montezuma
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2009
Posts: 21
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Post by montezuma on Dec 8, 2009 9:38:45 GMT -5
I've been looking at the method of how wire wrapping is done. The first thing I noticed is the obvious, the wires need to be tight and smooth. The second is to not have the wires poking out.
I have looked at this from an analytical view and was wondering if someone has actually wrapped their cabs this way or, if your good at wrapping, could you try this and tell us if it works or not. If it doesn't, explain the flaw in the logic.
In the crude drawing, the 3 wires are color coded. The blue wire would be the same length or longer than the rest. In theory, if you do the cab from the top, leaving the ends up, wrap around and make the loops out of the red and yellow. Finish by wrapping the blue around all 5 wires, working from the top down, tucking the blue wire in.
This way, only one wire is ever showing.
Obviously, I have never done this but it should work in theory. My only flaw is how tight the loop area is, so it doesn't "unravel".
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nancyf
has rocks in the head
Wired Cowgirl
Member since April 2007
Posts: 629
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Post by nancyf on Dec 8, 2009 10:34:29 GMT -5
OK, no offense, but why should this work in theory? What holds the cab in? It would pop out! Unless you have it grooved...but why would you use 3 wires if this were the case? When using mutiple wires, they HAVE to be joined together by binding them with more wire. Preferably half-round wire. Maybe I am just dense and not understanding what you are trying to say. I do know this, if there isn't prongs or wire bent in to secure a stone...it will pop out (unless the cab is grooved).
Look at it this way...when you see a stone that seems to have one strip of metal holding it...this is because the stone is cut in such a way that the metal can be slightly bent over the edges of the stone to hold it in (bezel setting)...or there has been a groove cut into the stone so that the metal rests inside the stones edge. A stone will not stay in other wise. ;D
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montezuma
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2009
Posts: 21
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Post by montezuma on Dec 8, 2009 10:49:33 GMT -5
Sorry about that, I didn't mean that the wires wouldn't be bent around the cab, only at hiding the loose ends. The wires would also have the reinforcements wraps around the edges. Some things have to be. I had noticed in the pictures that there were a few extra wires that could be hidden and, in concept, could save wasting wire in the long run. All my comments are in theory and should be examined by a seasoned wire wrapper If you had 3 spools of wire and start from the top, add reinforcement wraps as you go, you wouldn't have to cut the wire until you're at the top again. In theory, no waste. In practicality, it may not be possible to do that. The wires may get in the way of each other, etc. As I said, I have never done this and I'm throwing this out as an idea. Shoot it down if it doesn't make sense, please. But if it does, I'd like to know before I try and that may be a while. Added: I looked at the "Complete wire wrap tutorial" again and it looks like he does something similar to what I'm suggesting in picture 31.jpg but he used the "extra" wire for added design and then added a wire to wrap the loops. I have looked at a few of the other examples and that's where I see more loose ends. I guess I'm looking at the cab as the important feature, more then the wire. I do like the "Complete wire wrap tutorial" finished product but it wouldn't be my style. I would appreciate the thoughts of Bikerrandy, who did the tutorial, since it looks like he would have a good idea if it would work or not.
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Larry
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2008
Posts: 267
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Post by Larry on Dec 8, 2009 11:43:07 GMT -5
Ok, having clarified that the bends and binds would be there and were just left out because they were an assumed neccessity, I think the concept should work. There's a bunch of different ways to go about wrapping and this can be another way. This style would be, as you say, to show the cab and have no extra wire work added.
If I were to try it, I would opt for leaving the blue wire the same as the others and using a separate bind wire at the top. I wouldn't trust the bind though so I would probably do 1 or 2 times around for one bind and fold some of the slack over the back then do a complete bind to cover all but the bail. This would assure that the wires don't catch and pull the one unbent end out of the wrap.
One other thing to consider would be to make sure the parts where the wire is bent over the stone is done as you go and not after the top is secured. This is because the bending of the wire may pull some slack out of the top bind and, in extreme circumstances, may pull one of the wires completely out.
Of course I am not a seasoned wrapper (about 1 year experience) so I may be way off base here. I did, however, stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I may be more on target than I think.
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montezuma
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2009
Posts: 21
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Post by montezuma on Dec 8, 2009 11:59:13 GMT -5
LOL, the Holiday Inn will do it every time.
You're hit the nail on the head, how tight a wrap on the finish and how much wire would be needed.
I'm a computer analyst by trade and only looking at the rocks, wire wrap and tumbling for a couple weeks now. No experience, knowledge or equipment yet, just in theory mode.
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Post by rockmanken on Dec 8, 2009 12:42:50 GMT -5
O.K. Here is my :2cents: Throw theory out the window and go to Hobby Lobby and get some cheap craft wire and pick up a gravel out of the roadway and start twisting wires and use good old common sense and you will see how easy or hard it can be. The first one is going to be frustrating. Theory and a dollar isn't going to get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so just do it. Just do it. JUST DO IT. JUST DO IT. That ought to be clear as mud. ;D ;D ;D Ken P.S. Normally I'm not nasty, but putting the cart before the horse got to me.
