SteveHolmes
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Post by SteveHolmes on Jan 25, 2010 15:28:26 GMT -5
This was found in Utah. Not sure exactly where but either the Henry Mountains area or Cedar Mtn. area outside of Price. At first I thought it was possibly Coprolite...but after I cut it...I'm just not sure. The COLORS are REAL! It's unbelieveable in person! Any help please? Thanks, Steve
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 25, 2010 17:51:30 GMT -5
Dang that's pretty Steve! Afraid I'm no help though. Never seen anything like that from that part of Utah. Only similar ones I've seen were from the San Rafael Reef area near Green River and Goblin Valley. Another similar nodule is called Cisco Agate and is from NE of Moab, Utah in the vicinity of the old ghost town of Cisco....Mel
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elementary
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Post by elementary on Jan 25, 2010 22:52:58 GMT -5
HEY! All right, I'm upset! Mel just told me on one of my posts that I had stuff from the San Rafael Reef area! See below: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=35662That's two similar ID's in less than 48 hours! Mel, Have you run out of locations to pull out of your hat? You're beginning to repeat yourself! Is next week's special location, "middle of oregon" Or "Big Bend area of Texas???" Or are we, the posting people at fault? Not enough challenge? (Whatever the case, I wish I spent more time hanging out in your backyard...) (also - do you have any reference material for this region of Utah so I can research the area?) Oh, this is Steve's post..., Steve, I just gotta say: Whatta hunk...of stone! That is in-cred-i-ble!!! Is that the only one you possess, or are there others waiting to be magically cut in half and displayed before our gawking eyes?
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Post by sbreed on Jan 25, 2010 23:10:38 GMT -5
Elementary, I hope you are only joking around with Mel !
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 26, 2010 1:04:33 GMT -5
*LOL* Lowell, I calls 'em the bestest I can! Utah is about of the only state that has those odd bubbly or warty pink to red agate skinned nodules and that San Rafael Swell ( reef) seems to be sort of the epicenter for those specimens. Think that's more of that Morrison or Chinle formation stuff with all the bright mineral salts that make all the pretty bands in the sediments and colors up nodules and wood real well too. I got a lot of my information from some old folks who used to sell at the Nipomo Gem Show in August I think. Couple of sets of folks there hunt that area a lot. I've only been up there once and didn't have a good map ( used a gem trails book) so I didn't find much at all. Only have a couple of specimens in my collection and those were bought off those folks. I've cut a lot and many are duds too so It's not that easy to score a really good one. I think, if I'm remembering right, the agate lexicon has map co ordinates for the Cisco and San Rafael swell agate beds .....Mel
PS: Sheri, elementary and I are ole buddies so we hack on each other a bit *L*....Mel
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Post by Woodyrock on Jan 26, 2010 1:52:02 GMT -5
Steve: I think you should post this one to as soon as possible for testing! Actually, since Woodside is close by to Price, and I shall be exploring the area this spring, maybe I will get super lucky and find one of these, or where they come from, but then we are using the Gem Trail book as our main guide. Woody
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elementary
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Post by elementary on Jan 26, 2010 3:27:46 GMT -5
Thanks Mel, for the information. If I haven't said it officially, I'm in awe of your knowledge. BUT...It drives me nuts that there's not a better illustrated book for American Agates. The German Agate books are pretty, but as you've said in the past, weak when it comes to the American localities. What I'd love is for someone to put together a downloadable file(or files separated by state) with photos and basic locality information (general location/not hunting guide) so we, as purchasers/inheritors/etc, can identify what we come across. Much of the main agate/jasper locations are well-documented, but when you get to these secondary locales such as the San Rafael region, there's nothing illustrated on the web. The closest image I've found (this relates to your nodule, Steve) is from this website: agateworld.co.uk/worldagates.htmlIt