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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 14, 2014 10:34:24 GMT -5
I've been quiet because I have been spending my free time with the torch. I worked on a larger stone for my second project. 40x22mm. Ran into lots of trouble that I directly associate with the torch not being big enough. I'm looking at propane/air or acetylene/air. Too bad Blazer It was fun while it lasted. Although you do try your best, you just couldn't keep up. I'll stick to smaller projects for now.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 14, 2014 10:57:41 GMT -5
There are places that it is the perfect torch for and nothing else will do.
Back in 1955 Bob Rollins taught me with his acetylene/air torch.
I made my first private attempts using all I could afford - an alcohol lamp and a blow pipe that I was using to identify minerals for my geology classes. Small pieces and soft solder did the trick.
I finally graduated to a 1# Bernzomatic Propane torch and it was night and day easier!
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jan 14, 2014 11:15:34 GMT -5
when I took lessons last year from a local metalsmith, she had me buy a plumber's torch with acetylyene/air and it works well. There are 5 different sized tips for it and the few attempts I made I was able to do what I wanted.
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 14, 2014 11:15:53 GMT -5
propane is cleaner, but will diffuse more heat through the piece - which can change metal composition at the surface. acetylene will need more careful fluxing, but it is hotter and does not mess around. I used oxygen/propane with my Smith Small Torch. But I was putting too much heat into the piece and getting some surface damage. (This torch really is for special jobs like soldering a post on ear ring. But with skill you can make it do in a lot of situation. Maybe I did not have enough skill.) after some searching I found best Smith air/acetylene prices here: search.cyberweld.com/mod_search/?formSubmitted=true&vwcatalog=cyberweld&query=smith+air+acetylene&x=0&y=0I already had dual-fuel regulator from my Smith "Small Torch" kit. I got an NEA180A torch, hose, and tips in 00,1,2. I figured I did not need #3, and could skip #0 if I had 00 and 1. I bough a used bottle on ebay because the local fill station swaps bottles. (But it was only about $20 cheaper than new bottle for cyberweld). Name Code Qty Each Options ------------------------------------------------------------ Smith Torch Handle - NE180A 1 35.40 NE180A Smith Air/Acetylene NE1800 1 24.80 Soldering Tip - NE180-0 Smith Air/Acetylene NE1801 1 21.35 Soldering Tip - NE180-1 Smith Air/Acetylene NE1802 1 21.35 Soldering Tip - NE180-2 Smith Acetylene Hose - RL121 1 12.50 Subtotal 115.40 Shipping 0.00 Tax 0.00 Total 115.40
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jan 14, 2014 11:19:11 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 14, 2014 11:50:10 GMT -5
AWESOME! Thank you guys. I knew I'd get some good advice. deb193redux I'm really leaning on this torch. Thanks for pointing out that site. herchenx I think the only thing that makes me think twice about a big box plumbing torch is that I don't know if I can get a small enough flame for delicate work. I have a big propane plumbers torch- the screw on head type- and the flame is really, really big despite it being smaller than other brands. Someone else pointed out the Hot Max, and had good things to say, but again, I wonder how small I can really work. Can you solder a post on an earring? Could you do filigree with wires?
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jan 14, 2014 12:12:48 GMT -5
I doubt I could solder a copper plate to a copper wire personally, but I doubt that this torch will work for very fine detail, but I am not the one to correctly answer that question.
The teacher (a professional metalsmith) seemed to think this setup was good for all but the finest work. I soldered a 1.5mm bezel wire with it with no problem though.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 14, 2014 13:32:48 GMT -5
I doubt I could solder a copper plate to a copper wire personally, but I doubt that this torch will work for very fine detail, but I am not the one to correctly answer that question. The teacher (a professional metalsmith) seemed to think this setup was good for all but the finest work. I soldered a 1.5mm bezel wire with it with no problem though. OK, thanks for the input. Since I know I want to do some fine work, the Smith torch is looking better. deb193redux I saw on the site where you can buy a tank to exchange. Can you get disposable acetylene at the big box stores? I didn't see any on websites, but they couldn't ship it so ... What is an approximate cost of your exchange and how long do you think it would last under hobby conditions? I know those are loaded questions, I'm just looking for ballpark figures.
