be much worse than a dry shock, only takes one time to stop your heart.
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Post by beefjello on Jan 11, 2009 22:48:37 GMT -5
You should be using a GFI with the WF, or any Lapidary equipment for that matter.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 11, 2009 23:42:45 GMT -5
The GFCI is really important. At the risk of sounding dumb, I just learned that the ground fault I commonly plugged into my GFCI outlet defeated the purpose as they cancel each other out. I thought I was being doubly safe.
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docharber
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2008
Posts: 693
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Post by docharber on Jan 12, 2009 21:29:41 GMT -5
Glad to see all the response. I use my saw on the front porch, plugged into a GFI protected outlet. It sits near the front door and I have irrational fears (or maybe not) that one of the kids or the dogs or I will run into it when it's in operation and the operator will be sitting in a puddle completing a circuit and getting a new "fro. I, for one, gave up perms in the 70's. I'm just worried that folks might not anticipate the unexpected and through a confluence of rthe stars, the spirits of Captain Morgan and Jose Cuervo, naturaal clumsiness and electricianal impairment, somebody could get hurt. I seem to run out of water pretty fast when the blade is peoperly dipped. I can't remove the tray without tipping and sloshing out toward the motor housing. I seem to run low on water a lot and find myself sticking stuff under the pan to elevate it and keep the blade in the water. I like the idea of a cheap pump like the ones used in tiny fountains. On old water pick could even provide a suitable pump, which could deliver water to the rear of the blade guard. I have that already and I could eliminate the tray altogether that way, just let it run off the top. OOOOOOOOOH LAWDY! I'M THINKING! IT BURNS!!!
About the two GFIs cancelling each other out- can't see how that could happen. They are used in just that configuration in most homes. A GFI built into a hairdryer plug, for example, which is plugged into a GFI protected circuit ina bathroom, works fine. Codes universally require GFIs for outdoor outlets, garage , kitchen and bathroom outlets anymore. It would just be a matter of which trips first. Some homes have GFIs wired into the circuit box, but most don't and our electrician doesn' rcommend these.
Mark H.
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Post by puppie96 on Jan 13, 2009 2:39:15 GMT -5
There's also such a thing as a GFI adaptor that plugs into a non-GFI wall outlet. This was recommended in the docs for my saw & since I was going to use it in the garage (not GFI outlets) we went to the hardware store for a GFI adaptor. I was surprised it was as hard to find in the store as it was. The sales people gave us a blank look at first but finally someone knew where they were.
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Post by Michael John on Jan 13, 2009 3:48:49 GMT -5
I use a beat-up old extension cord.
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Post by Tweetiepy on Jan 13, 2009 9:13:46 GMT -5
I haven't used my WF saw since two summers ago - because I plugged mine into the GFI outside.
I'm terrified of having a mishap and having hubby running all over not knowing what to do or worse, not even noticing my dying body by the shed!
I cannot find a GFI extension cord - I get the weird looks too - "crazy woman in my hardware store doesn't know what she's talking about and wasting my time!"
However my combo isn't plugged into a GFI because the motor is outside the unit itself.
I'd really like to use the WF again but can't until I can get access to the GFI by the shed or the one on the bathroom counter. - "What? I'm spraying you with rock snot while you're trying to wash in the bathtub? Take it like a man & stop whinning! Go wash in the snow!"
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Post by BuiltonRock on Jan 13, 2009 14:11:17 GMT -5
All equipment close to water needs a GFI. No big deal to pull your receptacles and wire one in each circuit. There is so much water being thrown by a WF in a tub or not the risk is the same. The GFI will trip the split second it feels ground. John
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highplainsdrifter
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,266
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Post by highplainsdrifter on Jan 13, 2009 16:57:36 GMT -5
All wet lapidary equipment should be GFCI grounded. The best option is to wire in a GFCI outlet. You can also purchase GFCI extension cords (used for outdoor construction work) and GFCI plug adaptors. I have seen both of these at my local Home Depot and I'm sure you could find them online. They are usually yellow.
A GFCI monitors the current balance between hot & neutral (supply and return) and trips when an imbalance occurs. Having two GFCI adaptors in a row will not change the current load on either, so they do not cancel out. Also, having two in a row does not provide additional protection unless one of them fails.
Definitely worth the expense for piece of mind.
GFCI's typically take 25 milliseconds to respond, so you'll still get a painful shock if not careful.
Be safe out there, HPD
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fanatic
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2007
Posts: 233
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Post by fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 19:36:37 GMT -5
The more I thought about this the more safety makes sense so I visited my Home depot to see what they had. The answer is pretty much anything you might want in a GFCI. Besides replacing the outlet with a GFCI, they had single outlet plugin adapters, and a large variety of extension cords. I opted to get a 2 foot pigtail type with three outlets and the GFI is built into the center of the cord. Pretty heavy duty. I went this way because I use two 500 watt halogen lamps so I can see better when I'm cutting and now I can plug the light into the GFCI as well. Better safe......
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on Jan 20, 2009 21:20:11 GMT -5
There's also such a thing as a GFI adaptor that plugs into a non-GFI wall outlet. This was recommended in the docs for my saw & since I was going to use it in the garage (not GFI outlets) we went to the hardware store for a GFI adaptor. I was surprised it was as hard to find in the store as it was. The sales people gave us a blank look at first but finally someone knew where they were. I have a GFCI adaptor that plugs into a regular wall outlet... it came with my GP-6 cab grinder. Dan
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Post by NatureNut on Jan 20, 2009 22:12:02 GMT -5
You guys should ask Amber about this.... this is her field (Bejewelme).
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Post by Bejewelme on Jan 20, 2009 23:12:00 GMT -5
All wet lapidary equipment should be plugged into a GFIreceptacle end of story.
I think High Plains offered the most complete technical answer in his response. The initial problem seems to be adding water to the saw while it is plugged in, that is a big NO NO. I would definately unplug the saw, and then fill properly. Also having the saw on a solid surface is best. I would not leave it plugged into the wall where kids could possibly trip on it, or better yet be inclidened to try it out.
I guess I will get prices on all these items for ya tomorrow. But the best soultion is wiring your electrical receptical with a GFI.
I am not an electrican, I just sell to them!!!
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Jan 23, 2009 21:43:31 GMT -5
Yep, I agree. All the people on this board that use a WF saw and I don't think anyone has gotten a shock. If ya do get zapped, it only hurts for a minute...
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Post by sitnwrap on Jan 24, 2009 13:13:12 GMT -5
This past fall, I was cutting with my little WF and when I went to turn it off felt tingling in my hand. Seemed real strange to me like a tiny electical current similar to what doctors will use to stimulate muscle.
The following week, I started up again and the same thing was happening only this time while I was cutting the rock. After that, I retired the saw. I wasn't going to further press my luck.
Seems to me that even if the WF is completely safe, the extension chords used can become damaged without realizing it which can cause hazards also.
I just thought that I would voice what I had experienced.
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Mudshark
fully equipped rock polisher
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,083
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Post by Mudshark on Jan 24, 2009 14:14:30 GMT -5
Fanatic, 2 500 watt halogens?What kind of sunscreen do you use?
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