shows the same pattern of outer red/darker band/inside red pattern that your (Steve's) nodule possesses, except in different thicknesses and the central formation is different. It's probably not related, but it shows how limited our research material is. Anyways, For those interested: The Agate Lexicon information: for San Rafael Agate/Nodules (2502-2504) snr.unl.edu/data/geologysoils/agates/AgateLexicon.asp?Name=S(lists Lapidary Journal Vol 6 no. 6 as a info source) Cisci Agates (745) snr.unl.edu/data/geologysoils/agates/AgateLexicon.asp?Name=CHenry Mountain (1304-1305) snr.unl.edu/data/geologysoils/agates/AgateLexicon.asp?Name=HSteve, I apologize. I feel like I hijacked your thread. Lowell
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SteveHolmes
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Post by SteveHolmes on Jan 26, 2010 8:10:47 GMT -5
Lowell....No need to apologize. You seriously ADDED to my thread and that's what it's supposed to be like. With folks like Mel and yourself here.....it makes this place such a wealth of knowledge and makes me realize how much I still have to learn! Thanks! Mel....You might bu more correct than I thought at first. It probably does come from the San Rafael region. I don't even know if you can hunt that area anymore...I believe it is all a natl. park. Maybe there's still a portion you can hunt rocks in...but I am not sure. Woody...I'll check and see if I can get some old time locations to hunt when your down. Sometimes these old timers don't want to give out secret spots... BTW...this nodule is listed on e-bay if anyones interested. Started at 15.99..... Steve
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 26, 2010 9:17:37 GMT -5
Man Lowell, I'm totally in agreement with you on the book comment. For a country with such a huge number of different agate and jasper locations, the books available on the subject are really sparse. I buy almost every one I see and most are just ehh. It's very frustrating! Having sort of assembled my own book on agates and jaspers, and already being into five huge loose leaf volumes and still growing, I suspect it's the sheer amount of material that makes the task almost impossible. If you take the Cady Mountains for example, you could almost do a book on just the types and locations for agate and jasper i just that one small area ....Mel
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elementary
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Post by elementary on Jan 26, 2010 22:24:41 GMT -5
I believe I read somewhere (his Geodes book, I believe) that Brad Cross is putting together an American Book on agates. That would be nice, but I would expect it to be still limited in scope, unless it reached close to the Zenz book size - as there is so much material, as you say.
Well, now I'm thinking that I should start a new thread on online websites that might help ID material - I have a whole page of bookmarks - some with limited use, and some that are equivalent to online museums. (Most of the better sites are well-known, but might as well put them all in one place.)
What I've done myself (besides adding to the four binders you left behind) is scour the internet for images of agates/jaspers from anywhere I can find - seller's websites, personal collections, professional institutions, etc. I save the images into files based on either country or state with the location listed alphabetically. The files are getting huge, but I spend an hour or more a week just on this project alone. I feel like I am making an American based version of Zenz's book. I 'steal' from anyone I can. (I added some pigeon blood agate from your(Steve's) Website yesterday while researching that stuff.) The problem is that I borrow the images from these sites without permission (not that I'd ever sell or distribute the material) so sharing with others is out. The other problem is that I constantly have to double check a person's stated location when I think they might be wrong. Oregon thundereggs are BRUTAL at times. So many websites with various levels of information.
I'd love to see this forum used to create a database built from images from our collections. Think anybody would want to contribute to a project like this?
Lowell
And Steve, thank you for your kind words, but I must post a disclaimer that I am nowhere near Mel in aptitude, experience, (and if anybody has missed it) generosity. I'm just glad you allowed me to ramble on your dime, and if anybody besides me benefited, then I'm happy. (Love your work and always eager to open your posts when I see them.)