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 14, 2014 14:39:38 GMT -5
I got the size 40 for about $75 incl shipping. I think I paid $38 for local fill/swap. I have only used it a few times, but this same size tank lasts the local arts center for more then one semester. they have several gas torches in addition however.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 14, 2014 14:51:44 GMT -5
I got the size 40 for about $75 incl shipping. I think I paid $38 for local fill/swap. I have only used it a few times, but this same size tank lasts the local arts center for more then one semester. they have several gas torches in addition however. Thanks, that helps. At the link you posted, I can get the Handy Heet kit, 0 tip, 00 tip and acetylene tank for 312. Not too bad, at all. They are much cheaper than everyone else.
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 14, 2014 15:38:18 GMT -5
and usually with free shipping
if you need regulator, that kit is a goodprice
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Post by radio on Jan 15, 2014 10:06:46 GMT -5
If you get a Smith LT, be sure and get the kit with the various tips sized 3 through 7. For 90 percent of my work I use the #6 tip but it is nice to have the others when smaller or larger flame is needed Gentec also makes a decent torch and is a bit less than the Smith www.torchtools.com/GENTEC_Jewelry_Torch_Kits.htm not necessarily recommending this site, but they have the complete line of gentec so you can compare I have used the model 10 ST in the past and was very happy with it. The Smith LT is lighter weight so that is the only reason I set the Gentec aside and keep it set up at a second station for teaching
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 15, 2014 10:19:19 GMT -5
The Smith LT is the Little Torch that I was saying did not perform so well for me on the range of things I wanted to do - especially annealing for fold forming.
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Post by radio on Jan 15, 2014 10:50:15 GMT -5
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Post by connrock on Jan 15, 2014 11:10:23 GMT -5
I posted this somewhere here before but it may help a little here too. I personally watched Richard use this torch and it's all he uses for his work. He uses the plumbers B tank acetylene/air torch and I think he uses a #3 tip,,,but I can't really remember which tip.You can see the torch in his left hand on the photo of the home page,,, If you look at his work you can see that he does some fairly "delicate" "small" work with this torch,,,, www.littlesilvershop.com/about_us.htmI have 1 of these torches and 3 B tanks but after trying to use one I gave up and bought Smith's Little torch oxy/acet.I use the acet/air torch with a big tip for annealing bigger pieces of copper cuz the Little Torch doesn't put out enough. I said it before,,,it's personal preference. connrock
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 15, 2014 11:45:05 GMT -5
I got the 4 burner tip for the Smith LT and it helped a bit. More skill would have helped too. For example, when trying to use the Smith LT with oxy/propane to make balls on 16ga wire, I had trouble. A lot of this was my depth perception and not getting the work in just the right part of the flame - but the 4-7 tips on the LT do put out a longish flame. The very short flame on an air/acetylene torch helped me a quite a bit.
The Orca seems to be a version of EZ-Torch. The prices seem good. I may get one of these eventually, as a 3rd torch. I am going to try to work mainly with the air/acetylene from Smith. I have the Smith LT as a backup. I still have the Oxy tank, and I have a y-valve on the acetylene tank, so I can have both at once. I still have the propane tank I used for oxy/propane with Smith LT, so I can use this tank for Orca or EZ or whatever.
There is some personal preference. There is some of one torch able to do more with greater skill in placement and reading the temperature of the metal. I also assume that it is high time I just put in the hours and stopped buying more torches.
Still the Smith air/acetylene is not a bad way to go.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 15, 2014 14:02:02 GMT -5
I also assume that it is high time I just put in the hours and stopped buying more torches. You made me smile. After doing so much research and looking at so many torches... I just feel like I should get one and stop procrastinating.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 15, 2014 14:04:31 GMT -5
Here's a Rio Grand vid of the Smith's Silver Smith torch (Handi Heet) in case any lurkers want to see it.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 15, 2014 14:10:17 GMT -5
Thanks you guys -all- for joining in the conversation. I have carefully thought about what y'all have posted and have checked the links. I think I pretty much have my heart set on the Smith's Acetylene/Air torch (Handi Heet, Silver Smith). After viewing the video, it seems the small tip will work for most small applications. I didn't realize before seeing the vid that it needs burn all the way open. I wish it were adjustable, but I guess I can't have everything. I decided to go with Smith because of the name recognition and trust.
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