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Post by tntmom on Jan 2, 2011 20:31:17 GMT -5
Finished my first batch in my brand new Christmas present Lot-O that replaced my old Raytech. Learned a lot! First.... the Raytech - too much water hammers the rocks. Second.... the Lot-O - not enough water hammers the rocks! Everything was going great until I got to the polish stage. I washed, rinsed, changed barrels, fired her up and within a minute or so could hear the rocks clanking together. Shut her down immediately but not before damage was done. Realized that I needed more water in the final polish, slows the action down nicely. I was upset initially, but then shrugged it off. They can be re-run as many other stones I've done before... Here's some pictures, (Oh and if Dr. Joe reads this, well... threw my very first dremel cab into the final stages to polish up, you told me "to be careful with HIM because we all know what happened to HIM!" Grrrrr... yep... he got a crack. First pictures are mostly of the preforms, they did pretty well, first one taken outside but not sunny enough, second inside under OttLite Hd bulb with no flash, couldn't use the flash because all you could see was the flash... indoors Some more, amethyst, rose, smokey and tiger eye Amethyst and Rose, ok but as you will see in the next pictures, most had internal fractures and chips that happened in the first part of the polish stage The blue quartz.... started this batch trying to finish these buggers. Only a couple turned out ok, will be re-running this entire next picture in the next 120/220 load. Shiny doesn't matter, they still have crystallized pits that show up in every stage!!! (STILL MY NEMESIS) Lastly, I am so ashamed of these ones.... I have to admit though, that these are definitely the shiniest "mutilated" stones I have ever done. These are smokey quartz and coming out of 1000 looked so nice. The first minute or two in polish banged the heck out of them. They all have to be redone. Sad thing is, they all have internal fractures now, but I can at least smooth out the chips. Throw your' advice at me! Posting the good with the bad is the only way I can get the wisdom and knowledge that I need! TY all! ~Krystee
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snuffy
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2009
Posts: 4,319
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Post by snuffy on Jan 2, 2011 20:35:44 GMT -5
Ijust posted on your other thread for you to read.
snuffy
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Jan 2, 2011 20:41:12 GMT -5
Hmm, really really happy to be reading your posts Krystee. I've heard that the Lot-O's took some getting used to. Now I know my first couple of batches are not going to be filled with anything delicate. Thanks and keep up the posting! You have a fan here...
Think my first couple of batches are going to be road stone or similar...lol...
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Post by tntmom on Jan 2, 2011 20:44:06 GMT -5
Thanks Snuffy! I'll post a link in my other thread. Didn't think it would be ok to clog up the tumbling thread with photos! Links should be ok though...going there now to read your advice! Happy new year!
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Post by tntmom on Jan 2, 2011 21:29:05 GMT -5
Robin,
Thanks! I'll keep posting, there's nothing to lose but everything to gain... show your weak points and the experts here will always come through with a solution! I spent a year and a half reading almost every day without posting, RTH has been my home page on my computer for over a year. Realize now that I've gained more in the last couple of months of contributing than I have in the last couple of years of reading!
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Post by tntmom on Jan 2, 2011 23:31:23 GMT -5
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Post by connrock on Jan 3, 2011 10:19:58 GMT -5
I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of with any of these rocks! Something I keep hearing that puzzles me is about having rocks get fractures in them during pre-polish and polish stages. The only time I have seen the action in either of my LOT's is when they didn't have enough rocks in them ,when a spring broke or when the weights in the plastic counter balance wheels were not lined up with each other. These are the only situations I can think of that will cause a violent enough action to cause any sort of fracture and or chip and it's quite noticeable when it happens. Although the action does look "rough' during normal operation,if you put you finger right into the rocks you can see that it is very smooth and that it's just about impossible to have any flaws in the rocks being created in there. I'm starting to think that a lot of these flaws were in the rocks right from the start.Especially with amethyst,smoky quartz,rose quartz and clear quartz. It's VERY difficult to find rough in these type of rocks that don't have internal fractures naturally. You an buy gem quality rough but to buy enough to tumble a load would be very expensive. The only one out of the above that I can think of at the time that can be bought as rough and doesn't cost an arm and a leg is the amethyst and even that can sometimes be a hit and miss situation when buying over the web. I did these as a wedding gift to be used as center pieces and I had to "cull' them very carefully to get the best quality I could for the price,,,,, This is what I started out with and I think it was about 6lbs when I started and only about 4lb when I finished them,,,, This is an exceptional piece of clear quartz I actually self collected in Vermont but it was the ONLY piece I have EVER done that is this clear,,,, Are ABSOLUTELY positive you rough didn't have any flaws before you started polishing it? connrock
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 3, 2011 10:38:02 GMT -5
Yes, I too am surprised by the report of action so violent it is internally cracking the rocks at the polish stage.