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Post by superioragates on Dec 8, 2009 12:47:00 GMT -5
when I first started wrapping, I tried starting from the top and working my way down...this is a pain in the you know where! Maybe someone with 10 hands could manage it, but I sure couldn't get it done. The stone flies all around, and if you do eventually get it to stay in the wire, by the time you get done, the wire is all mangled up! LOL I struggled with it, but maybe someone else could do it. It's much easier working it the way Randy's tut shows. Just mho Marie
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montezuma
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2009
Posts: 21
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Post by montezuma on Dec 8, 2009 14:54:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, so far.
Yes, I will be trying this myself but not until after the holidays.
Also, I take no offense to any comments, we are adults and this is not a "one way only" process. There are many opinions and I hope to hear them all.
Randy has a very logical way of doing the wrap and it's a good tutorial. That's what I had hoped to find when I found the forum, a wealth of info. ;D
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Post by rockmanken on Dec 8, 2009 16:07:14 GMT -5
Here is a picture I did many moons ago when I liked to wirewrap. One on left is llanite in sterling and one on right is ocean jasper in gold filled. Both of these were started at the top with the bail loop. Ken
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Larry
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2008
Posts: 267
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Post by Larry on Dec 8, 2009 17:42:33 GMT -5
I like those wraps btw Ken. Ken posted one a while back that was the first one I saw like this and like that method. I agree with Ken to just grab some cheap wire and give it a shot. I do that when I have a concept and not sure if it will fly. There are many ways to wire wrap and many different styles. You can tell the difference with the people that have the creative side and the people that have the technical side to follow procedures. You can wrap the way everybody wraps and that will get you a lot of nice pieces. The people that step outside that zone and come up with something, those are the ones that have the creative side. The one style i suggest you not try to copy is DeeDolce's... that will just drive you insane before you finish one piece I saw Randy's tutorial after I had been wrapping a short time and noticed my steps were different. At first i felt I was all wrong but then realized different is ok. **(BTW Randy's tutorial is the most comprehensive and well put together one on wrapping you'll see for free.) In short, give it a go and see how it works. Variety is great and I hope it comes together as planned. If I get the time to throw together a quickie, I'll let you know how it held up.
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Post by Bikerrandy on Dec 8, 2009 18:04:21 GMT -5
This would definitely work, you just need to sit down with some craft wire and figure out the best way to do it. Your drawing looks alot like this wrap that I did for my mother in law.......
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kentuckyrocker
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 217
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Post by kentuckyrocker on Dec 8, 2009 18:21:56 GMT -5
All wrapping starts with a concept ;D It wouldn't unravel - not if you got good tension on the binding wrap. Wire isn't like string in that way. I tell ya what is puzzling me, perhaps I am missing it -totally possible- at any rate how are the wires holding the stone in place? Without a groove- just wrapped tight around the stone? I have been trying that idea this week with a pendent I have that is drilled. My idea was to use the wire as a mounting more than a wrap- then have my binding wire come through the drilled hole- weeeeeelllllllllllll I am having one heckuva time getting the wire to stay put lol! For me, I am going to have to 1.) use Randy's tutorial yet again to bind the wires together- that helps them hold in place better- and 2.) if that one doesn't do it, then I am going to have to curve the wire across the front on the bottom. Now granted it is an oval - maybe that makes a difference- and granted I am as uncoordinated as a duck with 2 left feet - I am positive that makes a difference....... Please give it a go and post pics, good or bad. I love seeing concepts come to life - regardless if the concept succeeds the first 100 times or not
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montezuma
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2009
Posts: 21
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Post by montezuma on Dec 8, 2009 18:45:26 GMT -5
Kentuckyrocker, I can't quite picture that in my head and I can't answer it without experience either. Randy, thanks for the comments and picture, it looks great.
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aunuts
fully equipped rock polisher
Some days are gold, some are rocks. Either is cool.
Member since March 2006
Posts: 1,110
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Post by aunuts on Dec 9, 2009 1:27:37 GMT -5
Hi Montezuma, I believe I understand what you are trying to do. The problem I see with using the wire you are actually using on the stone (not the wraps) in order to bind the bail, is that it would make the bail bulky. Also, it would be VERY difficult to make a good bend that wouldn't look awkward where you start wrapping with that wire. The reason we generally use (at least it's the reason I do) 1/2 round wire, is because it makes a good clean wrap without making it bulky. As opposed to using the square wire we use on the actual stone. It's not that difficult to conceal your wire ends on the bails. Hope this helps.
& welcome aboard the forum. you'll find some wonderful people on here.
jo
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