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 26, 2010 23:39:36 GMT -5
Lowell, That's pretty much how I put together my book too. The main problem I encountered is the lack of good location or identification information on a lot of the new material I come across. I usually don't add a new material without multiple matching identities etc. It's truly unbelievable how much really bad information is on the web *L*. Lots of stuff not even in the right class of rocks , for instance, lots travertine and sedimentary stuff sold as jasper or agate. I was researching plant fossils this evening ( palm and cycad) and came across a seller's site which was supposedly selling these materials. Not one of his identifications was right. He had chapenite listed as fern even with the genus listed. He had palm root listed as fern. He had crinoidal limestone with brachiopod fossils listed as cycad etc etc. He was also declaring "everything" rare!!! and charging huge prices and the most appalling thing was some of it had sold. And again, as I've often said, I find it simply amazing the on e-bay and such, you never see an expensive material misidentified and sold as something cheap but you sure do see cheap material ID'd as rare stuff and sold expensive *L* Fancy that.....Mel
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SteveHolmes
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Post by SteveHolmes on Jan 27, 2010 8:01:44 GMT -5
I think a database would be really GREAT! I sell on e-bay and when I don't know what it is I may come on here and post an ID help and if I still don't get a positive ID...I'll list it as unknown. I get disappointed when I come across auctions that declare something rare and valuable, when it really isn't. That's just the way it is....and hopefully folks will do a little research, ask the seller questions before they bid on items. I may be getting into some old collection stuff shortly (material collected in the 50's) and I may be needing more ID help but I'm sure I could add to a database. I think we all know that Mel is actually a walking rockhounders dictionary! We ALL know who to ask when it comes to needing something ID'd and I think I've only been able to stump him once. That's an excellent track record. Steve
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 27, 2010 10:00:10 GMT -5
Steve and Lowell, I think an online data base would be fantastic! I'd be willing to contribute a lot of information. We could do agate and jasper. The Agate lexicon has a fine list of types but of course, no pictures. The Lexicon could be used for the list, then we'd just have to find pics of examples of all the stuff on the list *L* No small task that! I can see the real difficulty would be how to store all the linked pics. I have to clean out my Photobucket account every once and awhile and then all the linked images would disappear. I'm not very computer savvy but maybe one of you can find a cure for this problem. Nothing I like better than Iding and taking rock pics so count me in if you guys want to try this.....Mel
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NorthShore-Rocks
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Post by NorthShore-Rocks on Jan 27, 2010 10:14:03 GMT -5
I'd certainly contribute from this zone if you'd need it.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 27, 2010 10:35:06 GMT -5
You know, seeing North's post, what we could do to limit the number of pics any particular person has to keep permanently in his Photobucket account, is divide up the country into zones so a single person only has to add pics from zones he's particularly familiar with. For instance, I've collected heavily in California, Nevada, Texas, Pacific Northwest etc but not at all in the NE or SE US. For the foreign stuff if we wanted to include it, we could pool our resources too. Shoot, this club is huge and we have folks from all over. We should, with a little thought and our own collections, be able to cover the US better than any single author and we should be able to fill in gaps with shots of purchased stuff too. We would need to figure out how to make the database searchable by alphabetically organizing the listings or some such thing though..Mel
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Jan 27, 2010 13:16:15 GMT -5
I think the database is a great idea! I'll contribute what I can. If you haven't seen this book, it's beautiful: www.theimagebooks.com/It's loaded with high quality photos. Chuck
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 27, 2010 17:29:14 GMT -5
Yeah Chuck, I've got that book and it's pretty nice. The photos are wonderful and the identifications are good too but again, for US materials it's just the tip of the iceberg....Mel
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elementary