Maybe if the barrel was way underfilled, and if there was also a rock much larger than the others, and especially if it happend to a microcrystiline agate - but on the macro crystaline quartz, I think the flaws were there all along.
Chips is another matter. IF you id not see chips after 500 than you do, the only possibilities are that 1) violent action chipped the rocks, 2) the white/finer polish exposed chips the darker/courser grit did not.
You could try to toss you pre-polish rocks in some cornstarch mxture to see if there are any unseen flaws.
keep at it
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Jan 3, 2011 11:42:22 GMT -5
So Connrock, are you using a Lot-O? Got any advice for a Lot-O virgin? Just thinking of buying one now...
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Post by tntmom on Jan 3, 2011 12:25:45 GMT -5
Thanks guys! I can't be 100% sure if the internal fractures happened in the polish but ALL of the chipping did! The stone surfaces were very nice coming out of 1000. The chipping is pretty bad on some rocks (not pits, but broken pieces), especially the smokey. I knew I was in trouble as soon as I started the polish stage as I could "hear" them hitting each other. I didn't hear that in the other stages. After adding a red capfull of water to the load, the sound went back to the normal sound that I have become used to in the last several days. Also, the clanking happened so quickly, even before the laundry soap had a chance to break down with the water. When I get home this afternoon I will take a close up picture of a couple with the worst chips. Maybe by looking at a close up you will see something obvious that I am missing?
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Post by tntmom on Jan 3, 2011 14:24:38 GMT -5
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Post by connrock on Jan 4, 2011 9:21:10 GMT -5
chromenut,, Yes I have 2 Lot-O's and have been running 1 for quite a few years now. The only draw-back I have is that I wish they (Bell Corp) made a bigger model.I say this because I would like to do some bigger slabs that won't fit into the barrel.
They are quiet,very efficient and save a ton on grit and polish.
More and more people seem to be buying them which makes it much easier for all of us to learn how to operate them.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend buying one.
connrock
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Post by connrock on Jan 4, 2011 9:46:34 GMT -5
tntmom,,, By looking at the photos I would say that those chips would have happened in any other stage had they been left in there longer.
I say this because I don't see any "dings" on the surfaces.Again,,,,we're looking at photos,,,,good ones but still photos.
The internal fractures had to be there from the git go.I don't see how they could occur even with the most violent action this unit could produce,,,,,if loaded properly!
The piece in the 2nd photo shows a VERY clean break which to me says that it had a fracture from top to bottom and with just enough vibration was waiting to crack.
Just like cutting a pane of glass.You can run your glass cutting wheel right across it and if you left it to sit on your bench it would not crack.But if you give it a gentle tap across that cut,,,it would crack right along that line.
All of the above being said,I would suspect that your unit is "out of tune" if your rocks aren't turning semi-smooth when you first start up. Yes you will her some rock contact but shouldn't hear a definite clanking-banging(unless you have a small slab or 2 in there). (i'm thinking and typing,,,,,again)LOL
It could very well be those pre-forms that you're hearing making all that noise in there as they "ride" over the top of the load!!!This is both common and normal(especially before grit and or polish is added) and I don't think it has a thing to do with the fractures and or cracks your getting!
99.99% of the rocks came out "flawless" but some of that quartz didn't. Had to be bad rough to begin with and nothin wrong with your unit either.
OK,,,,,,,common,,,,hit with me with somethin here,,,I love it,,,, prove me wrong,,,,I can take it! ;D
connrock
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Post by tntmom on Jan 4, 2011 14:13:49 GMT -5
Hmmmm, that makes sense but now leads me to a brand new question. I want to rerun some of these by themselves with ceramics to fill, would that be futile? If some of this was bad rough, would I just create new chips while smoothing out the old? These stones have me puzzled....
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Post by connrock on Jan 5, 2011 9:00:47 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to take your losses and move on but,,,,,
If you look at the rocks you want to re-do and see if they have cracks that go all the way through you may want to break them up a little more before doing them.
It's really(to me) a tough call because I can't see the rocks but one thing for sure is that it won't hurt to try if you want to spend the time and effort to do them.
I can't tell you how many rocks I have that gave me problems in one way or the other.I have them in jars,plastic bags,clear drinking cups alllllll over the place here. Some I've re-done and they came out great and some I just keep looking at knowing that some day I'll do them over. Some have been used as filler and to my surprise have come out fantastic!!
I KNOW there's answers to these questions but I don't know them! What makes an obsidian run fail and yet when it's thrown in as a filler with agate or jasper it(the obsidian) comes out like glass???
This is contrary to everything we learn about tumbling,,,,NEVER mix different hardness materials!!
I suppose there's an answer out there in the physics and or chemistry of this whole thing but I'm really not all that interested in it.
I just like to tumble rocks with a pinch of this and a pinch of that!
connrock
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Jan 5, 2011 9:53:32 GMT -5
While we're discussing your beautiful but flawed quartz tumble, and Tom's absotively posilutely gorgeous amethyst tumble, thought maybe I'd ask for some more advice. Connrock/TntMom - I'm waiting for delivery of a bunch of tumble rough that I just ordered and wanted to make sure it would be safe in the Lot-O. I haven't gone mohs hunting for all this yet to look at how hard/soft it is, but thought I'd list it here and see what you guys think about tumbling these in the Lot-O. I can tell I'll be okay with the amethyst, but these others I don't know as I've never tumbled them before in anything. - Blue, Green and Orange Calcite
- Citirine
- Bright blue Amazonite
- Teal blue Apetite
- Gorgeous light blue and lavender Flourite
Yes, you can tell I was going for colors, and the price was right, so what the heck. If I can't tumble it, I'll cab it, that's always been my motto! Here's some pictures of what I'm getting: Not sure if it's a good price, but I talked them into $5/lb for this. The girl selling said she'd never do that again, wasn't sure if she was complaining or play-acting. Was that a good price?
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 5, 2011 14:32:23 GMT -5
You might successfully do the calcite and fluorite together, and it might actually shape up in the 120/220.
I think the Apetite is not good for tumbling, but maybe somebody had actual experience.
The amazonite, amethyst, and citrine could go together, but to get a Lot-O (or any vibe) to really shape those pieces, you will need 10 or 12 reloads in the 120/220 initial stage. That's why folks often shape hard rock with 60/90 in a rotary before using a vibe.
Both the citrine and amethyst are macrocrystalline, so be sure to put in plenty of ceramic and to fill the barrel to near the top. Or internal fractures will keep breaking up the stones.
I am not seeing much size range in any of those pictures. All seems kind of medium in the 3/4 to 1" range. You will need lots of stuff in the 1/4" range to balance the load, but it can be mostly ceramic.
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snuffy
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2009
Posts: 4,319
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Post by snuffy on Jan 5, 2011 14:54:50 GMT -5
Robin, those 3 softer ones I'd never mess with again,the calcite,flourite,and apatite. The Rock Shed has special instructions for flourite.Good luck!!To me its like eating chitterlings when you coulda had pork chops.
snuffy
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Jan 5, 2011 17:21:41 GMT -5
Yep, I knew when I ordered it I was getting a broad mixture of soft to hard, and I've ordered a tub of plastic filler X's for the softer stuff and will have to watch that very closely. And Deb you just about got it on the head, it's 3/4" to 1.5" across the board, and mostly cube or oblong cube shaped.
On the apetite, amazonite and calcite, I've bought enough to make sure I can keep back-filling while tumbling but also will be starting it off at 120/220 and not using a coarser grit on it. Buying extra barrels just for the softer stuff.
I'm so excited, can't wait to get this started, be my first adventure with the vibe tumbler. I actually have had one of the Chicago Tools vibe tumblers for almost three years but it's only been out of it's box to look at it, never been used. Looks like a good knock-off of the UV 10, but I've heard negative things about it so have never tried it. Going to keep it for doing silver polishing now. I hear it works great for that.
Anyway, thanks so much for the words of advice, I'm totally jazzed to get this started! Can't wait to see the truck back up in my driveway with all this stone....
oops, I just realized I hijacked this thread! Sorry bout that!
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Post by tntmom on Jan 6, 2011 1:41:59 GMT -5
Robin,
No worries from me!!! Can't wait to see your first batch! I decided to redo the ones that didn't turn out. Started them yesterday. Guessing it might take a week of recharging in the 120/220 to get the chips fully smoothed out, but that's fine. While it's going I think I will play around with wrapping some of the successful preforms that came out. I'll tell ya though, not sure if it's the tumbler or the soap thing or what, but the glass finish came out amazing!
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