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Post by elementary on Jan 27, 2010 22:02:17 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this for a while, and I'm excited that we might be able to do it! There are two ways of going about this (that I've thought of - someone might have a better idea.) No matter what, we would need a guarantee by the image provider that they have rights to that photo. I use a ton of copywritten material for personal needs, but what we are considering has to be usable by the public. The first way to do this is Photobucket Accounts by State with a moderator(s) for each account, or one moderator for all accounts, with a backup in case something happens to the main person. The material is posted here, on this site, for initial review or commentary, then the moderator takes and places it into the Photobucket. There could be a thread for each state and an initial request for identifiable material. (We can also send requests to various websites and online dealers for permission to use some of their photos). Once a piece is accepted and added to the directory, Photobucket would also be great because people could post their comments regarding each piece - namely additional information rather than (great piece!) etc. The only problem I see with this is possible future cost if the size of the account gets too large - plus the concern of how we organize it should be discussed (alphabetical by location would seem to be best, as some material is known by multiple names). The second way is to create a website (or find someone here, nudge nudge) who would be able to provide a link where a PDF file could be downloaded - again by either state or material (for example, cycads/ferns cross state lines so those could each have their own file). You would need a person to create the file for a state's material and provide it to the webmaster. I would think that files would be updated and replaced at regular intervals so new information can be added. The issue here is the amount of files needed. One per state (oregon would probably need to be split between t-eggs and agate/jasper sites) adds up fairly quickly. International considerations (I think) would be a secondary concern. (It's great that recently the world has been so opened up and material from every corner of the globe is being found - but that is a HUGE amount of data to record - and be less relevant to the goals of this project. I like the idea of USA/Canada and possibly Mexico - especially the old stuff that might not be as available now. A few initial resources (well known) www.agateswithinclusions.com/index.htmlwww.achate.at/www.sailorenergy.net/Minerals/MineralMain.html(Dwarves' earth treasures-excellent site.) www.worldofjaspers.com/index.htmlwww.arizonaagate.com/homewww.thundereggs.co.uk/usindex.htmlwww.agate-nodule.com/index.htmThere's more, but these are more private collections posted on the web than set up as reference material. They're great, but I will post most of them later. What is interesting is that a number of Asian collections have appeared, and Europe is definitely posting images. Two asian below: chomuga.web.fc2.com/index.htmlwww.lithos-graphics.com/rocks/agate-index.htmlI hope I've increased your bookmark page.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 28, 2010 0:08:07 GMT -5
Wow that is all beyond my meager computer skills. I figured we'd have to have someone set up a website or create a database heading here at the RTH and transfer images we all had stored on our Photobuckets. Have no idea how to make a search engine for a database. I also didn't know you could even transfer images from here to Photobucket and am not sure there's a way to do any kind of name or alphabet search of photobucket either. This seems it will be pretty complicated so we need one of you computer wizards to chime in on how we might do this. Also if we made photo contributions purely voluntary with a disclaimer that pics are for public use we wouldn't have to get into the whole issue of image ownership....Mel
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elementary
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Post by elementary on Jan 28, 2010 1:31:39 GMT -5
Mel, I'm no computer genius either. Photobucket, though, probably wouldn't be the best method. Your point about transferring photos sounds right. Truthfully, I think a document that is downloadable would be the easiest method both both creating and distributing. In researching a place where files can be shared and uploaded, I found this. www.4shared.com/faq.jsp#q9I find I can store 10 GB worth of material, in files that can reach 200 MB in size. My meager math skills tell me that could give us 50 200 MB files. It says:"Your files can be shared with anyone, including non registered users. As soon as you upload your files on 4shared you will be able to share your file with others using an access link. You can email the link, place it on your web page, or publish it on forums or blogs. " It sounds like what we need. & This is just one free file sharing site out there, and there are several. If I am thinking this through - An editor/producer compiles the index document from the shared images (which should be reviewed for accuracy), saves it to this site, then posts a link on RTH to download the file to anyone - including non-registered people. These files would be marked with a date of last their last update so people can make sure they have the latest version. Files are named by state. (I know this produces lots of files, but I don't see an easier method.) Contents are organized by site. Index in back of each file for locating material known by different names. If we want to get this project going, hypothetically we can begin acquiring images tomorrow. We just need to discuss how we want to present to material (information of specimen/site), what we focus on first, and who we want to edit/produce the documents. I would love to take on the job (if you trust me). I'm editing the Ventura Gem and Mineral Newsletter presently, and have a program that would create a viable product. Thoughts? Thanks Lowell
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